Patriots Pregame Thread Week 4 discussion: Pats @ Niners

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I was listening last night to Tom E Curran, whom I generally admire. He talked about Purdy "running all over the place with no purpose," as if that offered some hope for the Pats in the upcoming game. Utter horseshit, in my view. If you look at Purdy's numbers (as the redoubtable and hyper-responsible Phil Perry did), it's obvious that Purdy is doing great. I watched that game, and that was certainly my impression. To my eye, Purdy is in the top five among NFL qb's.

What does this have to do with the Pats' game? Only this: we are going to get clobbered, abused, wasted, razed to the ground and plowed under with salt. It's gonna be moidah I tell ya. If you watch the game, cover your eyes. Send the kids to their aunt's house.

The interesting question to me is, "What then?" I have supported the idea that not playing Maye has been the right approach, given what a **** show the O-line and WR rooms are. I have been not so much worried about Maye getting injured - though that is a legitimate concern - as that his development might be arrested playing behind such a lousy line, throwing to receivers who can't get open, and playing a style of offense outside his experience and arguably ill-suited to his skills under an OC who may or may not be up to the job.

I am beginning to wonder, though, whether after Sunday's bloodbath that will still be the right take, whether damage to the team as a whole, to its sense of itself, to the teams' development wrought by continuing failure with Jakoby at the helm might make starting Brisset a luxury we can no longer afford. Maybe it's time to set aside our concerns for Maye in favor of our concerns for the team as a whole.

The schedule does lighten up considerably after sf so Sunday’s result doesn’t really change my outlook. A team like ours will probably get walloped in a few games and the most you can hope is they are at least competitive in most others. Of the first 4 games cincy was probably the ‘easiest’ and while they probably are not a contender like people thought, its not like the team is trash. They do have an elite qb and All 3 losses including at arrowhead came down to the wire.

After sf the only games that truly frighten me are bills 2x and jets. Houston MAYBE, they honestly haven’t looked as good to me as i pictured through 3 weeks. Tua will be out for at least 1 of the miami games. The rest of the games dont look much tougher if at all tougher than the Seattle and cincy games so theoretically they should be competitive in most unless the team truly is on a downward spiral. But itll take a few weeks to really tell.

 

[mgteich]

The schedule does lighten up considerably after sf so Sunday’s result doesn’t really change my outlook. A team like ours will probably get walloped in a few games and the most you can hope is they are at least competitive in most others. Of the first 4 games cincy was probably the ‘easiest’ and while they probably are not a contender like people thought, its not like the team is trash. They do have an elite qb and All 3 losses including at arrowhead came down to the wire.

After sf the only games that truly frighten me are bills 2x and jets. Houston MAYBE, they honestly haven’t looked as good to me as i pictured through 3 weeks. Tua will be out for at least 1 of the miami games. The rest of the games dont look much tougher if at all tougher than the Seattle and cincy games so theoretically they should be competitive in most unless the team truly is on a downward spiral. But itll take a few weeks to really tell.

Miami SHOULD be Maye's time to start.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

I saw Brissett throw a pass on his knees LMAO...

90 yards! Sorry, thinking of Milton. I'd rather see Milton than JB now, if they can manage to explain it to Drake so he doesn't resent the decision. At least we could lose with some excitement.

 

[Thelonious]

The schedule does lighten up considerably after sf so Sunday’s result doesn’t really change my outlook. A team like ours will probably get walloped in a few games and the most you can hope is they are at least competitive in most others. Of the first 4 games cincy was probably the ‘easiest’ and while they probably are not a contender like people thought, its not like the team is trash. They do have an elite qb and All 3 losses including at arrowhead came down to the wire.

After sf the only games that truly frighten me are bills 2x and jets. Houston MAYBE, they honestly haven’t looked as good to me as i pictured through 3 weeks. Tua will be out for at least 1 of the miami games. The rest of the games dont look much tougher if at all tougher than the Seattle and cincy games so theoretically they should be competitive in most unless the team truly is on a downward spiral. But itll take a few weeks to really tell.

