Patriots Pregame Thread Pats-Ratbirds thread

[jdlboot14]

My prediction:

Landry retires
Chaisson re-signed
Tonga re-signed
Barmore re-structuring or traded
Diggs remains
Henry extended
Wilson moves to C
LG, RG drafted
Drafting premium Pass rushers in rounds 1&2 and wherever you can find them in the draft...
Vrabel will also add at WR by trade

Agree with most of that. I think Onwenu will stay one more year on his contract. Especially with the assumption that Bryant takes over at RT and we'll need a new LG - (bonus if Wallace can turn out, or a legit FA)
But EDGE needs a major upgrade - not even sure about Chaisson.
It'd be nice to keep Barmore & Williams another year.
Certainly WR help. I think Hollins & Pop get upgraded. Hope Kyle can take a major jump, keep Boutte & Diggs.
TE needs to be one of our first 3 picks (and/or swing for Pitts or Likely) - we need a dominator there.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I admire your confidence.. as you should be.. top 5 Defense and the best record in the NFL... my prediction is Josh Allen has to come to Denver and you guys will get some revenge..

Then again part of me wants another shot at him In Foxboro round 3... AFCCG

Lmao

 

[Huckleberry1]

Agree with most of that. I think Onwenu will stay one more year on his contract. Especially with the assumption that Bryant takes over at RT and we'll need a new LG - (bonus if Wallace can turn out, or a legit FA)
But EDGE needs a major upgrade - not even sure about Chaisson.
It'd be nice to keep Barmore & Williams another year.
Certainly WR help. I think Hollins & Pop get upgraded. Hope Kyle can take a major jump, keep Boutte & Diggs.
TE needs to be one of our first 3 picks (and/or swing for Pitts or Likely) - we need a dominator there.

They are going to have to develop pass rushers because there isn't an answer in free agency, and like Left Tackle teams aren't going to let the good ones get away. Hopefully they can develop guys like Ponder and Swinson, and the ones they bring in through the 26' draft. As much I am OL fixated Edge is ther biggest need. Their interior ass rush is good, especially when Williams is healthy, but they have to get more out of Edge.

 

[denverpatsfan]

I admire your confidence.. as you should be.. top 5 Defense and the best record in the NFL... my prediction is Josh Allen has to come to Denver and you guys will get some revenge..

Then again part of me wants another shot at him In Foxboro round 3... AFCCG

Yes there is a scenario where the Pats avoid Houston.
Shades of 1996 when Jax beat Denver in Denver. Opened the path for the Pats to host AFCCG.
That would be amazing

 

[Huckleberry1]

Bills got no shot here in Denver.
Houston could win an ugly game here gor sure.
It's Nix and Peyton's conference to lose now.
Eagles-Donks
Book it and God save us

Reading your posts I have thought for some time that you are more of a Bronco's fan than a Patriots fan, reading 02's response to you confirms that, where he thought he was responding to a Bronco's fan and wished you luck in the playoffs.

 

[Real fan 02]

Yes there is a scenario where the Pats avoid Houston.
Shades of 1996 when Jax beat Denver in Denver. Opened the path for the Pats to host AFCCG.
That would be amazing

Yes I remember that... part of me wants the challenge of having to best a tough opponent like say Houston.. this team is battle tested on the road.. we are the only nfl team thst can say they are undefeated on the road.. I'd also made mention that I seem to enjoy watching us on the road more than I do at Gillette.. for some reason Gillette doesn't seem to give me the " home field advantage vibes" It once did. However I believe we remain in the 2 spot..

 

[Real fan 02]

Agree with most of that. I think Onwenu will stay one more year on his contract. Especially with the assumption that Bryant takes over at RT and we'll need a new LG - (bonus if Wallace can turn out, or a legit FA)
But EDGE needs a major upgrade - not even sure about Chaisson.
It'd be nice to keep Barmore & Williams another year.
Certainly WR help. I think Hollins & Pop get upgraded. Hope Kyle can take a major jump, keep Boutte & Diggs.
TE needs to be one of our first 3 picks (and/or swing for Pitts or Likely) - we need a dominator there.

