Game Day Thread Official Post Game Day Thread- Pats beat the Jets

[Bill Lee]

Speaking of coaches getting cut:

 

[PatsFan2]

Speaking of coaches getting cut:

You like??

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

Bill is not bringing in a outside guy who’s not under his coaching tree and this late in the season this would either negatively impact the offense or his voice would be ignored and overruled my Matty P and Bill either way,

 

[PScottman]

Just curious, would you take Daboll + Daniel Jones over say, Josh McDaniels + Mac Jones?

Because I've been watching the Giants each week (live in NY state) and I'm convinced Daboll is moving on from Jones.

I say this because Daboll has Jones playing within himself, he has him running, but the guy is just so inaccurate.

In a vacuum of other criteria?

I think it's probably a wash.

Both Daboll and McDaniels seem to get production from QBs, with Daboll seemingly a little more consistent looking at McDaniels' Denver, St Louis, and now Vegas stints.

I think the question you're asking instead is which is better at grooming lesser skilled QBs to get the most out of them OR maybe which calls a better game for said QB types?

Ultimately, this is one of those questions that decamps into player skill versus coaching as the prime ingredient of winning NFL football when ultimately the answer, as boring as it is, is "both".

 

[Kasmir]

Lazar's article is a good read:

After Further Review: Breaking Down Mac Jones's Performance, Defense's Big Day vs. Jets

The Patriots earned a much-needed win over the Jets on Sunday.

www.patriots.com

 

[rochrist]

In a vacuum of other criteria?

I think it's probably a wash.

Both Daboll and McDaniels seem to get production from QBs, with Daboll seemingly a little more consistent looking at McDaniels' Denver, St Louis, and now Vegas stints.

I think the question you're asking instead is which is better at grooming lesser skilled QBs to get the most out of them OR maybe which calls a better game for said QB types?

Ultimately, this is one of those questions that decamps into player skill versus coaching as the prime ingredient of winning NFL football when ultimately the answer, as boring as it is, is "both".

Well, Carr is having his worst year since 2017 under Boy Genius.

 

[upstater1]

In a vacuum of other criteria?

I think it's probably a wash.

Both Daboll and McDaniels seem to get production from QBs, with Daboll seemingly a little more consistent looking at McDaniels' Denver, St Louis, and now Vegas stints.

I think the question you're asking instead is which is better at grooming lesser skilled QBs to get the most out of them OR maybe which calls a better game for said QB types?

Ultimately, this is one of those questions that decamps into player skill versus coaching as the prime ingredient of winning NFL football when ultimately the answer, as boring as it is, is "both".

No, I'm actually saying who do you think is going to be the better QB? Sorry I wasn't clear.

I was responding to the idea that some of these guys might pan out in year 3 or 4. It seems it might indeed pan out for the Giants because they're doing so well.

But this is the kind of thing where the coach and situation is making it seem a whole lot better.

If you switch these 2 guys you'd see different results for the players, but not for their teams.

 

[SVN]

lol

 

[Bill Lee]

Patricia and judge are here becuase pertinent to the NFL rules, patriots don't have to pay thier salaries.

That's a silly narrative. Think of how much money the team saved once Josh McD and all the guys he took with him were off the budget. There was more than enough money in the budget for Bill to get anyone he wanted. Kraft gets a check for $150M before the first snap of the season from the NFL. The fact is Bill wanted both Matt and Joe, has nothing to do with their salaries.

 

[Bill Lee]

Kinda interesting, no?

 

[Bill Lee]

Speaking of coaches getting cut:

Bill is not bringing in a outside guy who’s not under his coaching tree and this late in the season this would either negatively impact the offense or his voice would be ignored and overruled my Matty P and Bill either way,

Brady fans take another L.

 

[Rob0729]

lol

If Wilson is coachable and got a good teacher, he has the physical skills to be an elite QB. I just doubt he is coachable and would learn not to get sped up every time he is pressured.

 

[Zuma]

lol

Mac might be struggling this season so far but in no way, shape or form is Wilson a better QB.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I was hoping that the Pats would bring in the guy from Liberty. There was another guy, I forget if it

Chris Klenakis? I like him as well. No nonsense and was part of the staff when Lamar won a Heisman.

was Georgia

Matt Luke stepped down last year and Stacey Searels took over. Luke can coach but I'm not sure he'd fit with Bill but that's pure speculation on my part. I really like Searels though! I'd take him in a second. No nonsense guy that I believe would be a better fit. Ton of big time experience. And he's developed some good players. Not that the others haven't but Stacey can coach.

or NC State..

Im a big fan of John Garrison

@BaconGrundleCandy probably remembers..

 

[Bill Lee]

If Wilson is coachable and got a good teacher, he has the physical skills to be an elite QB. I just doubt he is coachable and would learn not to get sped up every time he is pressured.

