Wickersham book discussion

[Ring 6]

This isn't about a winner. Not at all. This is about what is behind these scathing revelations directed at Bill.

Rumor and innuendo not revelation.

 

[sb1]

So who turned the power off in the Pats locker room at halftime in Super Bowl 52?

What is Nick Wright's alibi? LOL

 

[Ring 6]

Never said it wasn't. But it was a bad pass.

He threw it to the spot he needed to because of the coverage, as he had dune all year long.

 

[Pape]

It wasn't a great pass but it was there. Bad pass to me would have been a complete miss or a hospital ball or a Cam Newton ball. LOL

High, behind, wrong shoulder. Wes had to jump and twist to just get hands on it...

But he did get hands on it...

So, bad pass, bad drop.

Dunno what else I can say on the matter beyond that.

 

[italian pat patriot]

So who turned the power off in the Pats locker room at halftime in Super Bowl 52?

This is real weird...

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Never said it wasn't. But it was a bad pass.

I've looked at it a zillion times and broken it down on here using gifs, and I realize people will have different opinions, but this is what I strongly believe. The play is a fairly routine pass by Brady who puts the ball in the right area; if you want to get down to milimeters, that's a different story. It's a pass that gets caught about 99% of the time.

The play is essentially an optical illusion from the broadcast angle; it appears as though Welker has a very difficult catch because the ball is off target, causing him to whip lash back towards it. In reality, if you slow it down and look at the still images, he has a certain catch and is turning to gain more yards upfield. The problem is he mis-times the pass, closes too quickly. and doesn't assure the catch before turning.





The problem is that he closes his hands to quickly, right on the nose of the ball.



As for the optical illusion, I referred to...take a look at Welker's body as the ball comes out. Within a fraction of a second, he realizes it's dropped (because it's punched off his closed hands). He immediately reaches his arms towards the ball in hopes of recovering it, and his leg whips around to try to change direction towards the loose ball. That's why it appears, especially from the broadcast angle, that Welker had to whip his body towards the ball in an attempt to make a tough catch. In reality, the unnatural body movement is a second attempt to reposition and catch.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Thought I’d make one topic for this where it all can go in here.

NFL Rumors: Why Bill Belichick, Eric Mangini Nearly Had Fistfight In 2008

Bill Belichick reportedly nearly had a fistfight with former Patriots defensive coordinator Eric Mangini at the 2008 league meetings.

nesn.com

Belichick nearly had a fist fight with Eric the Rat?

“At the 2008 league meetings, Belichick and then-New York Jets head coach Eric Mangini nearly had a fistfight,” ESPN wrote. “After a dinner for head coaches, Julie Mangini, wife of Eric, bumped into Belichick and said hi, trying to ease tension after the post-Spygate fallout. Belichick blew her off, and when she told Eric what had happened, he charged across the room and needed to be held back by other coaches from swinging at Belichick. ‘Hey Bill, (expletive) you!’ Mangini yelled.”

Gee, what team is the Rat coaching today?

 

[Pape]

I've looked at it a zillion times and broken it down on here using gifs, and I realize people will have different opinions, but this is what I strongly believe. The play is a fairly routine pass by Brady who puts the ball in the right area; if you want to get down to milimeters, that's a different story. It's a pass that gets caught about 99% of the time.

The play is essentially an optical illusion from the broadcast angle; it appears as though Welker has a very difficult catch because the ball is off target, causing him to whip lash back towards it. In reality, if you slow it down and look at the still images, he has a certain catch and is turning to gain more yards upfield. The problem is he mis-times the pass, closes too quickly. and doesn't assure the catch before turning.

View attachment 36554

View attachment 36557

The problem is that he closes his hands to quickly, right on the nose of the ball.

View attachment 36556

As for the optical illusion, I referred to...take a look at Welker's body as the ball comes out. Within a fraction of a second, he realizes it's dropped (because it's punched off his closed hands). He immediately reaches his arms towards the ball in hopes of recovering it, and his leg whips around to try to change direction towards the loose ball. That's why it appears, especially from the broadcast angle, that Welker had to whip his body towards the ball in an attempt to make a tough catch. In reality, the unnatural body movement is a second attempt to reposition and catch.

