We could have drafted a LT who might have started in 2025

[Huckleberry1]

There were lots of great options in FA on the defensive side of the ball. If we only look to improve the offense, the defense will slip. We should have signed defensive FAs this year and concentrated on offense in next year's draft. Team building should be continuous on both sides of the ball, not stop and start. If we pick the best fits in FA and the draft on both sides of the ball for 3 years straight, we will have a lot of great choices. If we save cap space and try to pick all the players we want in one big FA signing year, we are only limiting our options. Additionally it is better to continuously integrate players into our offensive and defensive philosophies, not try to teach a bunch of new players all at one time.

I wanted Wilkins more than any other free agent, and I have no idea who they did or did not go after, other than Ridley, but this really wasn’t a good free agency overall, the only franchised player who didn’t re-sign was Higgins.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I never claimed to have deep insights into anything.

This is just you being salty you were wrong months ago and now our offensive tackles suck.

You claim your opinions are “ historical fact” and you routinely claim to know how the front office operated during Belichick’s final years based upon nothing more than an offhand comment from Kraft about wanting to see “ more collaboration.”

 

[Huckleberry1]

There were lots of great options in FA on the defensive side of the ball. If we only look to improve the offense, the defense will slip. We should have signed defensive FAs this year and concentrated on offense in next year's draft. Team building should be continuous on both sides of the ball, not stop and start. If we pick the best fits in FA and the draft on both sides of the ball for 3 years straight, we will have a lot of great choices. If we save cap space and try to pick all the players we want in one big FA signing year, we are only limiting our options. Additionally it is better to continuously integrate players into our offensive and defensive philosophies, not try to teach a bunch of new players all at one time.

I agree with most of this, I just don’t know who they went after, or why they didn’t get certain players.

 

[upstater1]

You claim your opinions are “ historical fact” and you routinely claim to know how the front office operated during Belichick’s final years based upon nothing more than an offhand comment from Kraft about wanting to see “ more collaboration.”

I'm guilty of this as well since I think it was cloudy for all of us.

I was only going on a couple examples:

#1. Thornton's scouting and the connections to Baylor by scouts
#2. Krafts comments that Belichick agreed to collaborate
#3. Belichick's weird question to the room, "Is everyone good with this?" right before taking Mac.
#4. Callahan's article claiming Belichick wanted Jakobi but eventually went with the metrics presented to him on JuJu.
#5. Claims that Belichick wanted to move on from Mac Jones very early.

We can speculate all we want on what any of this means but at the end of the day, none of us know.

This is very different than things that can be blamed on Belichick like, passing on AJ Brown. Or taking Marte Mapu after it was clear he was a College All-Star game hero, similar to Kyle Dugger.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I agree with most of this, I just don’t know who they went after, or why they didn’t get certain players.

I do not know who they went after and why they failed either. We can only comment on what we know. Recognizing that, if they did pursue defensive FAs and failed to sign them, that is a failure of the new management/coaching team. I do not accept excuses like "players do not want to come to NE". If the team is a bottom tier team and taxes are high, then the owner has to spend more. Younger FAs, the ones we want to sign, are chasing money, not rings. We should not sign "ring chasing" older FAs at this time.

It is OK to comment on what you know. If we do not comment on what is publicly available, then there is no reason to have a message board.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I do not know who they went after and why they failed either. We can only comment on what we know. Recognizing that, if they did pursue defensive FAs and failed to sign them, that is a failure of the new management/coaching team. I do not accept excuses like "players do not want to come to NE". If the team is a bottom tier team and taxes are high, then the owner has to spend more. Younger FAs, the ones we want to sign, are chasing money, not rings. We should not sign "ring chasing" older FAs at this time.

It is OK to comment on what you know. If we do not comment on what is publicly available, then there is no reason to have a message board.

Then we disagree on that, as I don’t think you can make free agents who don’t want to play for a terrible team come and play here. Longer term I would agree that it’s not an excuse for losing as they have to put the team on a track where players do want to come here, but when you are in the first couple of months taking over there isn’t much you can do about that perception.

