Week 2 Pats @ Steelers pregame thread

[Tunescribe]

Thanks but I think Mac has to see it too and stepping up would help Trent Brown. Not sure big Trent can get all the way outside to pick up a speedy outside rusher. If Mac steps up one or two steps it helps Trent's angle tremendously. Mac does not seem to have a lot of pocket presence including all the way back to the preseason where he ran backwards into sacks. He seems a bit allergic to shuffling forward in the pocket a bit while looking downfield. Brady does that so well.

I'm just passing along what veteran players-now commentators said about who was responsible for the strip-sack. Ted Johnson tonight even diagrammed the play and demonstrated in a walk-through what Brown SHOULD have done. You can doubt them if you want, I defer to their knowledge of the pro game.

No one said Mac shared responsibility; from that standpoint I'd assume his eyes were elsewhere by design. I think Mac should be cut a LOT of slack feeling his way through a new offense. Comparing his pocket presence (or alleged lack thereof) to Brady really isn't fair. Don't agree with this idea of being "allergic to shuffling forward while looking downfield," I think his pocket presence has been solid for his experience level.

 

[Patsgofor4]

Thanks but I think Mac has to see it too and stepping up would help Trent Brown. Not sure big Trent can get all the way outside to pick up a speedy outside rusher. If Mac steps up one or two steps it helps Trent's angle tremendously. Mac does not seem to have a lot of pocket presence including all the way back to the preseason where he ran backwards into sacks. He seems a bit allergic to shuffling forward in the pocket a bit while looking downfield. Brady does that so well.

Phil Perry also put the blame on Brown, after talking (off-the-record) to some Patriots sources, who echoed what Belichick said postgame….that they had the guys to block all of the Dolphins’ rushers but f-ed it up. Of course, the spin on 98.5 today was a baby said that in order to deflect blame from the coaching staff. Morons.

Like is was early in 2021, the OL is the biggest issue on offense right now.

 

[Sciz]

Phil Perry also put the blame on Brown, after talking (off-the-record) to some Patriots sources, who echoed what Belichick said postgame….that they had the guys to block all of the Dolphins’ rushers but f-ed it up. Of course, the spin on 98.5 today was a baby said that in order to deflect blame from the coaching staff. Morons.

Like is was early in 2021, the OL is the biggest issue on offense right now.

That tweet makes no sense. On the majority of passing attempts, we don’t know if Jones had three seconds or not because he threw it in under three seconds despite not being under imminent pressure. It’s absurd to equate every quick pass to being under pressure.

 

[Tunescribe]

Phil Perry also put the blame on Brown, after talking (off-the-record) to some Patriots sources, who echoed what Belichick said postgame….that they had the guys to block all of the Dolphins’ rushers but f-ed it up. Of course, the spin on 98.5 today was a baby said that in order to deflect blame from the coaching staff. Morons.

Like is was early in 2021, the OL is the biggest issue on offense right now.

People in New England need to watch this show "The Breakdown" on NBCSB with Ted Johnson and Phil Perry, it usually airs Monday evenings after Sunday Pats games. Johnson diagrams key plays, explains them, then demonstrates further in walk-throughs.

Too many folks here with "a little" football knowledge think they've got it all figured out watching a game on TV. What might seem obvious often isn't, which is why it's prudent to continually educate oneself with help from proven experts.

 

[TheRainMaker]

The strip-sack was 100-percent on Trent Brown. This has been explained by: Matt Cassel, Christian Fauria, Adam Archuleta and again tonight by Ted Johnson, who both diagrammed the play and demonstrated what SHOULD have happened. Henry's assignment was running the route and he had no responsibility for chipping or picking up the blitz. Brown's eyes should've been left and he should have communicated to Ferentz and Andrews he'd be kicking out to pick up the free rusher.

I'm just passing along what veteran players-now commentators said about who was responsible for the strip-sack. Ted Johnson tonight even diagrammed the play and demonstrated in a walk-through what Brown SHOULD have done. You can doubt them if you want, I defer to their knowledge of the pro game.

No one said Mac shared responsibility; from that standpoint I'd assume his eyes were elsewhere by design. I think Mac should be cut a LOT of slack feeling his way through a new offense. Comparing his pocket presence (or alleged lack thereof) to Brady really isn't fair. Don't agree with this idea of being "allergic to shuffling forward while looking downfield," I think his pocket presence has been solid for his experience level.

Strange and Brown took on the same guy, so there's clearly a communication error between them. You then see Brown look at the DB like "whoops".

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I'm just passing along what veteran players-now commentators said about who was responsible for the strip-sack. Ted Johnson tonight even diagrammed the play and demonstrated in a walk-through what Brown SHOULD have done. You can doubt them if you want, I defer to their knowledge of the pro game.

No one said Mac shared responsibility; from that standpoint I'd assume his eyes were elsewhere by design. I think Mac should be cut a LOT of slack feeling his way through a new offense. Comparing his pocket presence (or alleged lack thereof) to Brady really isn't fair. Don't agree with this idea of being "allergic to shuffling forward while looking downfield," I think his pocket presence has been solid for his experience level.

