Mac Not Happy With the Groceries

[RodThePat]

The issue is we get vague answers of how there are QB's capable of elevating the offense even if it wouldn't be a massive success. But I saw Patrick Mahomes have the worst game of his life with a terrible offensive line in the Super Bowl a couple years ago and I saw him play like crap without Kelce and a big name WR early this year. I saw Brady with better WR's but a swiss cheese line and lack of consistency in the WR corp having his first losing record last year. I saw Tua and Allen be viewed as near busts when their offense wasn't all that good. I've seen Rodgers miss the playoffs more than once and complain about his offense and even get his coach fired over it.

So I'm not sure where these magic QB's that are supposed to save the day and overwrite everything are.

Seriously people should ask themselves this. Was Joe Montana in an offense as bad as this ever? Was Tom Brady (the closest was what 2019 and he still had Edelman and Gordon for part of the year), was Peyton Manning? Was Patrick Mahomes? Was Aaron Rodgers? Was Drew Brees?

The problem is foundational team building failures. Not one guy.

Why was that the closest and not 2006 with Caldwell, Gaffney, Troy Brown in his final year, Chad Jackson, the ghost of Doug Gabriel? 6th in points per drive with that unit.

 

[upstater1]

For some reason fans equate acknowledging the roster is garbage with a defense of Mac Jones.

Two things can be true. Mac Jones may not be good and the roster can be absolute garbage

It's not going to improve much whomever you put back there. Our OL is giving up 50% pressure rate worst in the league. We are averaging 3.3ypc and our receivers are garbage.

All of these issues were brought up by the media in the offseason.

No one says they can't be true.

I believe they aren't true.

That's two entirely different things.

Mac is 90% of the problem here.

You continue to underestimate just how bad he is.

 

[PatsFan2]

Where is C Wentz these days?? We are desperate.

 

[upstater1]

The issue is we get vague answers of how there are QB's capable of elevating the offense even if it wouldn't be a massive success. But I saw Patrick Mahomes have the worst game of his life with a terrible offensive line in the Super Bowl a couple years ago and I saw him play like crap without Kelce and a big name WR early this year. I saw Brady with better WR's but a swiss cheese line and lack of consistency in the WR corp having his first losing record last year. I saw Tua and Allen be viewed as near busts when their offense wasn't all that good. I've seen Rodgers miss the playoffs more than once and complain about his offense and even get his coach fired over it.

So I'm not sure where these magic QB's that are supposed to save the day and overwrite everything are.

Seriously people should ask themselves this. Was Joe Montana in an offense as bad as this ever? Was Tom Brady (the closest was what 2019 and he still had Edelman and Gordon for part of the year), was Peyton Manning? Was Patrick Mahomes? Was Aaron Rodgers? Was Drew Brees?

The problem is foundational team building failures. Not one guy.

You underestimate the importance of a QB and how bad Mac really is

 

[PatsFan2]

You underestimate the importance of a QB and how bad Mac really is

He could have saved the key strokes too.

 

[lancerman]

I do believe we need a #1 WR! Yes, of course we do.

But put Baker Mayfield behind this line and yes the team wins 2 more games and sits at 3-2 right now.

It's not a playoff team or a contender without that #1 WR, but it's also not the 5th worst team in the NFL either.

When has Baker played on a worse offense? He got drafted on a team with Nick Chubb and Jarvis Landry and David Njoku as his primary offensive weapons and had a solid offensive line. He had one winning year (11-5). Which isn't much different than what Mac did in 2021. The last two years he only got 1 win a season. Now he's doing decent in Tampa with Evans, Godwin and decent line but he's only beaten two 1-4 teams and the Saints. So...

So I really don't see how Baker is going to improve this lol

 

[upstater1]

Why was that the closest and not 2006 with Caldwell, Gaffney, Troy Brown in his final year, Chad Jackson, the ghost of Doug Gabriel? 6th in points per drive with that unit.

Heck, Matt Cassell had a very good year in 2009, but he had Welker and Moss, yet by the middle of that year, it was clear that Randy Moss had checked out.

