Another Taboo Elephant! [Mac Jones playing well in SF]

[PatsFan2]

Well, something went down and we'll never know. Callahan wrote that before Mac's disastrous 3rd season, the coaches decided they needed to move on from him. One wonders, did the front office still think of him as the franchise golden boy while the coaches had moved on? I was a Mac backer until the very first game of the 3rd season against the Phins. Things became evident that day. The coaches were well ahead of us because they already knew they were hamstrung by his weak arm and his, well, gutlessness.

Callahan reported that the Patriots coaches had targeted Baker Mayfield as their preferred successor in 2023. Callahan wrote this PRIOR to the 2023 season.

I'll go back to the 2021 draft when Mac Jones was selected. Something very very weird took place in that draft room. It seemed absolutely evident that there were people already against Mac before he was even picked. I've never seen Belichick says those kinds of things before a 1st round pick: "Are we sure about this? Does someone want to speak up here?"

The Pats brass was slow at the time: I knew after we backed in the playoffs: also the three pass game was telling. Mac can't complete a pass along the sidelines unless the Defense concedes it. The minute they play token defense along the sidelines it's a pick.

 

[Patjew]

Well, something went down and we'll never know. Callahan wrote that before Mac's disastrous 3rd season, the coaches decided they needed to move on from him. One wonders, did the front office still think of him as the franchise golden boy while the coaches had moved on? I was a Mac backer until the very first game of the 3rd season against the Phins. Things became evident that day. The coaches were well ahead of us because they already knew they were hamstrung by his weak arm and his, well, gutlessness.

Callahan reported that the Patriots coaches had targeted Baker Mayfield as their preferred successor in 2023. Callahan wrote this PRIOR to the 2023 season.

I'll go back to the 2021 draft when Mac Jones was selected. Something very very weird took place in that draft room. It seemed absolutely evident that there were people already against Mac before he was even picked. I've never seen Belichick says those kinds of things before a 1st round pick: "Are we sure about this? Does someone want to speak up here?"

Indeed, a very weird page in the last chapter of the BB with the Pats book. Such a weird and frustrating ending.

 

[PatsFan2]

Wonder if there was any consideration on the Patriots part of keeping Mac Jones for 2024. Trading the 3rd overall and using extra picks to support Jones.

 

[Bill Lee]

I'll go back to the 2021 draft when Mac Jones was selected. Something very very weird took place in that draft room. It seemed absolutely evident that there were people already against Mac before he was even picked. I've never seen Belichick says those kinds of things before a 1st round pick: "Are we sure about this? Does someone want to speak up here?"

So, what was Bill's supposed 'Plan B' in 2021, BPA and another year of Cam Newton?

If you look at who gets drafted after Mac, it's kind of a poo-poo platter.

Next notable player to me is Barmore at 38, but I'm sure others have binkies in that range.

2021 NFL draft - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Even worse year for QB in 2022, with Kenny Pickett at #20 first QB off the board.

2022 NFL draft - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I know people don't want to hear it, but Bill and his remaining lieutenants had no real plan for life after Brady.

Once Brady decided to leave, it turns out his best option would have been to do everything he could do to develop Mac but the choice to bring in MP and JJ was a huge step in the wrong direction.

 

[ErniesPinkStripes]

Wonder if there was any consideration on the Patriots part of keeping Mac Jones for 2024. Trading the 3rd overall and using extra picks to support Jones.

It is an interesting concept.

The obvious candidate would be NYG since they loved Drake. Maybe 2 1sts (move back to 6 plus 2025 1st and a 2025 2nd? Or maybe get both of their 2025 1st rd picks they used on Carter and Dart? Honestly just spit-balling)

Draft Nabers with 2024 #6 for Mac, strengthen the line with your other picks - maybe they could have grabbed Henry before Baltimore?



..and then **** breaks down and Mac looks like a JV qb - it is what it is - happy we have Drake.