View attachment 36553

What can I say Ice? I'm not really arguing with anyone here.

Welker should have caught it. No doubt.
Brady could have thrown a much better ball. He was in a clean pocket. He had time.

Bad Drop.
Bad Pass.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I've looked at it a zillion times and broken it down on here using gifs, and I realize people will have different opinions, but this is what I strongly believe. The play is a fairly routine pass by Brady who puts the ball in the right area; if you want to get down to milimeters, that's a different story. It's a pass that gets caught about 99% of the time.

The play is essentially an optical illusion from the broadcast angle; it appears as though Welker has a very difficult catch because the ball is off target, causing him to whip lash back towards it. In reality, if you slow it down and look at the still images, he has a certain catch and is turning to gain more yards upfield. The problem is he mis-times the pass, closes too quickly. and doesn't assure the catch before turning.

View attachment 36554

View attachment 36557

The problem is that he closes his hands to quickly, right on the nose of the ball.

View attachment 36556

As for the optical illusion, I referred to...take a look at Welker's body as the ball comes out. Within a fraction of a second, he realizes it's dropped (because it's punched off his closed hands). He immediately reaches his arms towards the ball in hopes of recovering it, and his leg whips around to try to change direction towards the loose ball. That's why it appears, especially from the broadcast angle, that Welker had to whip his body towards the ball in an attempt to make a tough catch. In reality, the unnatural body movement is a second attempt to reposition and catch.

View attachment 36553

Chris Collinsworth is no Patriots lover (remember him throwing shade on the Pat's victory after Butler's pick by bringing up deflategate?) However, even he has said that that is a catch Welker makes "99 out of a hundred times."

 

[venecol]

Review: What new Patriots book explains about Bill Belichick, Tom Brady, and Robert Kraft

What we learned from reading Seth Wickerham's new book on the Patriots' dynasty.

www.boston.com

That was a waste of 3 min. of my life. Just a plug for the book.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

What can I say Ice? I'm not really arguing with anyone here.

Welker should have caught it. No doubt.
Brady could have thrown a much better ball. He was in a clean pocket. He had time.

Bad Drop.
Bad Pass.

Sorry if I'm coming across as combative...my main point is that I don't think people see the lunged arms and leg whip for what they really are, which is a second stab at the ball. When I saw the play live, I thought it was a bad pass. I think Welker's second mistake (besides the physical mistake) was not realizing he was better off planting and securing the ball without the need for YAC. It seems Brady throws the ball with exactly that goal in mind, as you have defenders closing in on both sides, and with the game situation as it was, securing the first down is essential whereas breaking off another 7 yards is fairly inconsequential.

But whatever...we'll never know for sure. I honestly wonder if they win anyway; I know they had a big clock advantage if that's completed, but it was one of those games where they shot themselves in the foot like 20 times, the ball bounced the wrong direction like 10 times. Gave away a safety, threw a terrible fourth quarter pick. I felt like, from the kickoff (if not the weeks leading up to the game), they were losing no matter what...just a sinking feeling about that matchup and the Giants being full of luck again.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Chris Collinsworth is no Patriots lover (remember him throwing shade on the Pat's victory after Butler's pick by bringing up deflategate?) However, even he has said that that is a catch Welker makes "99 out of a hundred times."

Exactly what I said...now I'm concerned about my mental capacity.

 

[Pape]

Sorry if I'm coming across as combative...my main point is that I don't think people see the lunged arms and leg whip for what they really are, which is a second stab at the ball. When I saw the play live, I thought it was a bad pass. I think Welker's second mistake (besides the physical mistake) was not realizing he was better off planting and securing the ball without the need for YAC. It seems Brady throws the ball with exactly that goal in mind, as you have defenders closing in on both sides, and with the game situation as it was, securing the first down is essential whereas breaking off another 7 yards is fairly inconsequential.