Phil Perry also put the blame on Brown, after talking (off-the-record) to some Patriots sources, who echoed what Belichick said postgame….that they had the guys to block all of the Dolphins’ rushers but f-ed it up. Of course, the spin on 98.5 today was a baby said that in order to deflect blame from the coaching staff. Morons.

Like is was early in 2021, the OL is the biggest issue on offense right now.

Thanks to both for your responses.

I am not criticizing Mac only noting where he can improve IMO. BTW after the preseason Mac said he had to step up in the pocket. Not sure how to assess he is "solid for his experience ". That seems like conjecture to me. Clearly Mac has to improve his footwork and delivering passes to the border. I don't think his arm strength is weak, the high balls that drop in a bucket are ideal if Mac hits the bucket.

It is very interesting about Mac's time to throw. My response would be that is a function of being a 2nd year QB. Teams since last year stack the box and blitz which is daring Mac to beat them on the outside. Until Mac starts beating that defense (it worked for the Dolphins) teams will keep doing it. I am sure the Pats will adjust.

I would love to watch Mac step up, not throw off his back foot, and deliver a ball down the sideline to Agholor or Bourne or other for a TD. Two of those and everything will change.

 

[Deus Irae]

The Steelers were hopeful that running back Najee Harris avoided a serious injury when he left Sunday’s overtime win over the Bengals and it appears that hope has been realized.

Harris hurt his foot, which was cause for concern given the Lisfranc injury that Harris dealt with this summer. Adam Schefter of ESPN reports that all tests came back negative on Monday, however, and that the current feeling is that Harris will be ready to go against the Patriots in Week Two.

Report: Najee Harris should be good to go against Patriots - ProFootballTalk

 

[gitgronked82]

My take is that it was on Henry. From the replays I saw, he didn't even look in the direction of the defender.

Sometimes tight ends are given free releases- it’s not their job to chip or check for a rusher. That very well may have been on Trent.

Really hard to discern the net effects of injuries in this one. Watt and Harris are definitely out vs. Jones being hobbled, but possibly playing with the pain. (I’ve had back spasms - I moved like an elderly man for weeks, but I didn’t have medical care/trainers,) Seems like the net effects might favor us, but we’ll have to see…

Najee is expected to play

The strip-sack was 100-percent on Trent Brown. This has been explained by: Matt Cassel, Christian Fauria, Adam Archuleta and again tonight by Ted Johnson, who both diagrammed the play and demonstrated what SHOULD have happened. Henry's assignment was running the route and he had no responsibility for chipping or picking up the blitz. Brown's eyes should've been left and he should have communicated to Ferentz and Andrews he'd be kicking out to pick up the free rusher.

Could you post those?

 

[Tunescribe]

Thanks to both for your responses.

I am not criticizing Mac only noting where he can improve IMO. BTW after the preseason Mac said he had to step up in the pocket. Not sure how to assess he is "solid for his experience ". That seems like conjecture to me.

You were comparing Mac's pocket footwork to Brady, who's the proven master in that area. But even Brady in his second year had much to improve upon. Having attended every home game he's played (which gives me a better field view than TV), I've seen no glaring deficits thus far in Mac's pocket presence; it's not conjecture. Problems normally manifest in bailing early, taking too many sacks or not stepping into throws and like I said, Mac's been solid for his experience level. The finer points you're looking for a la Brady hopefully will develop in time. A lot of this depends on consistently reliable OL protection, though.

 

[Tunescribe]

Sometimes tight ends are given free releases- it’s not their job to chip or check for a rusher. That very well may have been on Trent.


Najee is expected to play

Could you post those?

Here you go:

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

You were comparing Mac's pocket footwork to Brady, who's the proven master in that area. But even Brady in his second year had much to improve upon. Having attended every home game he's played (which gives me a better field view than TV), I've seen no glaring deficits thus far in Mac's pocket presence; it's not conjecture. Problems normally manifest in bailing early, taking too many sacks or not stepping into throws and like I said, Mac's been solid for his experience level. The finer points you're looking for a la Brady hopefully will develop in time. A lot of this depends on consistently reliable OL protection, though.

I agree mostly. You must not have watched the third preseason game or you would have seen some glaring deficits. I am not comparing to Brady, I do not think like that, I am only saying that Brady was great at it so we got used to seeing someone highly skilled. Mac was heavily scripted last year, and they are letting him move and run more this year. His footwork and reactions from last year are not relevant, this year is new and interesting because the shackles are off and we get to see Mac develop. I agree that Mac will develop in time - I am not impatient - but I would like those "over the shoulder" throws to Smith and Agholor to be "in the neighborhood". Mac missed those very important throws by a lot.

 

[jimnance]

I got big respect and admiration for Flores.
Tomlin? Haha you trippin'

 

[Tunescribe]

I agree mostly. You must not have watched the third preseason game or you would have seen some glaring deficits. I am not comparing to Brady, I do not think like that, I am only saying that Brady was great at it so we got used to seeing someone highly skilled. Mac was heavily scripted last year, and they are letting him move and run more this year. His footwork and reactions from last year are not relevant, this year is new and interesting because the shackles are off and we get to see Mac develop. I agree that Mac will develop in time - I am not impatient - but I would like those "over the shoulder" throws to Smith and Agholor to be "in the neighborhood". Mac missed those very important throws by a lot.

