The inside story of the Patriots’ fall to rock bottom in the Bill Belichick era

[Steve102]

I think it's obvious we were better with Brady the previous 3 seasons than with Bill.

Math still gonna math, Brady wasn't out here producing 7 win seasons.

I don't want this to turn into another Brady thread but you can't ignore the facts. You could of kept Brady the previous 3 years instead of Bill if all we got out of it was a 4 win season in year 4. No one signed up for that.

These Bill lovers can't defend this ****. 4 years is PLENTY of time to rebuild a roster. 4 complete seasons without Brady and Bill managed to make the team worse than where Brady left it.
That's a fact.

No one is defending Bill anymore. Let it go and move on.

 

[Real fan 02]

chances are had he went with brady and let Bill go we have more wins and are in a better position today than we currently are.

there were rumors brady wanted them to fire bill and go with O'brien

Report is Bill told Bill Brady wasn't the same player and he was declining. I wonder if Bill said that after the 3 consecutive 3rd down completions at KC? or after the throw to gronk to seal the 2019 superbowl? The only person who was in decline was Bill. Brady won with another organization what's he done since.. hmmmm...

 

[Keyser Söze]

8 time Super Bowl winning coach that forgot more about collecting Lombardi's than Kraft's next hire will ever know!

Losing record post Brady…

 

[upstater1]

No one is saying Mac would be the anointed starter In 2024. The is a chance the new regime would keep Mac because his salary is cheap for a back up and try to fix him. In this scenario, the best he would be is given an opportunity to compete for the starting role with a top rookie QB and/or another veteran coming in.

Odds are Jones will be cut or traded though.

And just because Patricia’s offense produced more wins don’t mean it is better. The Patriots’ offense was more talented last year.

If they do this, it's proof positive the Krafts have lost their minds.

The guy is one of the worst QBs I've ever seen. Seems they don't know if they're watching football or rugby.

 

[festy1986]

No one is defending Bill anymore. Let it go and move on.

Are you reading the thread your replying in?

Surely you don't mean no one.

 

[festy1986]

Losing record post Brady…

Losing record pre Brady too.

It's almost like it was Brady.

 

[upstater1]

I just have so many questions about the staff in 2022 and 2023 on offense.

Things were good in 2021. They had Josh at OC and plenty of staff.

2022, Josh leaves. Bill could have promoted WR coach Mick Lombardi but chose not to. Mick leaves with Josh. Josh continues to poach staff, taking assistant QB coach Bo Hardegree and OL coach Carmen Bricillo. Bill finally blocks Josh when he tries to take TE coach Nick Caley, but also declines to promote Caley himself. Instead he brings in Patricia and Judge for their weird offensive plan but the staff is undermanned which certainly doesn’t help their ability to execute.

2023, BOB replaces Patricia. BOB takes both the OC role and QB coach role. Judge moves to help special teams. Nick Caley leaves and BOB adds his long time partner Will Lawing to fill that gap. They bring in Adrian Klemm as OL coach but he makes it a month into the season before taking a leave of absence.

Regardless of whether you think any of these guys are good or bad, it really shows how much drain and constant turnover there was, especially at positions which were underperforming. If Bill had just trusted and promoted guys already on his staff in 2022, there would have been continuity and maybe things would have turned out differently. If Bill would trust more guys in general and have a staff that’s not so small in the first place, there would be more guys to tap. You can see a similar issue in the front office where Caserio leaves after 2020, Ziegler is promoted for 2021 but then he also leaves in 2022 and they’re in a bad spot.

Do you have to take account for the people at all?

Caley and Lombardi don't have jobs in the league. Lombardi failed. He was out the door before McDaniels. Promotions shouldn't be automatic. There needs to be some assessment.

We actually spent a few years here criticizing Bricillo, remember?

 

[festy1986]

Report is Bill told Bill Brady wasn't the same player and he was declining. I wonder if Bill said that after the 3 consecutive 3rd down completions at KC? or after the throw to gronk to seal the 2019 superbowl? The only person who was in decline was Bill. Brady won with another organization what's he done since.. hmmmm...

He won with a organization that was on 2 decades of complete decline. A organization that has a history of losing.

He literally walked through those doors and won a ship for a team that wasn't even sniffing the playoffs before he got there.


That's a miracle

 

[Real fan 02]

Losing record post Brady…

Agreed! Looking like Cleveland Bill than the 8x champ. I'll keep saying this.. Brady left and won immediately.. why hasn't the 8x superbowl champ?..

 

[upstater1]

I think it's obvious we were better with Brady the previous 3 seasons than with Bill.

Math still gonna math, Brady wasn't out here producing 7 win seasons.

I don't want this to turn into another Brady thread but you can't ignore the facts. You could of kept Brady the previous 3 years instead of Bill if all we got out of it was a 4 win season in year 4. No one signed up for that.

These Bill lovers can't defend this ****. 4 years is PLENTY of time to rebuild a roster. 4 complete seasons without Brady and Bill managed to make the team worse than where Brady left it.
That's a fact.