I didn’t say people people couldn’t comment on what they are seeing, as said that I don’t know who they went after and who they didn’t. That’s the truth, they were really quiet in free agency and I don’t know if that was by design, or they kept getting rebuffed by players/agents. I do agree that they need to continue addressing defense, and expect they will in the next offseason.

 

[Ring 6]

Mayo's a rookie head coach. He hasn't coached college or anything like that. That could also turn some players off to playing here. He has no record of success as a head coach (as a de facto defensive coordinator, sure, but not as a HC).

Then why did we hire him?

 

[Ring 6]

I do not know who they went after and why they failed either. We can only comment on what we know. Recognizing that, if they did pursue defensive FAs and failed to sign them, that is a failure of the new management/coaching team. I do not accept excuses like "players do not want to come to NE". If the team is a bottom tier team and taxes are high, then the owner has to spend more. Younger FAs, the ones we want to sign, are chasing money, not rings. We should not sign "ring chasing" older FAs at this time.

It is OK to comment on what you know. If we do not comment on what is publicly available, then there is no reason to have a message board.

Isn’t it the job of the front office to get players to sign? It’s like saying the LT got the QB sacked, but it was because he took a misstep, the other guy is really good, we passed to much, we didn’t give him help, the qb didn’t throw earlier, etc etc.
why do we give the front office a pass for not doing their job, but not the player?
Interestingly this is the first time I’ve ever seen that mentality on this board and it is pervasive.

Why suddenly are there absolutely zero expectations of the front office?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Why suddenly are there absolutely zero expectations of the front office?

I agree. That is why it is a failure that we did not bring 2 or 3 top FAs. But there are a lot of excuses that no FAs wants to come here, we have to be patient, this draft class is the best in 10 years, etc. I am not impressed.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree. That is why it is a failure that we did not bring 2 or 3 top FAs. But there are a lot of excuses that no FAs wants to come here, we have to be patient, this draft class is the best in 10 years, etc. I am not impressed.

There are so many players on the roster that are barely nfl caliber. If you didn’t sign 2-3 top free agents you could sign many upgrades, rotational players, etc. Having major weaknesses on the roster us a huge problem.

 

[Huckleberry1]

lol

I agree. That is why it is a failure that we did not bring 2 or 3 top FAs. But there are a lot of excuses that no FAs wants to come here, we have to be patient, this draft class is the best in 10 years, etc. I am not impressed.

I agree that a team can’t use excuses for a long term inability to get better, but I disagree that it isn’t a factor when a new regime takes over a terrible team with no QB. The only two players I know of that they went hard after were Ridley and Aiyuk, they made the best offer to both and neither wanted to come here. Now they have to change that perception and make NE a desireable place to play.

I haven’t seen anyone say this is the best draft class in 10 years, but I don’t doubt that some have said that, However if Maye was a hit then the most important problem has been fixed.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

The only two players I know of that they went hard after were Ridley and Aiyuk.

When a team has the most cap space in 2024, 2025, and 2026, the lack of effort to incrementally improve the team should be the message when the team only approached 2 premium FAs.

Instead you discuss that neither FA wanted to come to NE without noting that Ridley took the most money, and Aiyuk turned down every other team too to stay in SF. Aiyuk was never leaving SF and the Pats situation had nothing to do with it, but the excuses continue.

I haven’t seen anyone say this is the best draft class in 10 years, but I don’t doubt that some have said that, However if Maye was a hit then the most important problem has been fixed.

Maybe you saw Wolf will be GM of the Year posts? Hilarious. .

Yes Maye will be key, that is agreed.

 

[SinceGroganWalkedIn]

Yup. We could have drafted a LT instead of Polk who might have started next year, or not.

We might have drafted an OT at 68 who might have been a solid backup in 2025.

Instead, we drafted our choice of WR (Polk) and Wallace who is likely to be an OT starter THIS YEAR, and who might compete to start at LT in 2025.
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SHAME ON WOLF!