 

[sb1]

The only thing Bill did right was wait for Jones to fall to him and not trade away any assets to get him. Small consolation prize but compared to other things Bill did in the draft in recent years it's a prize.

 

[Bill Lee]

It is an interesting concept.

The obvious candidate would be NYG since they loved Drake. Maybe 2 1sts (move back to 6 plus 2025 1st and a 2025 2nd? Or maybe get both of their 2025 1st rd picks they used on Carter and Dart? Honestly just spit-balling)

Draft Nabers with 2024 #6 for Mac, strengthen the line with your other picks - maybe they could have grabbed Henry before Baltimore?

Breer reported what the Giants were offering:

And here’s some credit to the Patriots for having conviction in Drake Maye in 2024.

The opportunity was there for a team riddled with holes to build up capital by using the No. 3 pick as a trade chip. The Vikings offered the Patriots the 11th pick, the 23rd pick and their 2025 first-round pick (along with Day 3 pick swaps that favored Minnesota) to go up eight spots to No. 3 and get Maye. The Giants offered their 2025 first-rounder to move up three spots, from No. 6 to No. 3.

In the Giants scenario, the Patriots would’ve had their shot at Michael Penix Jr., J.J. McCarthy and Bo Nix. In the Vikings scenario, they could’ve gotten McCarthy or Nix. And ultimately, they decided that Maye was better than those quarterbacks and the combination of draft capital they would’ve gotten after taking one of the other guys at No. 6 or No. 11.

It’s also a good reference point going forward that if you believe in a guy at that position, like the Patriots very much did that spring (they loved how Maye endured a tough 2023 season and refused to blame anyone else for it), the opportunity to get him is priceless.

Firing Their Head Coach Won’t Solve the Titans’ Real Problem

Letting Brian Callahan go is the latest in a series of destabilizing moves by owner Amy Adams Strunk.

www.si.com

Seems the Giants and Vikes were just going by a draft pick value chart, not willing to go all-out for Maye.

IMO, Bill would have taken their offer.

Thankfully Bill wasn't in the room at that point in time.

 

[rkarp1]

I still believe Stiddy could have been, with some time and development.
I would have been ok with him getting the chance post Brady in a let's see how it plays out/reset year.

 

[Simpelton]

I see a lot of parallels between Mac and brissett. two guys who do what they do well, but need structure around them to thrive.

there's a place in the league for guys like that. They can even start here and there without doing very much damage.

I'm glad he's found a situation where he can rebuild his reputation somewhat and cement himself as a quality backup. These last few weeks will probably keep Jones in contracts as at least a quality QB2 for years to come, same with matt Cassell, same with Brisket, same with Hoyer.

 

[203Pat]

Not sure why anyone is that surprised. Shanahan's offense is very quarterback friendly if the QB is willing to run it exactly the way Shanahan tells him to. It might sound crazy because Mac was a first round pick and Purdy was Mr. Irrelevant but they're basically the same player. Weak arm, moderate athleticism, and fairly accurate when they have a clean pocket and don't have to improvise.

 

[Vindicate]

While SF hasn't been able to take a chanpionship home, history will have to look at this current era of SF as one of the best team building organizations that truly brings the most out of a specific type of QB. They have had a monster time drafting people since like. 2011, honestly. How do they do it?

 

[TheRainMaker]

Wonder if there was any consideration on the Patriots part of keeping Mac Jones for 2024. Trading the 3rd overall and using extra picks to support Jones.

I don't think so. They had the #3 overall pick and was guaranteed a top QB. They saw enough of Mac Jones to determine he's too high maintenance. He's done a fine job in SF with all the injuries, but their implosion is coming soon.

 

[upstater1]

The only thing Bill did right was wait for Jones to fall to him and not trade away any assets to get him. Small consolation prize but compared to other things Bill did in the draft in recent years it's a prize.