After them, the next guy was Jabar Gaffney with 30+ receptions

 

[RIpats88]

No one says they can't be true.

I believe they aren't true.

That's two entirely different things.

Mac is 90% of the problem here.

You continue to underestimate just how bad he is.

You need to wake up and accept Bill built a garbage roster. You really believe Mac is 90% of the problem? That's just blind defense of Bill B.

So just replacing Mac = wins and a top offense? The OL will start blocking and not giving up 50% pressure? The RBs will average more than 3.3ypc and somehow juju/Bourne/parker will turn into Tyreek hill/waddle?

That's a ridiculous notion. And I am in no way defending Mac Jones.

How do you explain zappe being 2-7 in this offense and 0-fer on 3rd down. The offense is rotten from the top down.

 

[Rob0729]

Bedard has been calling him "Back Foot Mac" and it seems like an apt nickname at this point. I think we just have our own version of David Carr as far as the mental aspect goes. Too many hits and too much chaos around him to ever step up and be the guy and it looks like Mac will end up as one of those "what if's?"

I listen PFW in Progress/Patriots Unfiltered and Mike Dussalt said that he talked to Mac's high school coach for a piece he was writing on Mac during his rookie year and apparently his coach back then said the same exact thing. From what I remember his high school coach said he would be too hard on himself and get in his own head and compound the issue. Sucks that issue is going to be his main downfall years later.

This is why I have given up hope that he could be a good QB with the right cast around him. I still think that to an extent, but you cannot get past that he has games where he goes into a complete funk and spirals like the last two games and the Raiders' game last year. It happens too frequently to risk having him as your QB for the future.

 

[upstater1]

When has Baker played on a worse offense? He got drafted on a team with Nick Chubb and Jarvis Landry and David Njoku as his primary offensive weapons and had a solid offensive line. He had one winning year (11-5). Which isn't much different than what Mac did in 2021. The last two years he only got 1 win a season. Now he's doing decent in Tampa with Evans, Godwin and decent line but he's only beaten two 1-4 teams and the Saints. So...

So I really don't see how Baker is going to improve this lol

He's better than mac. That's how. Don't tell me about perpetual head case Cleveland. It's a horror show there.

Let me say something here: I don't think Baker Mayfield is a good or average QB. All I'm saying is that he's better than Scott Secules.

 

[upstater1]

You need to wake up and accept Bill built a garbage roster. You really believe Mac is 90% of the problem? That's just blind defense of Bill B.

So just replacing Mac = wins and a top offense? The OL will start blocking and not giving up 50% pressure? The RBs will average more than 3.3ypc and somehow juju/Bourne/parker will turn into Tyreek hill/waddle?

That's a ridiculous notion. And I am in no way defending Mac Jones.

How do you explain zappe being 2-7 in this offense and 0-fer on 3rd down. The offense is rotten from the top down.

You underestimate how bad Mac is.

 

[RIpats88]

He could have saved the key strokes too.

Do you guys honestly believe this is a 1 man fix? That's delusional.

The roster is not good top to bottom. And this is no defense to Mac Jones.

The media can see it, most of the fans can see it. But the Bill bobos think all is well.

I think we need to watch zappe get destroyed out there starting. But even then Bill cannot be criticized. Zappe just wasn't good enough...

 

[PatsFan2]

Do you guys honestly believe this is a 1 man fix? That's delusional.

The roster is not good top to bottom. And this is no defense to Mac Jones.

The media can see it, most of the fans can see it. But the Bill bobos think all is well.

I think we need to watch zappe get destroyed out there starting. But even then Bill cannot be criticized. Zappe just wasn't good enough...

Yess .

 

[RIpats88]

You underestimate how bad Mac is.

Mac makes Bourne/juju/parker average and our OL not able to hold basic blocks?

If you believe really that the roster is fine. More power to you.

 

[RIpats88]

Yess .

Yess to you are delusional? You HONESTLY believe our WR and OL are talented enough?

But hey anything to defend bill!

 

[lancerman]

You underestimate the importance of a QB and how bad Mac really is

And you underestimate how bad the team is independent of Mac. I gave you several examples of QB's who are well renowned and played horribly on teams that weren't as bad as this and you didn't bother to engage and just went right to a meaningless platitued.