Where's the data that backs any shame on Wolf statement. the LTs taken second round are no more or less a project that is Wallace that the pats got in the 3rd round. Parillo said Wallace and Layden Robinson both look physically impressive in camp, but are navigating the rookie learning curve as you would expect. Did you think Wallace should have started already before the Cincy game? There's no real football even played yet to deem what your saying. We won't know for 2-3 years if the pats picks in rd2,3 were good, bad or otherwise. and to say "we might have drafted an OT at 68 that might be a solid backup in 2025" what? They drafted Wallace 3rd round. C'mon. Do you know how many people vented that Wolf and BB prior didn't follow their draft boards and condemn them as such? Even with no football played. Make a statement 2-3 years from now on this topic and name who you'd pick now.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

I agree. That is why it is a failure that we did not bring 2 or 3 top FAs. But there are a lot of excuses that no FAs wants to come here, we have to be patient, this draft class is the best in 10 years, etc. I am not impressed.

The higher than expected cap increase removed many of the top FA's from the market, such as Tee Higgins. Then we made the most aggressive offers of anyone for Ridley and Aiyuk, so I don't know what else you expected the Pats to do as far as FA's. They weren't sitting on the sidelines.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

The higher than expected cap increase removed many of the top FA's from the market, such as Tee Higgins. Then we made the most aggressive offers of anyone for Ridley and Aiyuk, so I don't know what else you expected the Pats to do as far as FA's. They weren't sitting on the sidelines.

The Pats could have signed 2 or 3 top defensive FAs to continue to build the team, and then concentrate on the offense in the 2025 draft. There are FAs on both sides of the ball . Just because our offense is weaker than our defense does not mean we should ignore the defense. Continue to build and strengthen the defense while rebuilding the offense. It is a team sport so the whole team has to be improved every year.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

In an ideal world, I'd like for them to have signed a top defensive FA or two, but, to be fair, there was only 2 FAs that's recently made a pro bowl on defense (EDGE Danielle Hunter, LB Patrick Queen). It wasn't really a strong class. I thought the FA prices were really high for the caliber of players available. Felt like near top-of-the-market deals for lots of not close to the top of the market players. I don't really fault them for pocketing the money this year.

That can't happen in perpetuity though. Eventually they need to use the cap space to add talented players, even if sub pro bowl level. There's no 100% correct answer. Saving the money to try and add better players down the line can work, as can just spending on the best available each year. They chose option 1 and while some may disagree, I think it's kind of pointless to just keep complaining about it over and over and over and over. It was a multi year decision, so none of us are going to be able to judge or grade their approach right now.

 

[mgteich]

In an ideal world, I'd like for them to have signed a top defensive FA or two, but, to be fair, there was only 2 FAs that's recently made a pro bowl on defense (EDGE Danielle Hunter, LB Patrick Queen). It wasn't really a strong class. I thought the FA prices were really high for the caliber of players available. Felt like near top-of-the-market deals for lots of not close to the top of the market players. I don't really fault them for pocketing the money this year.

That can't happen in perpetuity though. Eventually they need to use the cap space to add talented players, even if sub pro bowl level. There's no 100% correct answer. Saving the money to try and add better players down the line can work, as can just spending on the best available each year. They chose option 1 and while some may disagree, I think it's kind of pointless to just keep complaining about it over and over and over and over. It was a multi year decision, so none of us are going to be able to judge or grade their approach right now.

It is interesting to hear that only pro-bowlers would have been significant upgrades over Pharms, Ekuale, Uche, McMillan, Ximines, Ellis, Jacobs and Johnson.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

It is interesting to hear that only pro-bowlers would have been significant upgrades over Pharms, Ekuale, Uche, McMillan, Ximines, Ellis, Jacobs and Johnson.

Not saying only pro bowlers would be an upgrade. This team sucks and has a lot of unused cap space. They OBVIOUSLY could have improved the roster in multiple areas by spending in free agency. That's not a question.

Either the owner is so cheap that he wants to pocket money to the point that no owner has ever done before, or they have a plan to defer the money to future years and hope for better FA classes and/or more willingness for the guys they pursue to come here (Ridley, Aiyuk, etc.). The cheap owner theory feels tin foil hat and I don't go down that road until there's evidence to complain about. So seems to me they made the choice to defer cap space down the line to hopefully use it on better players than they could have gotten this year. I can't adequately judge that strategy until I see who they get. In theory it makes sense, but if the lack of improvement now leaves them in an eternal state of guys not wanting to come here or teams keep retaining their own players resulting in watered down FA classes, then this year will have been a waste.

