Who Is Our 3rd Starting Corner And Who Is the Backup Outside

[mgteich]

QUESTION: Who are our top 3 corners? Perhaps we should have a poll and see how many of us think Wilson is a better corner than Marcus Jones.
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THIS IS THE STORY WE"RE BEING TOLD
AZ cut a 3-season starter (Wilson) mid-season since he is no longer good enough to start because he doesn't fit the new system as well as the old, and also because he didn't like the new system.
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Perhaps we should cut Douglas because he doesn't fit the new system all that well. Why not? What, you think that keeping a player and finding a way for a starter to contribute might actually be the job of the coaches?

I get it that AZ can't judge or coach players. No one ever can.

However, it would seem that they would find a backup spot for a starter if someone moved up in the depth chart. Well, they could if he were the solid starting talent that we are being told that he is.

Oh, Wilson wasn't taking losing his job very well. Surely that is a reason for a mid-season cut, Really?
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Wozzy must have a lot more data than we do. What, he does! Wilson is a leader at bench pressing!
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I AM FINE WITH WILSON STARTING
That may happen. But saying that he is likely to be better than Austin doesn't make him a lock to be a starter.

To me, the top 4 corners are Gonzo, Jones, Jones and Wade. We should be able to find various matchups against various teams. The top 3 safeties are the same as last year other than Hawkins replacing Mills.

I see BOLDEN with a lot of potential, but not likely to be a starter yet. he'll make the team as a STer

To me, that give us our top 7 position starters and a ST who can be backup at a position for a total of EIGHT.

And, YES, I have Wilson making the roster over Austin and Dial and being the #9 DB. We still could keep one more.

BOTTOM LINE
Sure, I hope that someone (Wilson or Austin or Dial) is better than Wade AND Marcus Jones at corner and therefore is a starter.

BTW, labelling Wade a free safety does absolutely nothing, and it is certainly unreasonable not to consider him for one of the spots at corner, given that played a lot at corner last year, and played OK.

Unless there is an injury, a 4th safety would get no reps.

 

[Zuma]

QUESTION: Who are our top 3 corners? Perhaps we should have a poll and see how many of us think Wilson is a better corner than Marcus Jones.

In no universe should Marcus 5’8” Jones should be at CB 2. The secondary is better with the Jones boys at CB 3.

 

[mgteich]

In no universe should Marcus 5’8” Jones should be at CB 2. The secondary is better with the Jones boys at CB 3.

To be clear, you don't think that Jon Jones is a better outside corner that Wilson or Austin?
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If Jon Jones is better than he should be playing outside, with Marcus, Wade and whoever fighting it out for reps at nickel.

Do you think that Marcus is a better nickel back than Wade, Austin and Wilson?

 

[Zuma]

To be clear, you don't think that Jon Jones is a better outside corner that Wilson or Austin?
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If Jon Jones is better than he should be playing outside, with Marcus, Wade and whoever fighting it out for reps at nickel.

Do you think that Marcus is a better nickel back than Wade, Austin and Wilson?

To be clear, you don’t think the OL is better with Onwenu at RG? What is “better”? I want Jon Jones to be playing on the inside where his skills have allowed him to be the best player he can be, allows the team to be “better”. Who is our opponent? Who do they have in the slot? I’ve never been a fan of BB playing guys out of position. I want players to play at their natural position which allows the team to be “better”.

 

[mgteich]

To be clear, you don’t think the OL is better with Onwenu at RG? What is “better”? I want Jon Jones to be playing on the inside where his skills have allowed him to be the best player he can be, allows the team to be “better”. Who is our opponent? Who do they have in the slot? I’ve never been a fan of BB playing guys out of position. I want players to play at their natural position which allows the team to be “better”.

Sure, we can change who plays what position lots of times depending on opponent.

And yes, just like in the OL, we need to consider both positions. Of course, Jon Jones is a better player inside, similar to Onwenu.

Which combination is best for the team? I'm not sure. Are you?
More to the point, given the alternatives, do we gain more with Jon Jones at NB or at CB.
I submit that I am much comfortable with Jon Jones at outside corner and looking to Marcus Jones and Wade at nickel.

The situation is indeed similar to that of Onwenu. In that case, one had to see the value of players at LR, RG and RT. I can see alternatives where Onwenu will be our RT yet again. What if neither Williams nor Anderson is ready to start, and as we thought, Okorafor is our LT?