Brady is retired. The 4 win season is this year. Brady did not play this year. Brady did not have more wins than the Patriots last year. You can have fantasies of 46 year old Brady this year, but that was never going to happen..

 

[festy1986]

Brady is retired. The 4 win season is this year. Brady did not play this year. Brady did not have more wins than the Patriots last year. You can have fantasies of 46 year old Brady this year, but that was never going to happen..

Try and follow the logic.

You traded 3 years of Brady for 4 years of Bill.

Was it worth it?

 

[upstater1]

or after the throw to gronk to seal the 2019 superbowl? The only person who was in decline was Bill. Brady won with another organization what's he done since.. hmmmm...

In your rage to get rid of Belichick, you've gone over the top to a level of absurdity.

The willingness to credit Brady for that throw or that game is crazy when even Brady said he had a subpar game.

And to say Belichick was in decline when the team gave up 3 points to one of the top 11 offenses in NFL history. IN A SUPER BOWL!!!

This game was the exact opposite of what you describe. Belichick deserves an immense amount of credit for that victory.

You put any other coach there and they don't win.

The absurd things I read on this board, amazing.

 

[upstater1]

Try and follow the logic.

You traded 3 years of Brady for 4 years of Bill.

Was it worth it?

No, of course not. All the old players left, you were rebuilding. Brady in a rebuild is not going to take you to the top. One QB can't do it. Brady went 8-9 last year, remember?

Let's even take Brady's first year in Tampa, the Cam Newton year in New England. Assume they extend Brady and they bring his cap hit into 2021 because they don't take it all in 2020 (remember, the Patriots took all their dead money from 2018, 2019, 2020 and they dumped it into 2020 in order to wipe the slate clean, they signed Newton for $1m). So then you move onto 2021, only now the slate hasn't been wiped clean. There is no Bourne, there is no Hunter Henry, there is no Matthew Judon. The team has even less talent than it did the previous year. With the addition of all the new players, the team goes 10-7. But guess what? That team was so old and so slow on defense, that the Bills scored 40+ in the playoffs without punting. They made Isaiah McKenzie look like Tyreek Hill out there. This was the definition of a rebuild. The players get old. You tear it apart and start new.

 

[festy1986]

No, of course not. All the old players left, you were rebuilding. Brady in a rebuild is not going to take you to the top. One QB can't dfo it. Brady went 8-9 last year, remember?

Let's even take Brady's first year in Tampa, the Cam Newton year in New England. Assume they extend Brady and they bring his cap hit into 2021 because they don't take it all in 2020 (remember, the Patriots took all their dead money from 2018, 2019, 2020 and they dumped it into 2020 in order to wipe the slate clean, they signed Newton for $1m). So then you move onto 2021, only now the slate hasn't been wiped clean. There is no Bourne, there is no Hunter Henry, there is no Matthew Judon. The team has even less talent than it did the previous year. With the addition of all the new players, the team goes 10-7. But guess what? That team was so old and sol slow on defense, that the Bills scored 40+ in the playoffs without punting. They made Isaiah McKenzie look like Tyreek Hill out there. This was the definition of a rebuild. The players get old. You tear it apart and start new.

Yes. Brady had a losing record his last year. Quite remarkable.

Bill has had 3 since then.

Also did you see the coaching Brady was working with?

I'm not saying it's smart to have a QB in his mid 40s to build around but in hindsight, we know for a fact that Bill was a horrendous choice.

You don't trade 3 years of Brady for 4 seasons of losing football and one inflated playoff blowout.


Bill had plenty of time to turn this around and he's actually going backwards.

 

[upstater1]

Agreed! Looking like Cleveland Bill than the 8x champ. I'll keep saying this.. Brady left and won immediately.. why hasn't the 8x superbowl champ?..

The answer is obvious.

The Patriots were rebuilding.

Brady went to a team with 12 Pro Bowlers.

I love Brady, I don't think they win anywhere close to 6 without him. I think they win 2! Maybe 3. But in a situation with all the players aging, and the young guys not developing quick enough, he went 8-9 last year. That's what would have happened in New England as well, given the rebuild.

It's a fact of life teams rebuild.

Now you can look at Belichick's record without him and completely strip away the context. But you'd get a distorted picture.

His career went like this: Went to Cleveland, switched from a horrible QB (for which he was blamed), inserted Testaverde who was excellent for them, went 11-5, made the playoffs, beat Parcells in the playoffs.

Modell announces he's moving the team before the season, the team craters, the players check out, Belichick is a dead man walking.

He comes to New England and takes over the defense. Team was 6-10 the year before, and suddenly under him the defense stops being a sieve and they go to the Super Bowl.

He moves on to the Jete and suddenly they are one of the best 4 teams in the league. Vinny Testaverde is excellent there, again proving how important a QB is.

He comes to New England and starts a rebuild, getting rid of some valuable Pro Bowlers and veterans in order to bring in guys that play the way he wants. Brady comes in, but he's not yet Brady, let's face it. The defense carries the team to the Super Bowl. How do I know it was the defense? Because Drew Bledsoe played the AFCCG at Pittsburgh, a game they won, and in the Super Bowl, the offense only scored one TD, yet they held the Greatest Show on Turf in check.

