Is Mac the guy for the future?

[Triumph]

Um, I'm seeing a lot of posts blaming Mac, including yours.

Im the minority.

Take a good look around and the poll for "Mac the guy" is 42% YES and gaining traction.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Im the minority.

Take a good look around and the poll for "Mac the guy" is 42% YES and gaining traction.

So if Mac is responsible for picks in the first quarter of his second year, a majority of people should give up on him? Sorry, I'm not really sure what you're trying to say.

 

[Rob0729]

Derrick Henry

Indy beat the 2021 post season Cardinals, Bills, 49ers and your Mac Jones Patriots.

But you cant win with a strong run game. The Jets went to back to back AFC Championships with Mac Sanchez and a top 5 run game both seasons. The Patriots won last year with a stout run game and defense.

A dynamic WR cant throw himself the football.

Jones long passes are never over thrown with too much arm out of reach for the WR. The throws are like geese landing on a pond. Word travels fast in the NFL so look for more INTs when he tries to go long.


Jones job is to find the open guy and safest throw. Harris was all alone on one of the INTs, but Jones thought that gambling down field was better. 5 INTs and a fumble return for a TD through only 3 games.

Its gone back to blame others for the QBs poor play.

So far this board is blaming - Patricia, Andrews, Wynn, Parker, New offense, Bourne not playing, The draft and no playmakers, BB.

Again, Derrick Henry was injured for a large chunk of last year and the Titans still had the best record in the AFC.

The Jags beat Buffalo. And guess what? They missed the playoffs just like the Colts.

We saw last week with Miami vs the Ravens, a dynamic WR can make up for a poor performance by a QB. Hill had to make up for underthrown balls by Tua on both TDs.

You praise Tua and his passes are just like Mac Jones. Maybe worse.

Jones has had some problems on individual plays finding the open man, but so do most second year QBs. He is 11th in the league in completion percentage. He is one spot higher than Tom Brady. You are overstating his ability to find the open receiver. He is making too many mistakes this year, but don't act like the guy is Zach Wilson who cannot find the open man even if the other team doesn't even field a defense.

And you are just blaming Mac Jones. I never said Jones is free of blame. He deserves his fair share of blame. You want to put most or all of the blame for this team's woes on Mac Jones. The Ravens scored 37 points on Sunday. That isn't all on Mac Jones. Nelson Agholor's reception and fumble was a beautiful pass that would have been a huge play and possibly a game changing moment if Agholor didn't allow the ball be popped out of his hands. That isn't on Jones either.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

So far this board is blaming - Patricia, Andrews, Wynn, Parker, New offense, Bourne not playing, The draft and no playmakers, BB.

There is no "I" in team

 

[Triumph]

There is no "I" in team

But there is INT in Macintosh.

 

[Triumph]

Again, Derrick Henry was injured for a large chunk of last year and the Titans still had the best record in the AFC.

The Jags beat Buffalo. And guess what? They missed the playoffs just like the Colts.

We saw last week with Miami vs the Ravens, a dynamic WR can make up for a poor performance by a QB. Hill had to make up for underthrown balls by Tua on both TDs.

You praise Tua and his passes are just like Mac Jones. Maybe worse.

Jones has had some problems on individual plays finding the open man, but so do most second year QBs. He is 11th in the league in completion percentage. He is one spot higher than Tom Brady. You are overstating his ability to find the open receiver. He is making too many mistakes this year, but don't act like the guy is Zach Wilson who cannot find the open man even if the other team doesn't even field a defense.

And you are just blaming Mac Jones. I never said Jones is free of blame. He deserves his fair share of blame. You want to put most or all of the blame for this team's woes on Mac Jones. The Ravens scored 37 points on Sunday. That isn't all on Mac Jones. Nelson Agholor's reception and fumble was a beautiful pass that would have been a huge play and possibly a game changing moment if Agholor didn't allow the ball be popped out of his hands. That isn't on Jones either.

Tua made a great throw for a TD. A bullet at the ear of his WR that gave the DB no time to turn and defend it. A weak arm wobblily throw would have likely been INTed.

