PATRIOTS NEWS Gronk elected to Pats Hall of Fame

[maust]

Russ was not elite imo, but very good.

agree or not, who do you have as #4 for the all time TE's for the Pats?

Russ Francis was absolutely elite for his era when TE's were more an extension of the O-line than downfield receivers IMO. He blocked downfield with violence and authority. To see Gray fire forward and cut off half the D, Hannah pull to clear the second level and fold it back while Francis destroyed leakers or continued downfield to blow up hapless d-backs ahead of the runner was to to witness a thing of pure football beauty. Gives me a warm glow just remembering it all these years later.

Thinking for body of work with the Pats 4 is a tough call, with the murderer excluded for obvious reasosns. Watson vs Henry, I'd give the nod to Watson as the superior blocker but I couldn't argue with someone saying Henry has the better hands between them.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Thinking for body of work with the Pats 4 is a tough call, with the murderer excluded for obvious reasosns. Watson vs Henry, I'd give the nod to Watson as the superior blocker but I couldn't argue with someone saying Henry has the better hands between them.

I'm not saying that they're on the level to be number 4, but I really enjoyed Graham and Bennett when they played here as TEs.

 

[maust]

I'm not saying that they're on the level to be number 4, but I really enjoyed Graham and Bennett when they played here as TEs.

Bennett was a hella contributor to the 2016 team and Graham's decade here was a solid TE. I'd probably put Whelan ahead of either of them myself but he was before a lot of folks time and the game was different then. It was primarily about blocking then, they took a beating. If a TE scored 4-5 TD's in the 60's he was tearing it up

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Greatest TE in NFL history. At the end of the day, Gronk blocked like an OT, and was so dominant as a pass catcher. Everyone is compared to Gronk, but nobody ever did it better.

Kittle is the only TE who is anything like Gronk

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Marv Cook coulda been something if he had stayed free of injury. He was already a two-time Pro Bowler by the time Bledsoe was drafted. But, to be fair, injuries to Cook allowed Bledsoe time to develop chemistry with Coates.

 

[Vindicate]

Quite literally the best of all time at his position. I think it'll be a very long time before we see a TE that blocks and receives like he did. It takes a lot of risk to do what he did. A healthy Gronk was one of the most unfair advantages an offense could have in the NFL. I got a little annoyed how he ended his career here, but I think even he now admits he was a bit of an ass at that time.

We got, with the BB/Brady era:

GOAT TE
GOAT slot receiver
GOAT QB
Most talented receiver of all time in Moss.
A TE who would've challenged and probably beaten out best pure receiving TE in Hernandez if uhhh... Yeah.
GOAT coach.

Goddamn that's sick lmao. I love being an NE fan and very happy my family is from the area so I can be a true fan by extension lol.

 

[DarrylS]

Russ Francis was absolutely elite for his era when TE's were more an extension of the O-line than downfield receivers IMO. He blocked downfield with violence and authority. To see Gray fire forward and cut off half the D, Hannah pull to clear the second level and fold it back while Francis destroyed leakers or continued downfield to blow up hapless d-backs ahead of the runner was to to witness a thing of pure football beauty. Gives me a warm glow just remembering it all these years later.

Thinking for body of work with the Pats 4 is a tough call, with the murderer excluded for obvious reasosns. Watson vs Henry, I'd give the nod to Watson as the superior blocker but I couldn't argue with someone saying Henry has the better hands between them.

Agree completely, Francis was a harbinger of what tight ends would look like in the future. Although his stats pale in comparison to today's elite TE's he was a force to be reckoned with. In those up and down Pats days he gave us hope.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FranRu00.htm

 

[rkarp1]

I thought Francis made some wow plays, and was that rare player in those days that combined elite size with elite athleticism.
for me, what separates Gronk and Coates from Russ, was that Gronk and Coates showed that elite level every week. With Russ, we got flashes.
I also thought Russ's priorities were not always football first, and again, it showed up on the field, with him flashing rather than being play after play elite. We saw Russ retire after only a few years, at a very young age. I actually thought he was a better player in SF than he was in NE.
but, he is #3 on my list for all time Pats TE. However, Henry is very close to #3 over Russ.

Watson was also an elite athletic/size combo. He too played better after leaving NE and Brady. at age 35, Watson had 110 targets. 74 rcpts. 6 td's. 42 1st downs. he put up similar stats at age 37.

 

[scott99]

I thought Francis made some wow plays, and was that rare player in those days that combined elite size with elite athleticism.
for me, what separates Gronk and Coates from Russ, was that Gronk and Coates showed that elite level every week. With Russ, we got flashes.
I also thought Russ's priorities were not always football first, and again, it showed up on the field, with him flashing rather than being play after play elite. We saw Russ retire after only a few years, at a very young age. I actually thought he was a better player in SF than he was in NE.
but, he is #3 on my list for all time Pats TE. However, Henry is very close to #3 over Russ.

