The Bill megathread (HC at UNC, girlfriend, etc.)

[lancerman]

I would think it be quite clear by now that I think your erasing 20 years of a mans career is of no value to any discussion. And any type discussion is thrown right out for it's foolishness.

Take the 80s and 90s away from Jimmy Johnson and he has nothing.

You know that's disengenous. Jimmy Johnson was a HC in the NFL was 9 seasons. That's ironically shorter than Bill's sample size without Brady. The other irony is that.... Jimmy Johnson has a winning record away from Troy Aikman and never had a losing season when he didn't have Aikman. He actually has proof that he is a winning coach without his top QB... unlike Belichick.

 

[signbabybrady]

When all of the include either the greatest player to touch a football or the greatest defensive player in history, you can absolutely qualify them. Especially when the guy most of that success was with where he ACTUALLY WAS THE HC proved he didn't need Belichick to win titles. Belichick as a HC has never proven he is even anything but abysmal without Brady, much less someone who can win titles.

You can't erase 11 (now 12) years of disasters and pretend they never happened and that they can't be part of the discussion so you can live in lala land.

I don't remove anything I talk about his whole career. Bill's career winning percentage is .647.

 

[signbabybrady]

You know that's disengenous. Jimmy Johnson was a HC in the NFL was 9 seasons. That's ironically shorter than Bill's sample size without Brady. The other irony is that.... Jimmy Johnson has a winning record away from Troy Aikman and never had a losing season when he didn't have Aikman. He actually has proof that he is a winning coach without his top QB... unlike Belichick.

It's not disengenous just trying to be fair if you remove 20 years from one you should remove 20 years from all. I suppose maybe the fair thing to do would be to remove an equal percentage from the middle of their careers. For Jimmy that would still take away his titles.

What's disengenous is to remove anything in this debate. A guy should be rated on his whole career not whatever twisted sample serves your narrative.

 

[Bill Lee]

Interesting trivia question:

Q: Who is older, Bill Belichick's starting QB, or his girlfriend?
A: Neither, they are both the same age.

 

[Mack Herron]

 

[Steve102]

Nixonian.

 

[lancerman]

Nixonian.

He has an enemy list

-the owner
-the owners son
-Mayo
-SB1

 

[Steve102]

He has an enemy list

-the owner
-the owners son
-Mayo
-SB1

I'll be convinced when the missing tapes show up.

 

[h0c2000]

Somehow Brady overcame Bill's inability to develop a QB at any level to become the GOAT.

 

[Tunescribe]

I was thinking about Bill as a person to develop quarterbacks and found something I think is interesting. Bill kept drafting QBs throughout Brady's 20 seasons here. He did this to the point it pissed many fans off. Why spend a 2nd on Jimmy G when we have the GOAT QB when you could have spent that pick on a WR or an OL to help Tom out? He had so many different guys he drafted behind Tom that went on to be at least starting-level talent such as Matt Cassel, Jacoby Brissette and even Bryan Hoyer. He had backup level guys like Kevin O'Connell (now HC of the Vikings), Huard, Mallet. Not to mention Rohan Davey who has two rings so he must be good, right?

But the thing is, when Bill truly NEEDED a new QB he choked. He had his developmental QB of choice, Stidham, on the roster when Brady left. I remember the arguments here saying either Stid would be fine because he has the GOAT coach, or he'd suck. Then of course Bill decided he'd suck and at the last minute went with the corpse of Cam Newton and his never-ending scarf collection. He had Mac and we now see how he could be a serviceable QB with good weapons, a good OL and of course good coaching. Yet Bill didn't provide these especially after McDaniels left and we got the back-and-forth with Jones and Zappe that defined the end of Bill's stay here.

So, isn't that ironic? Bill invests draft capital time and time again in the QB position instead of signing a low-budget vet QB backup for Tom, but when he chases Tom out of town and really needs a QB in his late period he shows he really isn't that good at finding diamonds in the rough and developing them. All those draft picks that could have helped Tom were really there to build up this legend of Bill as a QB whisperer, and when push came to shove we learn that actually Bill isn't good at picking or developing QBs, especially not late-period, bunny-chasing Bill.

Bill was no quarterback whisperer, everyone knows that. But I think he would've done fine (working closely with offensive staff) developing competent QBs had he just stuck exclusively with COACHING vs. spreading himself thin on various GM functions. That, along with constant staff brain drain from many years of success, precipitated the eventual cave-in.

 

[signbabybrady]

Bill developed the greatest QB of all time. No other evidence is needed. He's a QB whisperer.

 

[h0c2000]

Even Bill's BFF Florio can't deny Bill's lost it.

 

[JoeSixPat]

He reportedly thinks there's a Patriots message board where people are talking about him and his legacy.

 

[Bill Lee]

That, along with constant staff brain drain from many years of success people leaving once they've learned what they can learn then got sick of working for an arrogant prick, precipitated the eventual cave-in.

FIFY.

PS: Saw Steve Hackett at the Cabot last night. If you were there, I didn't see you. For me the Lamb stuff really stood out, especially for me Carpet Crawlers. Now I'm watching someone's phone camera footage of a different show a month ago, IMO a much better idea than watching da Jete.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I don’t follow college football. Objectively, is Bill doing good or bad for a first year college coach?

He's doing an incredible job.

 

[raduray]

I think they're referring to this PatsFans forum thread.

 

[XLIX]

I would think it be quite clear by now that I think your erasing 20 years of a mans career is of no value to any discussion.

That might be true except for the fact that we’re still left with 12 years, which is a huge chunk of time and a huge chunk of his career.

 

[1960Pats]

so for me, Brady has zero impact on the discussion.

I wish you guys would drop the Bill vs. Tom nonsense. Beyond being childishly simplistic it demonstrates an embarrassing lack of football knowledge.

Those thoughts might have merit if Bill didn't have 20 great seasons with Tom and 8 of 11 losing seasons without him. Even his record on the Pats minus Brady is horrible.

And to top it off, the very next season after Brady left he won a SB with Kukla, Fran and Ollie as his coaches, and they were **** on constantly by the "knowledgeable" fans here.

You don't have to be the Mona Lisa Vito of fans to know that Brady is very relevant to any discussion of Belichick.

 

[XLIX]

I would think it be quite clear by now that I think your erasing 20 years of a mans career is of no value to any discussion. And any type discussion is thrown right out for it's foolishness.

Take the 80s and 90s away from Jimmy Johnson and he has nothing.

Jimmy Johnson has more playoff wins in his 4 years outside Dallas than Belichick has in his 12 years without Brady.

 

[1960Pats]

That might be true except for the fact that we’re still left with 12 years, which is a huge chunk of time and a huge chunk of his career.

One other thing that hasn't come up here, but is still mentioned elsewhere to this day, is the cheating label that he left the Pats with.