OT: Josh McDaniels Fired

[203Pat]

True, but they are the WORST.

As in every single coach, with their diverse background all around are better, all of them. And not all of them have competent QB, AFAIK

I understand the difference between causation and correlation, but it's a snapshot of a trend that could be true... our offensive system might be outdated, period.

I think the offensive system may be outdated but what is worse to me is that Bill can no longer evaluate who will work in the system. Basically the system may or may not be outdated but it is basically irrefutable at this point that the players he's plugging into it aren't a fit. No third down back since White got injured and retired. Offensive lineman who aren't blocking in the pass or the run game. No body in the Edelman, Welker, Brown, role. Bill can't even figure out who fits into the offense he's been running for two decades.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Seems to be a recurring theme with his disciples. McDaniels, Patricia, Mangini, Flores, Judge, and to some extent O'Brien.

Aside from being a weasel biatch, I thought Mangini would of been a great coordinator. His disloyalty protocol and lack of patience basically sealed his fate. In no way was he ready to be a head coach and the whole spygate thing made him not hireable.

 

[JayNM]

I think the offensive system may be outdated but what is worse to me is that Bill can no longer evaluate who will work in the system. Basically the system may or may not be outdated but it is basically irrefutable at this point that the players he's plugging into it aren't a fit. No third down back since White got injured and retired. Offensive lineman who aren't blocking in the pass or the run game. No body in the Edelman, Welker, Brown, role. Bill can't even figure out who fits into the offense he's been running for two decades.

Seems like this on my end too, tbh.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Josh did a good job here. Bringing him back would possibly promote him being the successor to BB and I just don’t want that. 3 years ago maybe, but he just failed again as a head coach for the 3rd time and I don’t want this team to be the 4th. Pretty obvious he doesn’t have a clue about being a hc. Either that or he doesn’t know how to communicate his vision to the team and owners.

No question. He is done as a HC

As an offensive coordinator? What’s honestly the best he could do for Mac Jones? Make him decent? Shave off a few pick 6’s?

He might get Mac to a higher level of mediocrity but if they trot out the same talent at o-line and the skill positions he'll have zero chance at rehabilitating Mac.

Put a solid o-line out there, a 3rd down RB, a FB, and a true WR1 and decent secondary receivers then he'll have a fighting chance.

With that said those floating INTs he throws every other game don't give me much hope.

 

[Love The Drake]

Aside from being a weasel biatch, I thought Mangini would have been a great coordinator. His disloyalty protocol and lack of patience basically sealed his fate. In no way was he ready to be a head coach and the whole spygate thing made him not hireable.

But Mangini wasn’t the one to blow the whistle to the league he just asked a Jets staffer to kick our camera guy out.
I always felt bad for Mangini in that.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Really good breakdown on this by Barnwell:

Josh McDaniels' bad decisions lead to Raiders firing: What's next?

Let's sort through the numerous questionable moves that led to McDaniels' firing. Plus, what lies ahead for the Raiders?

www.espn.com

Apparently Broncos players were concerned when he traded Cutler to Chicago. McDaniels actually had the nuts to tells Broncos players he could "turn any High School QB into an All Pro". As the article linked to that quote said, it looks like he started to believe this after Matt Cassel had a good season in 2008 - who hadn't played football since High School.

It seems as though we are seeing some delusion from these coaches. First we have Matt Patricia saying he was responsible for the 2014 Super Bowl win and now McDaniels believing he's the QB guru.

 

[Steve102]

I didn't go thru the whole 11 pages, but it's seem to me that the Raiders certainly didn't give them much time. a year and a half? There's gotta be more to the story. We know Brady certainly has a relationship with The Haircut, you'd think there'd be some sort of consultation or phone call.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I didn't go thru the whole 11 pages, but it's seem to me that the Raiders certainly didn't give them much time. a year and a half? There's gotta be more to the story. We know Brady certainly has a relationship with The Haircut, you'd think there'd be some sort of consultation or phone call.

When you think about it, that is a very short time for any head coach. However, I’ve taken in quite a few Raider games since he’s been there and his in game decisions, especially late in games have unforgivable sins. More tahan most coaches. Obviously there is also players like Adams and Jacobs just shutting down. Either they are little *****es or maybe Josh just rubbed that team the wrong way and didn’t exude any confidence or direction? His history is against him

 

[203Pat]

Also worries me that there is a chance Garapollo gets cut and ends up here and starts the last few games and we end up with the 12th pick instead of a 3-6 pick due to some meaningless wins down the stretch.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Fair. Maybe it's not the EP, but how it's taught (also speculation, in the end).