Watson was also an elite athletic/size combo. He too played better after leaving NE and Brady. at age 35, Watson had 110 targets. 74 rcpts. 6 td's. 42 1st downs. he put up similar stats at age 37.

Let’s not forget, Francis played for one of the greatest run offenses ever. Extremely run heavy. So with him, it wasn’t only just about stats, but he was a helluva pass catching TE when thrown to. Also an excellent blocker for that run heavy offense.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Cosell, at least, seemed impressed with Francis, calling him an All World Tight End.

 

[DarrylS]

I thought Francis made some wow plays, and was that rare player in those days that combined elite size with elite athleticism.
for me, what separates Gronk and Coates from Russ, was that Gronk and Coates showed that elite level every week. With Russ, we got flashes.
I also thought Russ's priorities were not always football first, and again, it showed up on the field, with him flashing rather than being play after play elite. We saw Russ retire after only a few years, at a very young age. I actually thought he was a better player in SF than he was in NE.
but, he is #3 on my list for all time Pats TE. However, Henry is very close to #3 over Russ.

Watson was also an elite athletic/size combo. He too played better after leaving NE and Brady. at age 35, Watson had 110 targets. 74 rcpts. 6 td's. 42 1st downs. he put up similar stats at age 37.

The flashes may have been due to Grogan who threw more Int's than TD'(208 to 192).... in 16 years he averaged a 52.3% completion rate..
But those were different times it is difficult to difficult to apply today's metrics to those days... without regard in those days when Francis played we were amazed at his abilities at TE, Howard Cosell's anointment of him as "all world" added to the hype.

 

[scott99]

The flashes may have been due to Grogan who threw more Int's than TD'(208 to 192).... in 16 years he averaged a 52.3% completion rate..
But those were different times it is difficult to difficult to apply today's metrics to those days... without regard in those days when Francis played we were amazed at his abilities at TE, Howard Cosell's anointment of him as "all world" added to the hype.

Correctly hyped. He was the best Pat’s TE until Coates and Gronk showed up.

 

[rkarp1]

I have him at #3

Correctly hyped. He was the best Pat’s TE until Coates and Gronk showed up.

I have him at #3, albeit barely, behind Gronk and Coates as well

 

[Rob0729]

Gronk deserves to get in for sure, but I am a little disappointed that Vinatieri got passed over for him to go in this year. Both are arguably the greatest at their position of all time, but Vinatieri has had more historic moments for this team.

 

[captain stone]

Not a surprise.

Rob Gronkowski Voted by Fans into Patriots Hall of Fame

Congratulations Gronk. Very well-deserved.

The other two? As I stated in another thread, they can ****. Off.

#JuliusAdamsForNEPHOF

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Gronk deserves to get in for sure, but I am a little disappointed that Vinatieri got passed over for him to go in this year. Both are arguably the greatest at their position of all time, but Vinatieri has had more historic moments for this team.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Devin McCourty should be next

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Russ Francis was absolutely elite for his era when TE's were more an extension of the O-line than downfield receivers IMO. He blocked downfield with violence and authority. To see Gray fire forward and cut off half the D, Hannah pull to clear the second level and fold it back while Francis destroyed leakers or continued downfield to blow up hapless d-backs ahead of the runner was to to witness a thing of pure football beauty. Gives me a warm glow just remembering it all these years later.

Thinking for body of work with the Pats 4 is a tough call, with the murderer excluded for obvious reasosns. Watson vs Henry, I'd give the nod to Watson as the superior blocker but I couldn't argue with someone saying Henry has the better hands between them.

That 1978 team rushed for nearly 200 yards a game, 3125 yards, a record for 40 years. There were times they would run the same play 10 times in a row on a drive down the field as the defense couldn't stop it.

 

[rkarp1]

That 1978 team rushed for nearly 200 yards a game, 3125 yards, a record for 40 years. There were times they would run the same play 10 times in a row on a drive down the field as the defense couldn't stop it.

wasn't the reason for that because they had a wildly inaccurate QB that would complete only 50% of his pass attempts?
part of that rushing attack included Grogan rushing for over 500 yards

 

[BennyBledsoe]

QB standards have changed a LOT even since I've been around.

Let me give you a 'for instance'... Steve Young was considered one of the most efficient and accurate QBs to ever play the game.

Now? Tied for 12th with Kirk Cousins, Jared Goff, and Jordan Love.

When he retired in 1999, Young was #1. Montana was #2. Montana is now 27th. -EVERY other QB that has filled in those slots since didn't start play until the 21st century.

Even Tom is only 10th.

Dan Marino? Tied for 51st with Jacoby Brissett. Jim Kelly? 65th.

Most QBs that played in Grogan's era rarely got into the 80s for QB rating.

If you could have a 2:1 TD to interception ratio, you were pretty good.

Grogan's QB Rating was 69.6, which was right in line for his era. Bradshaw and Namath were in this neighborhood.

I've watched a fair amount of games from that era and the announcers never seemed to be overly concerned when guys were tossing up multiple interceptions a game.

Just to give historical perspective