I frankly don't much care how many games they win. I am focused on whether they do or do not develop and evaluate the present roster, Maye first and foremost. If they win games, that might be a sign they are progressing, and it might "teach them how to win." On the other hand, every game they lose jacks up their draft position. So wins and losses are sort of a wash in my mind. Given how low the team had fallen, how ineffectual the rebuild has been to this point, and how much more as a result there is to be done, this year is in my mind about next year and years following

 

[mgteich]

I frankly don't much care how many games they win. I am focused on whether they do or do not develop and evaluate the present roster, Maye first and foremost. If they win games, that might be a sign they are progressing, and it might "teach them how to win." On the other hand, every game they lose jacks up their draft position. So wins and losses are sort of a wash in my mind. Given how low the team had fallen, how ineffectual the rebuild has been to this point, and how much more as a result there is to be done, this year is in my mind about next year and years following

???
You say the rebuild has been ineffectual. I guess that has to do with expectations. If you were expecting a team competing for the playoff THIS year, I agree that the rebuild had been less than expected. However, I think most of us expected a 2-4 year rebuild to coincide with Maye's first contract, with us competing for the playoffs in Year 2, and the division and then deeper in Years 3 and 4.

YEAR ONE
I thought that almost all of us expected 0-4 or 1-3 to start, with the OL taking 1/4 to 1/2 a season to gel, and for Maye to start somewhere in that window. I would say that we are what I expected. The Offense is awful and will be as long as Brissett is starting.

I do expect things out of this year. We need to see where we are on the OL, WR, QB and CB as we develop players at those positions.

And the players and coaches have to learn systems on both side of the ball, obviously much more on of Offense.
=================
MUCH OF THE REBUILDING HAPPENED BEFORE THE SEASON STARTED
1) We re-signed and extended players who the staff considered to be key players in the first week or so of free agency.
(Onwenu, Dugger, Henry, Jennings)
2) We signed 3 free agents to more than one year: Gibson (3) and Takitaki (2).
3) We signed some players to essentially show-me contracts of one year (Hooper, Uche, Hawkins, Slye). Hopefully, they will part of the future.
4) We extended some more of our key players after the initial free agency rush (Stevenson, Andrews, Barmore, Godchaux, Peppers, Tavai)
5) 8 draftees plus Pettus all made the team. The draftees are certainly part of the rebuild.
6) We added a bunch of low-level players, one or two of whom might become future contributors.

 

[Zuma]

Miami SHOULD be Maye's time to start.

I agree but only if the OL is Lowe-Sow-Andrews-Onwenu-Wallace and Brissett struggles mightily against the 49ers.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

I agree but only if the OL is Lowe-Sow-Andrews-Onwenu-Wallace and Brissett struggles mightily against the 49ers.

Let’s hope they don’t suck: the franchise is on the line

 

[mgteich]

I agree but only if the OL is Lowe-Sow-Andrews-Onwenu-Wallace and Brissett struggles mightily against the 49ers.

I fear that if you are waiting for Wallace to start at RT, you may be waiting a long time.

Lowe is still out. Both Jordan and Wallace are limited in practice after minor injuries on Thursday.
===========
We have at least 4 OG's that the team is comfortable starting: Jordan, Strange, Sow, and Robinson. We also have Thomas. I expect that one will be cut or traded when Strange comes back. Onwenu is the 6th OG (and certainly the best).

We are very, very thin at OT. We have Lowe, Wallace, Jacobs and Onwenu. With Lowe prone to injury, I see Wallace staying on the left side, unless there is an injury to Onwenu. In addition, Wallace would be our jumbo back if he isn't playing LT. That was 18 reps in the first game, giving him some experience with the NFL game.