This is the exact same Drew Bledsoe debate that the team has failed to find Jones great players. Nevermind that on the Parker INT Jones had Agahlor wide open but either did not see him (typical) or threw it hoping it all would be ok. On Jones INT directly to the Ravens LB, Jones had Harris all alone on the sideline what would have been an easy 10 yards at least.

Surely you can come with a theory why the INTs are not Mac Jones fault.

 

[TomPatriot]

This is the exact same Drew Bledsoe debate that the team has failed to find Jones great players. Nevermind that on the Parker INT Jones had Agahlor wide open but either did not see him (typical) or threw it hoping it all would be ok. On Jones INT directly to the Ravens LB, Jones had Harris all alone on the sideline what would have been an easy 10 yards at least.

Surely you can come with a theory why the INTs are not Mac Jones fault.

Mac is making mistakes this year he didn’t make last year and not improving on his weaknesses from last year. Why is that? No one criticizing him seems to have an answer. What’s wrong with this picture? By process of elimination . . .

 

[patsinthesnow]

Brady in 2019 without a #1 option:

4,057 yards 24 TDs 8 INTs 88.0 passer rating

The pats as a team in 2020:

3,124 yards 12 TDs 14 INTs 81.1 passer rating

Mac Jones’ career:

4,587 yards 24 TDs 18 INTs 89.9 passer rating

Whether the pats had the GOAT, a QB who couldn’t throw or a promising rookie they’ve struggled with passing effiency. They’ve had a weapons problem on offense for four years & arguably five since they squeezed everything they had out of Gronk & Edelman in 2018.

Supporting cast is the most important contributing factor towards a QB’s production. Brady proved that in 2006, 2013 & 2019 as well as this year with the bucs. Tua & Hurts were below average QBs that have elevated their game with better weapons. There are many examples including Murray with & without Hopkins, Josh Allen with Diggs & Stafford with Odell.

Mac’s stats with Meyers as his #1 option are respectable. Do I think he’s the guy? Who knows but adding a WR that teams have to put extra attention to would help in knowing his ceiling.

Every WR drafted in the top 15 the last two years:

Drake London 8
Garrett Wilson 10
Chris Olave 11
Jameson Williams 12

Ja’Marr Chase 5
Jaylen Waddle 6
DeVonta Smith 10

It may be 6/7 hits already with Williams on IR. WRs are more pro ready now than they’ve ever been. Long way to go but if this season goes south the team should add a difference maker at the position in the draft because they aren’t getting one in FA IMO.

 

[Love The Drake]

Tyquan Thornton is a difference maker.
Wait til he gets going.
Everyday missing out on great receivers and missing on Harry who some people had over Metcalf Brown and Samuel looks worse and worse.
It’s a terrible thing when you put your resources your time and money in a player to realize that they will never get it.

 

[Rob0729]

Tua made a great throw for a TD. A bullet at the ear of his WR that gave the DB no time to turn and defend it. A weak arm wobblily throw would have likely been INTed.

This is the exact same Drew Bledsoe debate that the team has failed to find Jones great players. Nevermind that on the Parker INT Jones had Agahlor wide open but either did not see him (typical) or threw it hoping it all would be ok. On Jones INT directly to the Ravens LB, Jones had Harris all alone on the sideline what would have been an easy 10 yards at least.

Surely you can come with a theory why the INTs are not Mac Jones fault.

You are talking about one 12 yard pass that Jones could have thrown. You ignore the two longer passes he threw the same exact type of balls you kill Jones for (big arching touch balls) that were underthrown that the receiver had to slow down or stop to catch.

And you are talking about a handful of games for Jones. And Jones at times vs. the Ravens played great. He had a lot of zip on the ball and hit receivers downfield in stride. Here are some of his good passes from this game that you seem to want to ignore.









And anyone who thinks that Jones has great weapons is insane. He has a decent weapons, but nothing approaching a number one receiver.

Jones could go either way. He has shown that he has the ability and intelligence to be a top 10 QB, but he has also shown he might end up falling far short of that. It is unknown which way he will go at this time.