Great minds think alike.. my wide receiver and TE expert PatsFan2 would be a happy man to see your post...

TE absolutely.. Kyle Pitts or likely I'll take.. Henry likely remains on a 3 year extension.. he's still got a few more years in him..

To correct myself.. I like Barmore i believe he has shown previously he can be. Dominant force..I just don't think he's the same player.. not sure if he's hurt or ect.

Vrabel likely restructure his current deal and gives him some additional upfront $$ to motivate him.

Hollins is on a 2yr deal so he will be here in a role specific spot. Pop... yeah if he does remain it will be on a team friendly deal..

Diggs absolutely..
I too have Wallace remaining and likely at LG..

The major needs is edge rush.. it's a glaring obvious weakness it's keeping the defense back from reaching it's full potential.

 

[denverpatsfan]

Reading your posts I have thought for some time that you are more of a Bronco's fan than a Patriots fan, reading 02's response to you confirms that, where he thought he was responding to a Bronco's fan and wished you luck in the playoffs.

I'm a lifelong Pats fan. I do follow the local team and attend 1 game per year. I never supported the Manning Broncos. I rewatched that Seahawks demolition of the Broncos the week afterwards.
I was enjoying the Donks season here until they took over the sole possession of the #1 seed.
If the Pats somehow play here in January I'll be at the game with my Pats jersey on.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I'm a lifelong Pats fan. I do follow the local team and attend 1 game per year. I never supported the Manning Broncos. I rewatched that Seahawks demolition of the Broncos the week afterwards.
I was enjoying the Donks season here until they took over the sole possession of the #1 seed.
If the Pats somehow play here in January I'll be at the game with my Pats jersey on.

I know, you have been here for as long as I can remember, I just thought it was funny that 02' wished you luck in the playoffs.

 

[Real fan 02]

Agree with most of that. I think Onwenu will stay one more year on his contract. Especially with the assumption that Bryant takes over at RT and we'll need a new LG - (bonus if Wallace can turn out, or a legit FA)
But EDGE needs a major upgrade - not even sure about Chaisson.
It'd be nice to keep Barmore & Williams another year.
Certainly WR help. I think Hollins & Pop get upgraded. Hope Kyle can take a major jump, keep Boutte & Diggs.
TE needs to be one of our first 3 picks (and/or swing for Pitts or Likely) - we need a dominator there.

Also started to wonder do we have a problem at drafting edge rushers??

 

[Brady to Maye]

Game weirdly doesn't matter a ton for playoff scenarios purposes, but I'd really like to see us come with something to prove. Come hitting hard like we did vs Giants.

Run defense rebound in a big way.

Not a ton? The most important thing is that if the Patriots win out for the season and win the division. If they win out and Denver loses at least one game they still could get the #1 seed.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

Not a ton? The most important thing is that if the Patriots win out for the season and win the division. If they win out and Denver loses at least one game they still could get the #1 seed.

I believe conference record wise we have to outright have more wins than Denver

 

[slash83]

I believe conference record wise we have to outright have more wins than Denver

True, Denver owns every tie breaker over NE.

 

[goheels22002]

Also started to wonder do we have a problem at drafting edge rushers??

Not really - lots of good rushers have been drafted over the years, but in years when the Patriots draft above 15 they have had bigger needs than edge rusher. It's also one of those situations where they have lots of hybrid edge/lb players who moved around in Belichick defenses and didn't rely one or two guys to bring pressure. Willie McGinest and Donta Hightower who came off the edge when needed but could also play in the middle or any gap, really. Strictly edge rushers are a luxury, in my opinion, but they need to be elite at beating bigger tackles. It's a specialty position. I'd always rather have the most versatile sideline to sideline tackler get drafted high unless the pick is for an interior DL run stopper who commands a double team.

 

[Gumby]

True, Denver owns every tie breaker over NE.

All 3 of our losses were to AFC teams. Both theirs were also AFC. Both teams only play AFC to finish.