I guess the bottom line is that starting OT's are very hard to fine. I don't see us moving Onwenu when we have 5 guards without him. Perhaps, just perhaps, the team needs to focus on making Onwenu a better OT, rather than worrying about which starting quality OG to cut or trade to make room for him at RG.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I frankly don't much care how many games they win. I am focused on whether they do or do not develop and evaluate the present roster, Maye first and foremost. If they win games, that might be a sign they are progressing, and it might "teach them how to win." On the other hand, every game they lose jacks up their draft position. So wins and losses are sort of a wash in my mind. Given how low the team had fallen, how ineffectual the rebuild has been to this point, and how much more as a result there is to be done, this year is in my mind about next year and years following

Im more focused on 2025 as well. Getting Drake in there also would better help us evaluate the wr’s we currently have and might tell us a little more about the OL too. Just think the decision to throw him in there should revolve more around the line not looking like it did against the jets vs the particular result of any games. I don’t think we’d learn anything in that instance about maye or the wr’s , it might stunt his development if anything. Hopefully as the line gets healthier they start to show more capable of supporting a qb.

 

[UrbanCowboy]

The SF injuries and their slow start are trying to tease us into this being another Cinci game. I think SF is over-rated, but then when you try to think of who's better .... it's a short list. I'd be surprised if we get rolled again like last week. I think this team will fight [all year], but we lose a close one.

 

[p8ryts]

The SF injuries and their slow start are trying to tease us into this being another Cinci game. I think SF is over-rated, but then when you try to think of who's better .... it's a short list. I'd be surprised if we get rolled again like last week. I think this team will fight [all year], but we lose a close one.

I would be surprised if we don't "rolled" again, but I'm looking forward to Miami as an indicator of where we really are. It's also a game I could see Maye starting. I hope he is not still working on footwork. I expect to see confusion but hope for awareness and anticipation. He needs some game time to improve pre and post snap reads.

 

[Thelonious]

???
You say the rebuild has been ineffectual. I guess that has to do with expectations. If you were expecting a team competing for the playoff THIS year, I agree that the rebuild had been less than expected. However, I think most of us expected a 2-4 year rebuild to coincide with Maye's first contract, with us competing for the playoffs in Year 2, and the division and then deeper in Years 3 and 4.

YEAR ONE
I thought that almost all of us expected 0-4 or 1-3 to start, with the OL taking 1/4 to 1/2 a season to gel, and for Maye to start somewhere in that window. I would say that we are what I expected. The Offense is awful and will be as long as Brissett is starting.

I do expect things out of this year. We need to see where we are on the OL, WR, QB and CB as we develop players at those positions.

And the players and coaches have to learn systems on both side of the ball, obviously much more on of Offense.
=================
MUCH OF THE REBUILDING HAPPENED BEFORE THE SEASON STARTED
1) We re-signed and extended players who the staff considered to be key players in the first week or so of free agency.
(Onwenu, Dugger, Henry, Jennings)
2) We signed 3 free agents to more than one year: Gibson (3) and Takitaki (2).
3) We signed some players to essentially show-me contracts of one year (Hooper, Uche, Hawkins, Slye). Hopefully, they will part of the future.
4) We extended some more of our key players after the initial free agency rush (Stevenson, Andrews, Barmore, Godchaux, Peppers, Tavai)
5) 8 draftees plus Pettus all made the team. The draftees are certainly part of the rebuild.
6) We added a bunch of low-level players, one or two of whom might become future contributors.

I expected the team at least to make a representative effort at addressing the O-line and to improve the WR room at least to some degree. While I did not expect a one-year turn-around, Wolfe et als's complete failure to address the issue the o-line issue in particular, resulting in a line which is so bad that it inhibits the development of Maye and every offensive player and of the unit generally represents a serious failure. Moreover, if one extends "the rebuild" back through to the point Brady left the sinking ship, the rebuild is now several years in duration, and progress of over that rather extensive period of time has certainly been unacceptably meager.

I would note that Wolfe played a significant role over much of that extended period.

 

[jmt57]

A public service announcement for out-of-towners, via 506 Sports:

Pats game will be televised in New England (duh), NYC, Pittsburgh, Jacksonville, Indianapolis, and most of the northern US from Wisconsin to California. Joe Davis and Greg Olsen will be the announcers.