Let's face it. You are not objective. You practically want Jones to fail. As far as I can remember, you have been practically routing for his failure since he got here. I don't know if you are just Team Brady or you just were against the pick and want to prove you are right. But your analysis of the guy is way over the top.

 

[sb1]

Could be worse. Imagine the Patriots traded up for Fields like some of us wanted and got this output from their QB minus the premium draft picks they would have had to give to the Giants? I actually like the kid but I'm sure not many of us would have tolerated seeing this.



The sack numbers Even if you have the worst OL (and the Bears don't) there's no good reason for a QB like Fields with his mobility to take the sacks that he does. 10 sacks in 3 games projects that he's on pace for 57 sacks this season. Yikes

 

[Rob0729]

Could be worse. Imagine the Patriots traded up for Fields like some of us wanted and got this output from their QB minus the premium draft picks they would have had to give to the Giants? I actually like the kid but I'm sure not many of us would have tolerated seeing this.

View attachment 45799

The sack numbers Even if you have the worst OL (and the Bears don't) there's no good reason for a QB like Fields with his mobility to take the sacks that he does. 10 sacks in 3 games projects that he's on pace for 57 sacks this season. Yikes

It is funny. Everyone touted the 2021 QB draft class as being a historic class for QBs with people thinking possibly all of the top 5 QBs selected becoming top QBs in the league. Right now, the only one who seems remotely likely is Lawrence, but even he is falling far short of being a generational talent as most thought he would be. I even remember some people comparing this draft class to 1983.

As of right now, Wilson, Fields, and Lance are trending bust and Jones is still a question mark what his ceiling could be. Things could change over time, but Davis Mills in the third round is either out performing or on par with most or all of these guys. I think Jones can become a top 10 QB, but I think it is doubtful for the other three first rounders.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You are talking about one 12 yard pass that Jones could have thrown. You ignore the two longer passes he threw the same exact type of balls you kill Jones for (big arching touch balls) that were underthrown that the receiver had to slow down or stop to catch.

And you are talking about a handful of games for Jones. And Jones at times vs. the Ravens played great. He had a lot of zip on the ball and hit receivers downfield in stride. Here are some of his good passes from this game that you seem to want to ignore.









And anyone who thinks that Jones has great weapons is insane. He has a decent weapons, but nothing approaching a number one receiver.

Jones could go either way. He has shown that he has the ability and intelligence to be a top 10 QB, but he has also shown he might end up falling far short of that. It is unknown which way he will go at this time.

Let's face it. You are not objective. You practically want Jones to fail. As far as I can remember, you have been practically routing for his failure since he got here. I don't know if you are just Team Brady or you just were against the pick and want to prove you are right. But your analysis of the guy is way over the top.

he throws a fairly accurate ball but there is no zip on his throws.

 

[Rob0729]

he throws a fairly accurate ball but there is no zip on his throws.

There are at times. Not necessarily the ones I showed. But those are the plays I could find.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Do you think he is driving the ball deep, and doing so causing it to sail, or at times even float? Mechanical? Mental? Trying to put too much on those types of throws?

Depends on the throw. But he has this thing that he does where he throws flat-footed with a follow-through where those throws have a higher arc, albeit he tends to be relatively accurate with them and they drop straight down. Others he makes where he steps into them and they have a lower arc and they're tougher to pick off if the receiver can't get to them (they end up as overthrows) but they have to be high enough where the defensive back can't deflect it.

Both have moments where they work, but the first one doesn't work if the receiver is well-covered or in the end zone, that's more for when they get behind a defender and can catch it in-stride. I don't think he angled the end zone throw as well, although with everything going on, I haven't had a chance to look at it more closely yet.

I think he has to just figure out what works and what doesn't and what type of window he can throw each one in. Obviously, it's different in the NFL compared to college where defensive backs close on the ball a lot faster. It's not like he doesn't have some experience having played in the SEC, but clearly, with this being the first year he's really pushing it downfield, he hasn't figured it out yet. At the same time, a couple of his turnovers have come with someone about to drill him, which given how often he's been hit, I'm sure it played a factor.