Bill's last several years with the Patriots (2020 on):

Hunter Henry
Matthew Judon
Mike Onwenu
Rham Stevenson
Anfernee Jennings
Christian Barmore
Marcus Jones
Demario Douglas
Kayshon Boutte
Christian Gonzales
Jabril Peppers
Kendrick Bourne
Bryce Baringer

& when you factor in scheme changes that made the following players unneeded or players who left and who are starting elsewhere:

Kyle Dugger
Keion White
Jahlani Tavai
Marte Mapu
Davon Godchaux
Jakobi Myers
Chad Ryland
Hjalte Froholdt
Jake Andrews

This is not a bad record of talent acquisition.

Certainly better than the 5 years prior to that.

I'd even say this is better than average for the NFL.

If the Patriots succeed in the near future, the players from 2020-2023 will be a key part of it, just like Grier's guys were a key part of the 2001 Super Bowl team.

 

[203Pat]

Bill's last several years with the Patriots (2020 on):

Hunter Henry
Matthew Judon
Mike Onwenu
Rham Stevenson
Anfernee Jennings
Christian Barmore
Marcus Jones
Demario Douglas
Kayshon Boutte
Christian Gonzales
Jabril Peppers
Kendrick Bourne
Bryce Baringer

& when you factor in scheme changes that made the following players unneeded or players who left and who are starting elsewhere:

Kyle Dugger
Keion White
Jahlani Tavai
Marte Mapu
Davon Godchaux
Jakobi Myers
Chad Ryland
Bryce Barringer
Hjalte Froholdt
Jake Andrews

This is not a bad record of talent acquisition.

Certainly better than the 5 years prior to that.

I'd even say this is better than average for the NFL.

If the Patriots succeed in the near future, the players from 2020-2023 will be a key part of it, just like Grier's guys were a key part of the 2001 Super Bowl team.

Old Upstutter giving Bill credit for guys other coaches and teams were able to develop that Bill wasn't. If you can find a "talented" guy but can't get that talent out of him when you're his coach what is the difference?

 

[TheRainMaker]

While SF hasn't been able to take a chanpionship home, history will have to look at this current era of SF as one of the best team building organizations that truly brings the most out of a specific type of QB. They have had a monster time drafting people since like. 2011, honestly. How do they do it?

Being on the west coast and best friend is a 49ers fan, I've watched many games over the years and they are almost a 2nd team to me by default.

During their contending years from 2011-2013, their standout draft picks were Aldon Smith, Colin Kaepernick, Eric Reid and to lesser extent Chris Culliver. Aldon Smith was the catalyst pick to their rise in defense. That dude was an absolute terror. 2012 was a complete throw away draft.

2014 was pretty brutal only getting Jimmie Ward as a long time player who found his niche in the slot. Carlos Hyde was okay, but always injured. 2015-2016 got them Armstead, Buckner and Trent Brown as the standouts. Tart was a hitter, but always injured.

The Shanahan years started out pretty brutal. Taking yet another D-lineman at #3 in Soloman Thomas when DeShaun Watson was the obvious pick. Then they traded back up for Reuben Foster where I won't forget Kyle and John high fiving and later saying they won the draft. Kittle was an instant hit in the 5th round and DJ Jones was a solid rotational DL who came on after a few years. Trent Taylor showed flashes as a Welker/Edelman clone, but always injured.

2018-2020 had Fred Warner, Nick Bosa and Deebo Samuel and Dre Greenlaw as the standouts from day 1. Mclinchey was okay at first, but got worse each year. Aiyuk took some time to catch on as well as Jennings.

2021-2025 is where things are starting to go off the rails. I'd say their best players are Purdy, Lenior and Hufunga who was always injured. Pearsall looks like solid WR. Dee Winters looks like a Dre Greenlaw clone. During the 2021 season when the 49ers were 2-4, the media speculated that Shanahan and Lynch's seat were red hot. Had they not gone on that run to the NFCCG and missed the playoffs, I think they both would've been fired.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

.....you wanted Watson? *eyebrows raised* Hell of a take.