 

[mgteich]

Not saying only pro bowlers would be an upgrade. This team sucks and has a lot of unused cap space. They OBVIOUSLY could have improved the roster in multiple areas by spending in free agency. That's not a question.

Either the owner is so cheap that he wants to pocket money to the point that no owner has ever done before, or they have a plan to defer the money to future years and hope for better FA classes and/or more willingness for the guys they pursue to come here (Ridley, Aiyuk, etc.). The cheap owner theory feels tin foil hat and I don't go down that road until there's evidence to complain about. So seems to me they made the choice to defer cap space down the line to hopefully use it on better players than they could have gotten this year. I can't adequately judge that strategy until I see who they get. In theory it makes sense, but if the lack of improvement now leaves them in an eternal state of guys not wanting to come here or teams keep retaining their own players resulting in watered down FA classes, then this year will have been a waste.

We were willing to sign a wide receiver for $30M AAV to group that had 8 players that might produce at WR, rather than wait a year which certainly seems much more prudent.
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At the same time, we were NOT willing to sign even one solid starter/contributor for the front seven of the Defense.

I'm OK with deferring money, but we need to continue to improve or at least replace player of the Defense. Otherwise, the gain on the Offense will be a waste of time and effort.
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At this point, I guess we should just extend Wise and hope for no injuries.
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As an exercise, you might look at the defensive snaps by Barmore and Guy last year, and consider the replacements of Pharms and Ekuale.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

We were willing to sign a wide receiver for $30M AAV to group that had 8 players that might produce at WR, rather than wait a year which certainly seems much more prudent.
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At the same time, we were NOT willing to sign even one solid starter/contributor for the front seven of the Defense.

I'm OK with deferring money, but we need to continue to improve or at least replace player of the Defense. Otherwise, the gain on the Offense will be a waste of time and effort.
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At this point, I guess we should just extend Wise and hope for no injuries.
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As an exercise, you might look at the defensive snaps by Barmore and Guy last year, and consider the replacements of Pharms and Ekuale.

DT was definitely a spot they could have used some more reinforcements. At the same time, I do think they had a good starting tandem in place of Barmore/Godchaux. The depth was shaky, but I think Ekuale has been a decent backup for a few years now. Roberts/Pharms/Hill are all intriguing to me and then I thought Watts was a decent depth signing. At the start of the offseason, I was hoping they'd pursue Wilkins as a splurge signing here. His market was above what I thought though so I was ok passing. This was a spot I really wanted addressed via the draft more than FA, to be honest. Once Wilkins was off the board, I didn't think it made sense to spend a good chunk of money on guys less than Godchaux which pretty much everyone was (and the guys who weren't were more 3T/pass rusher rush types that didn't mesh great with Barmore IMO). I was really hoping for a young rotational run stuffer type to groom behind Godchaux. I liked the rest of our depth, as developmental guys also knowing we kick guys inside a lot too. Barmore getting blood clots really blew things up here but I was ok with the approach before that.

IMO, the FA misses or things I'd have done differenlty were:

1) No reason we don't have an actual backup to Stevenson for primary back role.
2) I'd have splurged on Jonah Williams just to have someone that can play some semblance of NFL caliber LT on the team even though he's not good or viable here long-term
3) Knowing the uncertainty of the Judon situation, I think they should have made a harder run at reinforcements here.
4) I thought the S position was deep in free agency and even though we have good players there we could have used a coverage type to round out the unit.

At WR, CB, DT, LB I viewed those as positions where adding a top of the depth chart player would make sense but I was ok with their depth to where I wouldn't have pursued second and third tier options. At WR they pursued Ridley and Aiyuk which I liked. Rumors were they talked to Sneed which I would have loved if he wasn't tagged and costed a pick with the money. At those spots I was good with going for the top of the market but otherwise letting our depth options play out because I think we have good depth of functional WRs and CBs despite lacking top of the depth chart type talent. No rumors of them in on Wilkins at DT but the money was huge so I'm ok. I was interested in Queen at LB but he's kind of inconsistent and not sure a scheme fit with what they've done at that spot historically.