CHOOSE
CB Jon Jones NB Marcus Jones
CB Jon Jones NB Wade
CB Wilson NB Jon Jones
CB Austin NB Jon Jones
CB Wade NB Jon Jones

 

[Zuma]

CHOOSE
CB Jon Jones NB Marcus Jones
CB Jon Jones NB Wade
CB Wilson NB Jon Jones
CB Austin NB Jon Jones
CB Wade NB Jon Jones

CB1 Gonzalez / Bolden
CB2 Wilson / Gilmore
CB3 J. Jones / M. Jones

CB2 and CB3 could have nothing to do with “better”. Chances are Douglas at WR3 will be “better” than who plays WR2. Who would you rather cover Douglas ?

 

[AQPE]

People focus a lot on height, which is understandable given that many WRs are in the 74” - 77” range and have great jumping height and hand size numbers. Most CBs are shorter than that, they have to be actually because their position requires agility and taller guys generally don’t have enough to have their body in the right position to break up a completion. So a CB is not going to win against a guy like that unless they are quicker, have great awareness of where the ball is, and really strong hands. I actually think the Pats have several guys that can get the job done, in particular J. Jones, M. Jones, and M. Wilson. My money’s on Wilson but this will be a key position battle for the camp.

I’m more concerned about FS than CB right now. They missed McCourty a lot last year as you would expect. He doesn’t get the credit he deserves, he was a great player here.

 

[Zuma]

I’m more concerned about FS than CB right now. They missed McCourty a lot last year as you would expect. He doesn’t get the credit he deserves, he was a great player here.

The thing is deep FS is no longer a full time gig with the Pats. It may be platooned with existing players.

 

[mgteich]

CB1 Gonzalez / Bolden
CB2 Wilson / Gilmore
CB3 J. Jones / M. Jones

CB2 and CB3 could have nothing to do with “better”. Chances are Douglas at WR3 will be “better” than who plays WR2. Who would you rather cover Douglas ?

OK, so your saying is that Jon Jones isn't qualified to be an outside corner, just as he isn't qualified to be a NT?


Have we ever used Jon Jones as an outside corner?

 

[Zuma]

OK, so your saying is that Jon Jones isn't qualified to be an outside corner, just as he isn't qualified to be a NT?


Have we ever used Jon Jones as an outside corner?

I have never said in this forum or anywhere else that Jon Jones isn't qualified to play outside CB. Show me where I said that he is not qualified. I said this “I want Jon Jones to be playing on the inside where his skills have allowed him to be the best player he can be, allows the team to be “better”.

You’re just being silly with the NT stuff…that’s my gig.

 

[Wozzy]

The coaching staff knows more about these men than we could ever post about. I like to look at who's in the lineup whenever a defensive unit takes the field. Who you see Starting tells us as fans what the coaching staff feels is the best match ups to have. Personally I don't care if it's Wilson, Austin, Wade.. I just want a big physical CB opposite Gonzo. Having 2 press man physical CBs on the outside limits what an offense can do.

Agree here, but to end last season Austin was starting because of injuries. If the coaches have no better option than they play who they have, even if it's Troy or Edelman at nickel back. We'll see how camp shakes out, these guys still need to go out stay healthy and compete. Austin might surprise and prove me wrong.

 

[mgteich]

I have never said in this forum or anywhere else that Jon Jones isn't qualified to play outside CB. Show me where I said that he is not qualified. I said this “I want Jon Jones to be playing on the inside where his skills have allowed him to be the best player he can be, allows the team to be “better”.

You’re just being silly with the NT stuff…that’s my gig.

Yes, of course is better inside. He also may be by far the best outside and the only one near being an average CB opposite Gonzo.

If Marchus or Wade can be an OK nickel, the (as was with Onwenu) we may be better off with having a solid starter outside and an Ok starter inside, this instead of having a very good starter inside and a developmental player or a subpar starter outside.

Sure, they may decide that one of the backups is a solid starter outside, As I said, my choice would be Wade outside if Jon plays inside. However, if some folks are right about Marcus, he may be ready to start at nickel, in which case it seems very right to play Jon outside.

 

[patman52]

We still have pelligrino he's the best CB coach in the business. I think these guys all got better last season.. most of them have been with the team for a while Wade In particular. I believe mayo and covington are content with who they have.. however I'm still open to them adding a veteran in camp.

It was nice to see Wade come around for sure.

 

[hornetfb85]

We are making this so f***ing complicated. It comes down to if the staff likes Austin or Wilson better at outside than M. Jones at slot. J. Jones will be starting at whichever position is the weakest.

Jo. Jones is solid at outside but one of the top slot corners. I think they want one of those outside guys to take the job. However, if M. Jones proves far enough ahead of those two in his role JJ is your #2.

 

[palialka]

A PLEA TO ADD A STARTUBG CORNER (outside or nickel).
The more I re-read my comments below, this becomes more and more clear to me. A top 5 Defense shouldn't be counting on Austin, Wilson and Bolden, although Bolden as a STer and as a future prospect at CB is certainly fine.