 

[Nehalem]

I know people don't want to hear it, but Bill and his remaining lieutenants had no real plan for life after Brady.

Once Brady decided to leave, it turns out his best option would have been to do everything he could do to develop Mac but the choice to bring in MP and JJ was a huge step in the wrong direction.

The weird part is they used the franchise tag on Joe Thuney and then were so desperate to not start Stidham they signed Cam, and then never even gave Stidham a chance(they even started Hoyer when Cam had COVID ) once Cam failed.

Why you paying a bunch of money for a left guard for 1 year when you don't even have a QB?

Not sure what the plan was there.

 

[upstater1]

The weird part is they used the franchise tag on Joe Thuney and then were so desperate to not start Stidham they signed Cam, and then never even gave Stidham a chance(they even started Hoyer when Cam had COVID ) once Cam failed.

Why you paying a bunch of money for a left guard for 1 year when you don't even have a QB?

Not sure what the plan was there.

They were cap strapped

 

[Vindicate]

Being on the west coast and best friend is a 49ers fan, I've watched many games over the years and they are almost a 2nd team to me by default.

During their contending years from 2011-2013, their standout draft picks were Aldon Smith, Colin Kaepernick, Eric Reid and to lesser extent Chris Culliver. Aldon Smith was the catalyst pick to their rise in defense. That dude was an absolute terror. 2012 was a complete throw away draft.

Aldon Smith, the best that never was. Glad to see he's doing much, much better now, however it's fun to wonder how good he could've gotten. JJ Watt's defensive legacy could've been playing second fiddle to this guy had he stayed in.

2014 was pretty brutal only getting Jimmie Ward as a long time player who found his niche in the slot. Carlos Hyde was okay, but always injured. 2015-2016 got them Armstead, Buckner and Trent Brown as the standouts. Tart was a hitter, but always injured.

The Shanahan years started out pretty brutal. Taking yet another D-lineman at #3 in Soloman Thomas when DeShaun Watson was the obvious pick. Then they traded back up for Reuben Foster where I won't forget Kyle and John high fiving and later saying they won the draft. Kittle was an instant hit in the 5th round and DJ Jones was a solid rotational DL who came on after a few years. Trent Taylor showed flashes as a Welker/Edelman clone, but always injured.

2018-2020 had Fred Warner, Nick Bosa and Deebo Samuel and Dre Greenlaw as the standouts from day 1. Mclinchey was okay at first, but got worse each year. Aiyuk took some time to catch on as well as Jennings.

2021-2025 is where things are starting to go off the rails. I'd say their best players are Purdy, Lenior and Hufunga who was always injured. Pearsall looks like solid WR. Dee Winters looks like a Dre Greenlaw clone. During the 2021 season when the 49ers were 2-4, the media speculated that Shanahan and Lynch's seat were red hot. Had they not gone on that run to the NFCCG and missed the playoffs, I think they both would've been fired.

Interesting, do you think they're great at building teams? Of course there is FA as well, however, as a person who does not pay much attention to SF, it always feels to me they have always have one or two of the premier offensive weapons, a functional QB behind a versatile pass/run game, and are always fighting. But again, this is from the outside.

Also, thanks for all that info!

 

[JoeSixPat]

I'm always hoping to see QBs develop - even if they don't work out here and hope Mac can carve out an actual career, and not just as a backup.

Overall that QB class seemed to have a ton of potential and nearly all of them have shown flashes - but not much consistency.

Trevor Lawrence is hopefully turning the corner. But it's a pretty anemic list of QBs taken even before Mac.

No one is lamenting that we didn't trade up for Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, or Justin Fields.

Compare that with last year's draft with Williams, Maye, Nix, Daniels all looking like the real deal - and maybe Penix and McCarthy able to make their mark, as much as I'd like to blame the Patriots instability, that seems like a VERY weak QB class in comparison.