Over the next 20 years they win another 5 Super Bowls. When Brady isn't playing because of suspension or injury, they go 14-6 with Cassel, Garoppolo and Brissett. It's a small sample, but it's not nothing.

2020 the rebuild begins again. 2021 they choose the new QB Mac Jones. 53 of the current Patriots joined the team AFTER Mac. They are very young. What happened? They chose the wrong QB. A horrible QB. One of the worst we ever seen. He's so bad that even a guy like Zappe, who is a career backup at best, manages to go 4-3 as a starter.

This is essentially Bill's career. That's that context for his entire record.

 

[upstater1]

Yes. Brady had a losing record his last year. Quite remarkable.

Bill has had 3 since then.

Also did you see the coaching Brady was working with?

I'm not saying it's smart to have a QB in his mid 40s to build around but in hindsight, we know for a fact that Bill was a horrendous choice.

You don't trade 3 years of Brady for 4 seasons of losing football and one inflated playoff blowout.


Bill had plenty of time to turn this around and he's actually going backwards.

Haha, oh it was the coaching, eh? But it wasn't the coaching 2 years prior when all that talent won the Super Bowl!!!!

When you rebuild, you rebuild. If the QB you have is horrible (Mac Jones), you go back to the well and try again. Welcome to the NFL. This is how it is. No head coach is going to win games by himself. That's what rebuilding is all about.

But I'll say it again: when your QB is horrible, you're going to lose a lot of games.

When you QB is Mac or Newton, you're going to lose. When Belichick's QBs have been halfway decent, he's won a good amount of games.

 

[archstanton543]

The answer is obvious.

The Patriots were rebuilding.

Brady went to a team with 12 Pro Bowlers.

I love Brady, I don't think they win anywhere close to 6 without him. I think they win 2! Maybe 3. But in a situation with all the players aging, and the young guys not developing quick enough, he went 8-9 last year. That's what would have happened in New England as well, given the rebuild.

It's a fact of life teams rebuild.

Now you can look at Belichick's record without him and completely strip away the context. But you'd get a distorted picture.

His career went like this: Went to Cleveland, switched from a horrible QB (for which he was blamed), inserted Testaverde who was excellent for them, went 11-5, made the playoffs, beat Parcells in the playoffs.

Modell announces he's moving the team before the season, the team craters, the players check out, Belichick is a dead man walking.

He comes to New England and takes over the defense. Team was 6-10 the year before, and suddenly under him the defense stops being a sieve and they go to the Super Bowl.

He moves on to the Jete and suddenly they are one of the best 4 teams in the league. Vinny Testaverde is excellent there, again proving how important a QB is.

He comes to New England and starts a rebuild, getting rid of some valuable Pro Bowlers and veterans in order to bring in guys that play the way he wants. Brady comes in, but he's not yet Brady, let's face it. The defense carries the team to the Super Bowl. How do I know it was the defense? Because Drew Bledsoe played the AFCCG at Pittsburgh, a game they won, and in the Super Bowl, the offense only scored one TD, yet they held the Greatest Show on Turf in check.

Over the next 20 years they win another 5 Super Bowls. When Brady isn't playing because of suspension or injury, they go 14-6 with Cassel, Garoppolo and Brissett. It's a small sample, but it's not nothing.

2020 the rebuild begins again. 2021 they choose the new QB Mac Jones. 53 of the current Patriots joined the team AFTER Mac. They are very young. What happened? They chose the wrong QB. A horrible QB. One of the worst we ever seen. He's so bad that even a guy like Zappe, who is a career backup at best, manages to go 4-3 as a starter.

This is essentially Bill's career. That's that context for his entire record.

LOL! It's all Mac's fault!

Hahahahahahaah! Dude, seriously. You're making yourself look foolish. Mac is/was part of the problem. The biggest problem is BB's arrogance and hubris post-Brady.

 

[Nunchucks]

Jesus faulking christ with the Brady vs belichick thing. You people need therapy

 

[RIpats88]

Report is Bill told Bill Brady wasn't the same player and he was declining. I wonder if Bill said that after the 3 consecutive 3rd down completions at KC? or after the throw to gronk to seal the 2019 superbowl? The only person who was in decline was Bill. Brady won with another organization what's he done since.. hmmmm...

maybe brady looked in decline because he was throwing to ben watson/sanu with newhouse as his tacke. Bill left the offense out to dry.

just like he has again this year...

 

[RIpats88]

LOL! It's all Mac's fault!

Hahahahahahaah! Dude, seriously. You're making yourself look foolish. Mac is/was part of the problem. The biggest problem is BB's arrogance and hubris post-Brady.

If the roster was full of pro-bowl players on offense/defense and all-pros we could realistically blame Mac/zappe for everything.

problem is the roster is devoid of talent outside of the quarterback as well. any fans denying that are just putting their heads in the sand.