Which telsl me this is more about desperate fans and wishful thinking.

Here's just the reality, many of us saw this season coming a mile away. Not because of the QB, but because of how much of a ****show the off season was. You'll never find a better example of QB elevating talent than Tom Brady in the history of the league. He had a losing record last year on a better offense and the last time he was here he had a much better defense to lean on and people were still calling him washed and frankly, we'd probably kill to get back to what we had on offense in 2019.

There's nobody coming here to save us. There's no one player fix.

 

[Jim Beankie]

San Fran and Miami's pocket time is a testament to how important great offensive talent is needed. Both Purdy and Tua have the luxury to make their first read and get rid of the ball quickly (as you stated). I bet at times their option isn't even open when they release the ball, but the QBs can trust that they will be open by the time the ball is there.

Whoever is the QB next year even if it is Caleb Williams who is supposed to be a generational talent, they absolutely must get him receivers who can get open quickly. It is important for today's NFL because speed is everything now.

That's my take on the data as well. This is the 1st year (so far) in a while where we didn't have a burner playing very consistent snaps, so the between the sticks specialists had more room to operate underneath. Imho, one of the reasons why Jakobi was able to be so relatively successful was because he had Byrd, Agholor, and Thornton to 1) open things up underneath and 2) take the faster CB.

I'm only a football caveman, but my suggestion would be to always have a top end speed guy on most snaps. Right now, that's Boutte, Reagor, or Thornton when he comes back. I don't count DD, as he's more of the jitterbug type of quick dude. There is no over the top threat between Bourne (borderline), Parker, JS, Henry, and Gisecki. Imho, it's a similar problem that LV is running into even with Jakobi and a supreme talent like Adams (similar speed profile to Bourne). Their longest completion so far this year is 32yds! Dinking and dunking for sustained success seems to require way more luck nowadays.

 

[upstater1]

Do you guys honestly believe this is a 1 man fix? That's delusional.

The roster is not good top to bottom. And this is no defense to Mac Jones.

The media can see it, most of the fans can see it. But the Bill bobos think all is well.

I think we need to watch zappe get destroyed out there starting. But even then Bill cannot be criticized. Zappe just wasn't good enough...

I think we've all said they need a #1 WR.

You're wrong about the roster.

I have no idea what Zappe has to do with any of this. I haven't seen anyone mention him.

 

[RIpats88]

And you underestimate how bad the team is independent of Mac. I gave you several examples of QB's who are well renowned and played horribly on teams that weren't as bad as this and you didn't bother to engage and just went right to a meaningless platitued.

Which telsl me this is more about desperate fans and wishful thinking.

Here's just the reality, many of us saw this season coming a mile away. Not because of the QB, but because of how much of a ****show the off season was. You'll never find a better example of QB elevating talent than Tom Brady in the history of the league. He had a losing record last year on a better offense and the last time he was here he had a much better defense to lean on and people were still calling him washed and frankly, we'd probably kill to get back to what we had on offense in 2019.

There's nobody coming here to save us. There's no one player fix.

It's pure delusion. Because if you accept the roster is garbage. That means Bill has totally screwed up and this is not even a one offseason fix.

 

[upstater1]

And you underestimate how bad the team is independent of Mac. I gave you several examples of QB's who are well renowned and played horribly on teams that weren't as bad as this and you didn't bother to engage and just went right to a meaningless platitued.

Which telsl me this is more about desperate fans and wishful thinking.

Here's just the reality, many of us saw this season coming a mile away. Not because of the QB, but because of how much of a ****show the off season was. You'll never find a better example of QB elevating talent than Tom Brady in the history of the league. He had a losing record last year on a better offense and the last time he was here he had a much better defense to lean on and people were still calling him washed and frankly, we'd probably kill to get back to what we had on offense in 2019.

There's nobody coming here to save us. There's no one player fix.

It's funny that I have gone through great pains to explain how I see it, so much so that the response is tl;dr from a lot of people.

I have a very long post in this very thread just 2 pages back.

So save me the claim that I don't engage.