Gonzo Contract Poll

[mgteich]

Don't just offer it: stick to it. He would net a great deal in a trade. In my mind, there are incipient questions about his physical fragility, his attitude, his toughness: enough to give one pause, but not enough that he won't yield a huge haul in a trade. I don't think we need be at all squeamish about including the trade option in our thinking. If it becomes clear Gonzo is convinced that his compensation ought be at the top of all defensive players irrespective of position rather than at the top of the CB pay scale (my vote: $32.5-35 million) there's no reason to dally-dally. Trade the fragile beast. Top-rank CB's are rare, but very good, serviceable ones are not. It ain't "Apres Gonzo, le deluge." It's "Apres Gonzo, a suitable if lesser alternative." Pick a price and have the Moxie to stick to it.

Trade him and start Woods at corner this year? ROFL

 

[Thelonious]

Trade him and start Woods at corner this year? ROFL

I was unaware Woods is the only conceivable option. If you have an actual, honest argument in reponse to what I actually said, let's hear it.

 

[TommyD4207]

I was unaware Woods is the only conceivable option. If you have an actual, honest argument in reponse to what I actually said, let's hear it.

You brought it up.

@mgteich 's point is 100% accurate. Gonzalez' backup is Woods. Moving an aging (and misses 2-3 snaps per game) Carlton Davis to CB1.

What's your plan? What are the conceivable options? Try to be a bit more specific than 'bring in a guy'. Thanks in advance.

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[Water Boy]

Just curious, there was a big contingent of folks who think a 2028 first round pick for AJB was a massive overpay.

If Gonzo could fetch 2 first rounders plus save 35-40 million against the cap where is your head on that?

 

[TommyD4207]

Just curious, there was a big contingent of folks who think a 2028 first round pick for AJB was a massive overpay.

If Gonzo could fetch 2 first rounders plus save 35-40 million against the cap where is your head on that?

Who. Are. You. Replacing. A. Top. 3. Corner. In. The. League. With?

 

[Give Kraft A Hand]

They have to keep him this year. The only trade that would have been viable but still would have screwed them in the secondary was Gonzo and picks for Myles Garrett. Now that he’s off the board you have to keep him, at least for this year. Next year? Different story. I’m sure they’ll work out some kind of deal.

 

[Thelonious]

You brought it up.

@mgteich 's point is 100% accurate. Gonzalez' backup is Woods. Moving an aging (and misses 2-3 snaps per game) Carlton Davis to CB1.

What's your plan? What are the conceivable options? Try to be a bit more specific than 'bring in a guy'. Thanks in advance.

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There will be a variety of opportunities to pick up players at all positions, CB included, before the season. The specifics are - obviously - not yet available as to what options might emerge. The plan would be to evaluate what we have, determine our needs based on that evaluation, and look for the best alternatives: viatrade, other teams' castoffs, and so on. There is huge turnover in the league between now and the season. If we move on from Gonzo, we will not in the short term acquire a player of equivalent worth - again, obviously - but we WILL have the very considerable return for trading him. No honest analysis will ignore this fact. The question is at what point that compensation is of greater value than the loss of the player. In my view, as I have said, and explained at some length, that is around $32.5-35Million. Perhaps you disagree with that number: fine, make your case; but to imply that Woods or any other player is the only option and that the sky will certainly fall if we bid Gonzo farewell is just silly.

 

[TommyD4207]

There will be a variety of opportunities to pick up players at all positions, CB included, before the season. The specifics are - obviously - not yet available as to what options might emerge. The plan would be to evaluate what we have, determine our needs based on that evaluation, and look for the best alternatives: viatrade, other teams' castoffs, and so on. There is huge turnover in the league between now and the season. If we move on from Gonzo, we will not in the short term acquire a player of equivalent worth - again, obviously - but we WILL have the very considerable return for trading him. No honest analysis will ignore this fact. The question is at what point that compensation is of greater value than the loss of the player. In my view, as I have said, and explained at some length, that is around $32.5-35Million. Perhaps you disagree with that number: fine, make your case; but to imply that Woods or any other player is the only option and that the sky will certainly fall if we bid Gonzo farewell is just silly.

I don't disagree with the number. I think it will be a bargain three years into his contract, when we have a perennial all-pro corner still in his prime, locking down half the field. He's done that, and proven it on the biggest stages.

Replacing that with Woods, or whatever veteran cast-offs will be available after camp cuts, would significantly harm what would otherwise very likely be the best secondary in the entire league.

And for what?

 

[Thelonious]

I don't disagree with the number. I think it will be a bargain three years into his contract, when we have a perennial all-pro corner still in his prime, locking down half the field. He's done that, and proven it on the biggest stages.

Replacing that with Woods, or whatever veteran cast-offs will be available after camp cuts, would significantly harm what would otherwise very likely be the best secondary in the entire league.

And for what?

I agree. It will "significantly harm" the secondary. But one cannot ignore the offsetting gain which the return in trading him would certainly yield. All I am saying is that in thinking about the matter comprehensively - taking into account both what is lost and what is gained - there is a number at which trading him is the wiser course. I put that number at 32.5-35 (the highest number in the poll). Above that number, in my mind, and I assume in the minds of others who chose it, trading him is the better option, I guess if someone who chose that number disagrees with this, then he should have chosen a higher number, and I think there is actually a pretty good case for choosing that higher number, depending on how great you think the damage in losing him would be, but again if that's how you feel, then you really should be picking a higher number. Even as high as 40 is not outrageous, but the X-factor is that with a likely 70-million hit coming to sign Drake, and with a few other signings we will likely (hopefully!) want to be making down the line, 40 million for a CB begins to look excessive.