If Mac had the continuity of McDaniels and the same system I believe we'd be seeing him pick up where he left off last year. I put zero stock in the what -- two series? -- from the third preseason game, especially THIS preseason. I think a lot of people are underestimating how big an adjustment this new system/new coaching has been not only for Mac but for all the offensive players. Especially where McDaniels' passing scheme was based on precise timing routes, it doesn't surprise me things are looking rough thus far by comparison. It's easy to blame the quarterback for what look like bad throws that sometimes aren't his fault entirely; everyone needs to be on the same page.

 

[PatsWSB47]

You were comparing Mac's pocket footwork to Brady, who's the proven master in that area. But even Brady in his second year had much to improve upon. Having attended every home game he's played (which gives me a better field view than TV), I've seen no glaring deficits thus far in Mac's pocket presence; it's not conjecture. Problems normally manifest in bailing early, taking too many sacks or not stepping into throws and like I said, Mac's been solid for his experience level. The finer points you're looking for a la Brady hopefully will develop in time. A lot of this depends on consistently reliable OL protection, though.

So, yes if you want to compare Mac an Brady over their first 2 years you can find something approaching an equivalence but speculating that it might continue career-wise is pretty unlikely. Brady broke the mold in my opinion.

 

[jimnance]

You were comparing Mac's pocket footwork to Brady, who's the proven master in that area. But even Brady in his second year had much to improve upon. Having attended every home game he's played (which gives me a better field view than TV), I've seen no glaring deficits thus far in Mac's pocket presence; it's not conjecture. Problems normally manifest in bailing early, taking too many sacks or not stepping into throws and like I said, Mac's been solid for his experience level. The finer points you're looking for a la Brady hopefully will develop in time. A lot of this depends on consistently reliable OL protection, though.

Yup. I believe it was after that 2002 season that Brady sought out help to improve his movement in the pocket. I know he worked with some basketball guys in Cali and that's when he started with the resistance bands.
In 2003,his movement in the pocket was light years better than before. He's the best I've ever seen at moving effectively in the pocket.
Thats,all learned behavior. It was Brady's desire and maniacal work ethic.
We've all seen shades of that from Mac.
I believe in this kid. He'll keep improving. He's a looong way from his ceiling.

 

[Tunescribe]

Yup. I believe it was after that 2002 season that Brady sought out help to improve his movement in the pocket. I know he worked with some basketball guys in Cali and that's when he started with the resistance bands.
In 2003,his movement in the pocket was light years better than before. He's the best I've ever seen at moving effectively in the pocket.
Thats,all learned behavior. It was Brady's desire and maniacal work ethic.
We've all seen shades of that from Mac.
I believe in this kid. He'll keep improving. He's a looong way from his ceiling.

He needs to keep improving physically and what he did this past off-season was encouraging. Another thing Brady mastered that I'd also like to see Mac emulate is how to take a hit/how to hit the ground after being hit. Brady's overall durability and ability to bounce back from getting smacked are peerless among QBs.

 

[jimnance]

He needs to keep improving physically and what he did this past off-season was encouraging. Another thing Brady mastered that I'd also like to see Mac emulate is how to take a hit/how to hit the ground after being hit. Brady's overall durability and ability to bounce back from getting smacked are peerless among QBs.

Yeah and both Brady and Mac are tough.
That's big because there's plenty of nfl qbs who aren't really tough.
But Brady has the knowhow Mac doesn't have yet plus far superior physical conditioning. Give Mac a few years and we'll see.
There was also a point in Bradys career where he started throwing lasers on intermediate throws. It took him a few years to do that. Mac can improve on that as well. We're still a few years away from knowing how good he can be.

 

[slash83]

Any word on Phillips?

 

[Rob0729]

.
Mac did not look either. Vintage Mark Sanchez right there.

How many times did we watch Brady scan the defense and size blocking schemes up?

The QB's job is to identify the Mike and try to identify the defense and make adjustments based on that. The o-line and the TEs (at least in some cases with the TE) is responsible for identifying the blocking assignments. There is only so much a QB can do in the 10-20 seconds or so between time the offense gets to the line and the ball is snapped.

And Brady has had his fair share of unblocked blindside free rushes to him over the years.

 

[Rob0729]

You were comparing Mac's pocket footwork to Brady, who's the proven master in that area. But even Brady in his second year had much to improve upon. Having attended every home game he's played (which gives me a better field view than TV), I've seen no glaring deficits thus far in Mac's pocket presence; it's not conjecture. Problems normally manifest in bailing early, taking too many sacks or not stepping into throws and like I said, Mac's been solid for his experience level. The finer points you're looking for a la Brady hopefully will develop in time. A lot of this depends on consistently reliable OL protection, though.

The one problem I see with Jones' pocket presences is that he tends to try to buy time by moving backwards. Unfortunately, that will move him right in the direction of the defender on plays where the tackles use the defender's momentum to drive them beyond the pocket.