—-> Conf record is a wash w overall record. It means the same thing.

Next tiebreaker is common opponents. They beat everybody we played w even Faiders 2x. Next 3 are not teams we played. So, Regardless batting 1.000 beats anything less.; and we can never catch them in this category.

 

[Real fan 02]

Not really - lots of good rushers have been drafted over the years, but in years when the Patriots draft above 15 they have had bigger needs than edge rusher. It's also one of those situations where they have lots of hybrid edge/lb players who moved around in Belichick defenses and didn't rely one or two guys to bring pressure. Willie McGinest and Donta Hightower who came off the edge when needed but could also play in the middle or any gap, really. Strictly edge rushers are a luxury, in my opinion, but they need to be elite at beating bigger tackles. It's a specialty position. I'd always rather have the most versatile sideline to sideline tackler get drafted high unless the pick is for an interior DL run stopper who commands a double team.

So to my recollection post Willie Mcginest...

2001 Seymour DE
2002 Jarvis green DE
2003 ty Warren DE

2012 chandler Jones DE

2020 uche was a flash in the pan..

I'm sure there has to be others but I'm drawing a blank trying to figure other edge rushers we drafted during that time frame that made a difference.

We've essentially had to add edge rushers in FA over the years as opposed to drafting them with regularity like a franchise would ideally like.

FA..Colvin, Thomas, Mark Anderson, Andre Carter, judon.. to name a few..

 

[Halifax_Pats_Fan]

True, Denver owns every tie breaker over NE.

Not to say that they themselves could be knocked out by either the Texans or Bills. In my world, should they face one another, this is a distinct possibility. Yes sir.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Also started to wonder do we have a problem at drafting edge rushers??

Like WR's, it seems like BB didn't really try. Since Parcells drafted McGinest, the best edge rusher the Pats drafted was almost 20 years later in Chandler Jones. Richard Seymour and Jarvis Green (underrated player) don't qualify. Trey Flowers was decent, but very overrated by fans. And as you mentioned Josh Uche had one fluke season. I think Hightower was a very underrated rusher who would've been a standout playing edge. I think he was nerfed when he was forced to MLB after Mayo and Collins departed.

Given that Vrabel was an OLB, we'll see if he puts more emphasis on drafting pass rushers. I think he will.

 

[Real fan 02]

Like WR's, it seems like BB didn't really try. Since Parcells drafted McGinest, the best edge rusher the Pats drafted was almost 20 years later in Chandler Jones. Richard Seymour and Jarvis Green (underrated player) don't qualify. Trey Flowers was decent, but very overrated by fans. And as you mentioned Josh Uche had one fluke season. I think Hightower was a very underrated rusher who would've been a standout playing edge. I think he was nerfed when he was forced to MLB after Mayo and Collins departed.

Given that Vrabel was an OLB, we'll see if he puts more emphasis on drafting pass rushers. I think he will.

Good post Rain... it sure appeared that way.. as mentioned 5,6 productive edge rushers in what 20 plus seasons?
We've had some dam good players over the years. But none recently I'd say within the past say 10 drafts of noticeable impact.

During the trade deadline..why I was a proponent of adding someone like Kavon Thibiduaux at edge as he's young, productive and could be here for a while.

Vrabel absolutely without a doubt will be going heavy at pass rush this FA and draft..

 

[jal]

The default position should be: we need to just keep building up the lines on both sides at top of the draft. We can acquire a weapon in trade/FA, but high-end D/O linemen are hard to find anywhere other than the draft.

Now that's the default. But looking at the roster realistically we need more STARS everywhere other than QB and maybe CB so if a great player slips down at any position we can always skip the default (pick linemen) to take BPA. I'd happily take a potential star LB/S/WR/TE/RB/S over just a solid DL or OL for this roster. This roster is 1-2 star players away on BOTH sides of the ball from being a top of the line every year contender. Drake, Gonzo, and maybe Williams are our only truly blue-chip caliber players (not counting Marcus Jones on special teams). Maybe Campbell and Henderson can develop into blue chippers but they certainly aren't there yet.