Thing is, da Jete drafted this guy from a mid-sized program (BYU) and everyone knew he'd be a project at the NFL level. If they were being honest, they should have also seen they failed to develop Darnold, so should not have relied on their ability to develop raw QBs. Wilson has a decent arm, but pretty much nothing else you'd want to see in a NFL QB. Also they spent much of their recent draft capital on defense, and knew their OL was sh!tty so he'd have no time in the pocket. SOFJ. No idea on how to build a team. Would have been better off with a NFL-ready guy, ya know, like Mac Jones. Da Jete are primarily focusing on making a splash on the back pages of the NY tabloids during draft season, not on building a functional team. In case you haven't heard, da Jete SUCK!

 

[Sicilian]

Thing is, da Jete drafted this guy from a mid-sized program (BYU) and everyone knew he'd be a project at the NFL level. If they were being honest, they should have also seen they failed to develop Darnold, so should not have relied on their ability to develop raw QBs. Wilson has a decent arm, but pretty much nothing else you'd want to see in a NFL QB. Also they spent much of their recent draft capital on defense, and knew their OL was sh!tty so he'd have no time in the pocket. SOFJ. No idea on how to build a team. Would have been better off with a NFL-ready guy, ya know, like Mac Jones. Da Jete are primarily focusing on making a splash on the back pages of the NY tabloids during draft season, not on building a functional team. In case you haven't heard, da Jete SUCK!

The worst thing they did for him was hand him the starting QB job, rather than letting him earn it and learn behind a vet for a year. When they started training camp his rookie season, the guy on the team with the most career pass attempts was actually one of their wide receivers. There was NO competition for him at the QB spot. For all the faults of Cam Newton (and there were many), he at least provided a veteran floor that Mac had to beat out to start week 1.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

If Wilson is coachable and got a good teacher, he has the physical skills to be an elite QB. I just doubt he is coachable and would learn not to get sped up every time he is pressured.

This story is as old as time. Of course a QB picked in the top 5 will have all the physical tools to be an elite QB. Name one who wasn’t? Every one of them can “make all the throws.” That’s why they were picked top 5. Whether they eventually succeed will depend on their ability to understand the routes and where their teammates and the defense will be, and their ability to make smart decisions under pressure. That’s always been the case. Peyton was able to harness it and become a great QB. Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russell weren’t. Many others fell somewhere in between.

 

[Rob0729]

Thing is, da Jete drafted this guy from a mid-sized program (BYU) and everyone knew he'd be a project at the NFL level. If they were being honest, they should have also seen they failed to develop Darnold, so should not have relied on their ability to develop raw QBs. Wilson has a decent arm, but pretty much nothing else you'd want to see in a NFL QB. Also they spent much of their recent draft capital on defense, and knew their OL was sh!tty so he'd have no time in the pocket. SOFJ. No idea on how to build a team. Would have been better off with a NFL-ready guy, ya know, like Mac Jones. Da Jete are primarily focusing on making a splash on the back pages of the NY tabloids during draft season, not on building a functional team. In case you haven't heard, da Jete SUCK!

Darnold wasn't nearly as talented as Wilson is in pure raw talent. Darnold was more of a Sanchez clone. Wilson should have a higher ceiling. But Wilson has more than a decent arm and is pretty athletic. They didn't call him the Mormon Mahomes in college for nothing. He will never be remotely as good as Mahomes, but they have similar strengths.

But the Jets have a defensive head coach with a younger OC with not a huge amount of experience. As you said, they just do not know how to develop a QB.

 

[Rob0729]

This story is as old as time. Of course a QB picked in the top 5 will have all the physical tools to be an elite QB. Name one who wasn’t? Every one of them can “make all the throws.” That’s why they were picked top 5. Whether they eventually succeed will depend on their ability to understand the routes and where their teammates and the defense will be, and their ability to make smart decisions under pressure. That’s always been the case. Peyton was able to harness it and become a great QB. Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russell weren’t. Many others fell somewhere in between.

The thing is I bet a lot of these high first round busts are busts not because they are all potential and no execution, but they are poorly developed. If Trevor Lawrence went to a good team with good management and coaching, I bet he would be a rising star in the league right now. Unfortunately, the Jags are going to ruin him and severely limit his ceiling. I think the Jets are doing the same with Wilson, although Wilson seems pretty immature and I wonder if he is coachable even with good coaching and management.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Mac might be struggling this season so far but in no way, shape or form is Wilson a better QB.

Wilson (and Trey Lance) had a ton of trouble reading the second level of the defense in college. Difference was/is, Wilson is more reckless. Just has major trouble in that part of the field. Which tells me you're having trouble in a specific area in your pre/post snap checklist which is about 9-10 boxes but specifically when you're looking at and trying to read, the read defender and that area of the field. He's had a ton of bad plays and almost bad plays in that area and I think it's bc he has trouble or isn't the most efficient deciphering those defenders. Whether those birds are reading you, the WR's release or a specific target. It tells you a lot already about what to expect from someone but maybe more importantly where someone is going to be.

He got away with it in college mostly bc of the different spacing and talent disparity but that's something that won't go away in the pros for obvious reasons.



First thing 99.9999% of QB's do is find the Saf structure, possible rotations and go from there. And even come back there after checking the front but I'm guessing he's having trouble in a specific area for w/e reason and just not sure where guys will be at (landmarks) It's just been an issue forever.