It's a good problem to have, really, because the two possible outcomes are either a really good corner, or a big fat bag of picks. I suppose it depends on whether one places a hgiher value on the present roster or on future ones, a matter of taste, I suppose, or of temperament.

 

[Thelonious]

Just curious, there was a big contingent of folks who think a 2028 first round pick for AJB was a massive overpay.

If Gonzo could fetch 2 first rounders plus save 35-40 million against the cap where is your head on that?

Unless Gonzo is very reasonable in his demands -no higher than 35M, if that - I think that would work. FWIW, while I don't think the AJB deal was a "massive overpay," I do think the price was too high for reasons I have laid out elsewhere and that this team is not yet rebuilt sufficiently for such a "final piece' move. This team, minus Gonzo, with two first-rounders in the back pocket is a distinctly better team than what we have now. I hope two firsts would be the return for Gonzo. It's not at all unreasonable, but not every team is in a position to spend that much draft capital. Maybe the Jets would go for it, if that wouldn't be too cruel for Gonzo. Theyy're liable to do just about anything.

 

[Huckleberry1]

No doubt. When you are talking about a contract of this magnitude, though, durability has to be a consideration.

He's played 34 of his last 38 games. And he played 30-31 games in college. Other than missing much of his rookie season with a shoulder injury he has been on the field for the vast majority of his college and pro career.

 

[Zuma]

I always chuckle when I read “the only course of action” type of posts. The fact of the matter is their are half a dozen options in this instance and over the next 6 months to years…the priority of them will change.

 

[Vindicate]

This team, minus Gonzo, with two first-rounders in the back pocket is a distinctly better team than what we have now.

You cannot speak on the quality from two first round picks before they have happened. It's just as easy for me to say "those picks very well could produce mediocre or average starters at best", showing that this is just not a viable argument. Replace "better" with "different" and that's about it.

What we do know is that Gonzalez is already looking like a perennial all-pro at one of the most important positions in modern football. He can play between both man and zone. He is scrappy and dedicated. But couching an argument in assumption isn't a strong one.

 

[JoeSixPat]

The top 3 paid CBs are at $30-$31 million. I think $32 million average per year gets this done but it depends on how much guaranteed money there is.

Even there, Sauce Gardner's contract isn't one he wants to emulate as there were a few "outs" for him to be traded (as he was) or cut later in the contract.

Some of this comes down to bragging rights - Sauce wanted a big number on paper but he may not see it all. Gonzo should want something that is less easy to cut.

 

[Real fan 02]

Stingley, however, just redid his contract to lower the cap number.

In return, they fully guaranteed the entire contract to 2029. $90 million guaranteed.

That's going to have a huge impact in these negotiations, especially since Gonzo has missed a few games to injuries.

Gonzo's annual number may be lower but his guaranteed money is what will matter as we all know.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

Sauce doesn't tackle.
That was a massive OverPay.

Jus sayin'

 

[mgteich]

I think the decision by the team was made months ago, before free agency and the draft. The options were very different for the team.

At that point, one could certainly argue that what Gonzo wanted was to much. In that case, at very least we would have added a couple of players from free agency and the draft. Then, we could balance the stepdown from Gonzo to a reasonable albeit much, much weaker alternative.

Now the situation is different. If we trade Gonzo now, the alternative choices in player(s) is much more limited and almost assuredly weaker.

I expect that the contract will be signed during camp. There is little rush; Gonzo doesn't need the reps.

 

[Thelonious]

You cannot speak on the quality from two first round picks before they have happened. It's just as easy for me to say "those picks very well could produce mediocre or average starters at best", showing that this is just not a viable argument. Replace "better" with "different" and that's about it.

What we do know is that Gonzalez is already looking like a perennial all-pro at one of the most important positions in modern football. He can play between both man and zone. He is scrappy and dedicated. But couching an argument in assumption isn't a strong one.

Please. That's ridiculous. OF COURSE, you cannot know what the value of a specific draftee is before he is drafted, but the value of a #1 draft pick is a bknown thing, necessarily, universally taken into account by every GM on every team, every year. That value is even quantifiable per the several draft value charts. We certainly know that the #1 pick is the most valuable pick in any draft. I suppose I might point out that you don't know the value of Gonzo going forward, but I won't because unlike you at least in this instance, I'll stick to serious arguments.

 

[Vindicate]

Please. That's ridiculous. OF COURSE, you cannot know what the value of a specific draftee is before he is drafted, but the value of a #1 draft pick is a bknown thing, necessarily, universally taken into account by every GM on every team, every year. That value is even quantifiable per the several draft value charts. We certainly know that the #1 pick is the most valuable pick in any draft. I suppose I might point out that you don't know the value of Gonzo going forward, but I won't because unlike you at least in this instance, I'll stick to serious arguments.

Bloviating while dodging what I said. Got it.

 

[jdlboot14]

Why should a team pay ~$30M more than it needs to by signing a player in his 4th year?
This is the benefit of drafting well - you're supposed to get good performance from a 1st round player for 4 years.
There is no reason to sign a longterm deal this year. Sure, it sucks for Gonzo, or any player who is a top 10 at their position while still on a rookie deal. But, if he wants to sit out to force a top 2 or 3 contract, then so be it. He's making $4.8M this year.
Prove you're a top 5 CB, stay healthy - and you'll get a HUGE deal with massive GTD.