He's a smart kid and people are killing him when we're only three games into his first season where they've started testing what he can/can't do. I think the "this is who he is" determination really can't be made until you've seen a larger sample size before he gets crucified. I still believe that some of what's going on could be coaching where they're (ie: Matt) telling him not to check it down and just throw it, which I feel like - if that is indeed the case - further complicates things. The one positive is the fact they're 100% behind him, which given what's going on, at least doesn't make the situation any more difficult.

I talked about this in another post recently, last week i think but can't seem to find it on search. Pre-draft I talked about his mechanics, release and I believe two issues are still hurting him.

Anyway ... and I'm not an expert. I mean I am but not everyone can farm, build a magnificent city and be a footballs guy.

Mac doesn't really utilize core or hips on certain passes. The torque or rotation just doesn't seem to be on certain passes and I believe it's bc he's trying to drop it in a bucket. Iow he'll sacrifice some strength & velocity for accuracy, placement and touch. That's just a guess as to why but he's been inconsistent utilizing his hips as before the pros.

I talked about his release as well and I believe that's a little inconsistent too in terms of release point. I'm sure that's something he's been working on.

I thought his footwork was could always be better dropping back after a snap specifically.

 

[Patnation21]

Depends on what you're happy with. He's not a top 10 type QB. He will win you some games but he's not gonna carry a team. I personally don't think he can win a SB but hope I'm wrong. Being in the AFC East, we have to deal with Allen for 10+ years and possibly Tua IF he is for real which I have doubts.

The issue for me is great QB's aren't easy to come by and can take a long long time to find one. I don't know what the answer is to be honest. I think the best thing to do right now is ride with him and get him some ****ing help ASAP and hope that he keeps making inprovements. If by the end of this year he still isn't showing much improvement it's time to think about finding his replacement.

Mac was the most NFL ready QB in that draft, after two years we should be seeing big improvements. I've seen lots of people using Josh Allen as a comparison on how long it took Allen to get really good. Allen was a known project out of the draft, he wasn't supposed to be good for a few years if at all so you can't compare them.

 

[Toofy]

If you start to think on a rational level, self included, probably these are growing pains that we need to get used to . We had a splendid 20 years. We are not gonna get it back. But what we can do is in the name of impatience screw up the next 5-6 years . The drafts have been bad and masked by brady. But now with no Brady and how the league has moved I expect belichick and team to also give far more importance to draft and possibly Thornton and strange were steps on that direction to get day 1 players from rookie batch .

Now coming onto Mac, save for those brain fades, Mac did do a great job moving the ball. Parker was coming to the party and running game was also chugging along nicely. It's just unfortunate that Mac had an injury on last play of the drive. We could have seen his development from game 4 to game 9 and possibly we are a stronger team in December.

Now am I certain Mac is the guy. Probably not. But we can't be certain till we give him 3 or 3.5 seasons . Else we will become the jets or browns.

Even the uber talented Justin Herbert has not played a playoff game yet . So there must be something in Mac that helped us get over the bridge last year . His play might not be glamorous but possibly get the job done .

For now, we just need to hope Hoyer channels his inner Brady and chops the opposition with his Axe(l silent).

If cooper rush can be undefeated , there is possibility for Hoyer as well this season. No pressure and sometimes you perform the best 2hen there are 0 expectations on you .

 

[Love The Drake]

We have Archie Manning come to the NFL in a few seasons I would move mountains to grab him or the frshsman from Penn State.

 

[Love The Drake]

If I’m the Pats I put in a call about Drew Lock I still think he can give you something.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Mac's still potentially good. He's got some tiny tiny chance of succeeding in the eyes of a fan base that's had Brady for nearly 2 decades He's got a decent chance of being "the man," even though in 3 games this year he didn't light it up.

The thoughts on his arm strength are at present correct. It's an area in need of attention. It can get better, one would hope - how much better is anyone's guess. But as of right now he's just not *that* guy. But while he won't be throwing the ball 60 yards in the air, as we saw with Parker, when he gets on the right page with receivers he can throw what? Lethal rainbows or something?

For all those hoping that a high ankle sprain "gets him out of the way," Nah. Couple years more, unless Hoyer goes down and Zappe is something he's never been in the NFL.