506 Sports - NFL Maps: Week 4, 2024

NATIONAL BROADCASTS
Thursday Night: Dallas @ NY Giants (Amazon)
Sunday Night: Buffalo @ Baltimore (NBC)
Monday Night 7:30 ET: Tennessee @ Miami (ESPN; Chris Fowler, Louis Riddick, Dan Orlovsky)
Monday Night 8:15 ET: Seattle @ Detroit (ABC; Joe Buck, Troy Aikman)

CBS Early

?Denver @ NY Jets - Ian Eagle, Charles Davis
?Minnesota @ Green Bay - Kevin Harlan, Trent Green
?Jacksonville @ Houston - Andrew Catalon, Tiki Barber, Jason McCourty
?Pittsburgh @ Indianapolis - Spero Dedes, Adam Archuleta


CBS Late

?Kansas City @ LA Chargers - Jim Nantz, Tony Romo
?Cleveland @ Las Vegas - Beth Mowins, Ross Tucker, Jay Feely


Fox Single Game

?Philadelphia @ Tampa Bay - Kevin Burkhardt, Tom Brady
?New Orleans @ Atlanta - Kenny Albert, Jonathan Vilma
?LA Rams @ Chicago - Adam Amin, Mark Sanchez
?Cincinnati @ Carolina - Kevin Kugler, Daryl Johnston

?New England @ San Francisco (LATE) - Joe Davis, Greg Olsen
?Washington @ Arizona (LATE) - Chris Myers, Mark Schlereth

 

[sb1]

SF injury report

DNP: Dee Winters (ankle), Trent Williams (illness), Deebo Samuel (calf)

Limited: George Kittle (hamstring)

Full: Brock Purdy (back)

 

[dliverey44]

So do you anticipate strangers back by week 5? Or is that just the window for his potential availability?

I don't think we should count on Strange at all because it took him a while to play well last year after missing the summer. He has missed a lot of football in the past year, so its more realistic to assume that he doesn't have a significant role until next year.

 

[Jim Beankie]

I still can't believe the Pats are only the 2nd worst offense (points scored). The Dolphins with all of those ridiculous weapons are the worst!!

Sorry if this has been said a ton already.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I don't think we should count on Strange at all because it took him a while to play well last year after missing the summer. He has missed a lot of football in the past year, so its more realistic to assume that he doesn't have a significant role until next year.

Strange had a torn patella tendon last December. It is a 9 month recovery like an ACL which means the timetable is the end of September. So Strange should be close to a return after game 5 for game 6 (mid-October). Mayo said Strange was in the facility every day in rehab and meetings.

 

[dliverey44]

Strange had a torn patella tendon last December. It is a 9 month recovery like an ACL which means the timetable is the end of September. So Strange should be close to a return after game 5 for game 6 (mid-October). Mayo said Strange was in the facility every day in rehab and meetings.

Yes and then it is going to take him awhile to get into football shape, so maybe he looks alright in December.

 

[signbabybrady]

I don't think we should count on Strange at all because it took him a while to play well last year after missing the summer. He has missed a lot of football in the past year, so its more realistic to assume that he doesn't have a significant role until next year.

I'm counting on him lol.
Counting on Sow too.
Lowe even.

Clearly we aren't good enough we need all hands on deck as soon as possible. I'm hoping for 2 of them possibly as soon as SF and all 3 soon after. Even as backups.

 

[dliverey44]

I'm counting on him lol.
Counting on Sow too.
Lowe even.

Clearly we aren't good enough we need all hands on deck as soon as possible. I'm hoping for 2 of them possibly as soon as SF and all 3 soon after. Even as backups.

I really hope that I am the wrongest I have ever been. I also find it somewhat interesting that they have yet to use the OL they initially wanted due to injuries.

Lowe-sow-andrew-owenu-chuks

now with Chuks gone maybe Wallace can step up, but Big Mike needs to go back to RG