If we are really discussing the Defense as a top 10 or top 5 Defense, I think that we need to face some considerations.

The group beyond the top 2 is just not very good. Maybe they will be good in the future. They certainly aren't better now than average or better than average for a playoff team.
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The "TOP" THREE
Sure, we have Gonzo and Jon Jones as starters, both coming back from injuries. It is likely that Jon Jones is our best option outside opposite Gonzo.

Marcus Jones is certainly in the mix. He had an OK first year. He was an all-pro special teamer. Maybe he's ready to be the starting nickel back, but I suspect that he needs a bit more experience. And, of course, he too is coming back from injury. But pencil him in as the starting nickel back, the weakest starter on the Defense. The alternative of one of the rest as a starter outside (I'd choose Wade) is probably an even a greater liability as a starter that Marcus Jones. Of course, this player would also be the weakest starter on the Defense.

THE BEST BACKUP
WADE looked good last year, especially compared to the others. But is he really starter quality on a top Defense? To me, Wade is an experienced veteran and an OK backup.

BOTTOM LINE SO FAR
Gonzo, Jones, Jones and Wade are an OK set of corners and COULD be good enough to be a top 10 Defense. Bring in a starter to play outside opposite Gonzo or even a starting nickel back and this is a much better group of corners and good enough to be part of a top 5 Defense.
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MAYBE SOMEONE HERE WILL STEP UP (2-3)
There will 1-2 more roster spots at CB and possibly one more at backup FS.

BOLDEN looked good before he was injured. He will very likely be given a season to develop, especially since he was a top kick returner in college. Keeping Bolden would mean that we probably don't need to keep Reagor just to be a kick returner.

AUSTIN and WILSON are question marks that were brought in late and showed a bit. Both could make the 53 if we don't add any free agents and if DIAL doesn't make the 53, likely making the Practice Squad.

I guess the best case would be to sign a free agent and have only one of AUSTIN, WILSON and DIAL make the 53.

We’ll have to see how things shake out on camp, but I think Austin could end up being the CB3 or even CB2. I liked what I saw from him last season even though the sample size was small.

 

[Real fan 02]

We are making this so f***ing complicated. It comes down to if the staff likes Austin or Wilson better at outside than M. Jones at slot. J. Jones will be starting at whichever position is the weakest.

Jo. Jones is solid at outside but one of the top slot corners. I think they want one of those outside guys to take the job. However, if M. Jones proves far enough ahead of those two in his role JJ is your #2.

Agreed here. J. Jones as he was asked to play outside the last 2 seasons in wich he's very capable.. he is better suited as the slot CB wich we all agree. By the 2nd week of camp when the competition gets real we will see who's making strides. Entering camp the guys outside are Gonzo, Austin. The Jones boys were absent from mini camp so if they miss time then everyone we have at CB that's healthy will have added opportunity.

 

[Real fan 02]

Sure, we can change who plays what position lots of times depending on opponent.

And yes, just like in the OL, we need to consider both positions. Of course, Jon Jones is a better player inside, similar to Onwenu.

Which combination is best for the team? I'm not sure. Are you?
More to the point, given the alternatives, do we gain more with Jon Jones at NB or at CB.
I submit that I am much comfortable with Jon Jones at outside corner and looking to Marcus Jones and Wade at nickel.

The situation is indeed similar to that of Onwenu. In that case, one had to see the value of players at LR, RG and RT. I can see alternatives where Onwenu will be our RT yet again. What if neither Williams nor Anderson is ready to start, and as we thought, Okorafor is our LT?

CHOOSE
CB Jon Jones NB Marcus Jones
CB Jon Jones NB Wade
CB Wilson NB Jon Jones
CB Austin NB Jon Jones
CB Wade NB Jon Jones

CB 1 Gonzo
CB 2 Austin
Right now until we see Jon and Marcus practice we need to reserve everything else until we know for here they won't start camp on pup list.

 

[Zuma]

CB1 Gonzalez / Bolden
CB2 Wilson / Gilmore / Dial
CB3 J. Jones / M. Jones
SS Dugger / Peppers
FS Wade / Hawkins

 

[Real fan 02]

CB1 Gonzalez / Bolden
CB2 Wilson / Gilmore
CB3 J. Jones / M. Jones

CB2 and CB3 could have nothing to do with “better”. Chances are Douglas at WR3 will be “better” than who plays WR2. Who would you rather cover Douglas ?

 

[Zuma]

Wilson and Austin are practically identical in size. Both are the same weight and Austin might be one inch taller with Wilson starting 37 career NFL games while Austin had 1 due to injuries.