It's just be aware of the smoke signals, in a way

Exactly. It's how it's taught and implemented.

The argument is E/P is too hard and you need smart/experienced receivers to run it.

Back in the Steeler Roeth days they ran E/P and seemed to land decent WRs on a consistent basis and scored a bunch of points. No one ever accused Roeth, Santonio Holmes, Hines Ward or Brown as being high IQ football players.

I think Tom raised the level of complexity so they needed to be choosy with the type of offensive players they brought in here.

Once Tom left, in the effort to expand potential WR fits, they scaled back the playbook but clearly haven't figured out to to score points and are poor at finding consistently producing receivers not named Meyers.

 

[Thelonious]

I’d take him over BoB, he might be Macs last hope.

It's a really good question whether this is so. I'm not sure. It may be that the fits and starts and inconsistencies we see in Mac under BO'B's guidance are there because Bill is trying to get Mac to do a wider array of things, with greater autonomy, than Josh, who tended to keep Mac in a far more scripted and simpler place as he played, ever did. Bob, that is, is trying to teach Mac to be a full-featured NFL QB, whereas Josh - reasonably enough, given how early Mac was in his career - chose to get Mac to play as well as he could in the present, given where he was in his devlopment rather than, as I have suggested has been Bill's focus, trying develop his young charge.

This makes it a little harder to make a choice between these two OC options.

I will add that at this point in their careers, BO'B likely has and will have far more opportunities to move on from the Pats down the road - in the NFL or in college - than the now twice-failed Josh will have, making Josh more likely a long-term option. Maybe that tips the balance.

If I had to choose, assuming both options are actually available, I'd probably choose Josh. Josh obviously blows at managing an entire team, but I think he's really good in the intimate context of an OC/QB relationship, which is important, particularly given that whether it is Mac or someone else we are almost certainly gonna be in the business of seeing to the needs of a developing qb going forward. So I guess this post is an annoyingly roundabout way of saying I agree with you.

I assume, FWIW, that this will be a decision for next year, though I wouldn't object to Josh's inclusion in the shifting cloud of FOB's who clutter up the organizational chart, as an intermediate step.

 

[PatsFan2]

Also worries me that there is a chance Garapollo gets cut and ends up here and starts the last few games and we end up with the 12th pick instead of a 3-6 pick due to some meaningless wins down the stretch.

Unless some of our youngsters are world beaters ie...Thornton - Boutte that will not happen.

 

[Brotherblues]

Please no. One of my favorites of all time but I’m surprised he gets so much cushion. I’d rather them give Welker or Edelman a try.

Nah. I don't like having former faves tarnish their legacies. And in coaching that's inevitable.

 

[Rob0729]

Also worries me that there is a chance Garapollo gets cut and ends up here and starts the last few games and we end up with the 12th pick instead of a 3-6 pick due to some meaningless wins down the stretch.

Have you watched Garoppolo this year. He isn't playing any better than Mac. And he has Devante Adams rather than Parker.

 

[Thelonious]

Josh reminds me of Lord Clonfert, a character in The Mauritius Command, a volume in Patrick O'Brians Aubrey-Maturin series. Anybody know that book?

The Clonfert character was modeled on Captain Nesbit Willoughby. Here's a portrait: obviously a dead ringer for our Wandering Boy, Josh:

 

[NFL Mystique]

They have NYG, Colts, Vikings w/o Cousins, Chargers & Denver left. I see them winning two of those at minimum. Meaning they likely won't get a top five pick.

Might need to trade up for a QB at 2. It would take alot.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Nah. I don't like having former faves tarnish their legacies. And in coaching that's inevitable.

Welker seems to have had some good gigs. SF and then moved to Miami for a cush job.

Another former Pat with a lot of experience coaching is Shawn Jefferson.

 

[yukon cornelius]

 

[Patriot Missile]

They have NYG, Colts, Vikings w/o Cousins, Chargers & Denver left. I see them winning two of those at minimum. Meaning they likely won't get a top five pick.

Might need to trade up for a QB at 2. It would take alot.

Giants should be investigated for the tank job last Sunday . I hope that kicker enjoys his Marie Calendar’s gift certificate.

 

[203Pat]

Have you watched Garoppolo this year. He isn't playing any better than Mac. And he has Devante Adams rather than Parker.

Unless some of our youngsters are world beaters ie...Thornton - Boutte that will not happen.

Fair points. I just know Bill loves the guy but he does look to be close to the end.