But whatever...we'll never know for sure. I honestly wonder if they win anyway; I know they had a big clock advantage, but it was one of those games where they shot themselves in the foot like 20 times, the ball bounced the wrong direction like 10 times. Gave away a safety, threw a terrible fourth quarter pick. I felt like, from the kickoff (if not the weeks leading up to the game), they were losing no matter what...just a sinking feeling about that matchup and the Giants being full of luck again.

that play was just one of many things that went wrong that day.

RED hoodie anyone??? wtf was he thinking??????

 

[Steve102]

Maybe Wickersham could write a book about all the terrible stuff going on behind the scenes with the football team in Washington.
Just kidding, it doesn't involve the Patriots.

There's the real story, but it's not going to happen, because ESPN is in bed with the NFL. It'll take a real news organization to do it, not one who's profits are tied to the league's success.

 

[Pape]

He threw it to the spot he needed to because of the coverage, as he had dune all year long.

yeah ring i get that... welker had a bad drop... but brady should have thrown a better ball from a clean pocket is all...

im not blaming any one person.

i blaming both those bastards

 

[Pape]

There's the real story, but it's not going to happen, because ESPN is in bed with the NFL. It'll take a real news organization to do it, not one who's profits are tied to the league's success.

never mind espn... its not going to happen because the league front office ie roger goodell is digging just as fast as he can to bury as much of the snyder **** as possible... there's a new stadium on the line for the skins in the near future

 

[TheRainMaker]

I've looked at it a zillion times and broken it down on here using gifs, and I realize people will have different opinions, but this is what I strongly believe. The play is a fairly routine pass by Brady who puts the ball in the right area; if you want to get down to milimeters, that's a different story. It's a pass that gets caught about 99% of the time.

The play is essentially an optical illusion from the broadcast angle; it appears as though Welker has a very difficult catch because the ball is off target, causing him to whip lash back towards it. In reality, if you slow it down and look at the still images, he has a certain catch and is turning to gain more yards upfield. The problem is he mis-times the pass, closes too quickly. and doesn't assure the catch before turning.

View attachment 36554

View attachment 36557

The problem is that he closes his hands to quickly, right on the nose of the ball.

View attachment 36556

As for the optical illusion, I referred to...take a look at Welker's body as the ball comes out. Within a fraction of a second, he realizes it's dropped (because it's punched off his closed hands). He immediately reaches his arms towards the ball in hopes of recovering it, and his leg whips around to try to change direction towards the loose ball. That's why it appears, especially from the broadcast angle, that Welker had to whip his body towards the ball in an attempt to make a tough catch. In reality, the unnatural body movement is a second attempt to reposition and catch.

View attachment 36553

The downside to midget WR’s- the margin of error is extremely small.

I played QB in high school and threw to guys who were 6’3 and 5’7. Unless the pass was perfect, the 5‘7 guy would have a hard time catching it because he has such a small wingspan. I’d have arguments with the smaller guy as the 6’3 guy would easily snatch the pass out of the air.

Just goes to show how accurate Tom Brady has been throughout his career throwing to midgets.

With that being said, the pass should've been caught. Everyone at the Super Bowl party I was at cringed at that drop and none of them were Pats fans.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The downside to midget WR’s- the margin of error is extremely small.

I played QB in high school and threw to guys who were 6’3 and 5’7. Unless the pass was perfect, the 5‘7 guy would have a hard time catching it because he has such a small wingspan. I’d have arguments with the smaller guy as the 6’3 guy would easily snatch the pass out of the air.

Just goes to show how accurate Tom Brady has been throughout his career throwing to midgets.

With that being said, the pass should've been caught. Everyone at the Super Bowl party I was at cringed at that drop and none of them were Pats fans.

If Welker catches it, then it’s first down at around the 20/15 with 4:00. With a Giants timeout and the two minute warning, the Patriots would still need another first down to win. If they didn’t get it, a field goal still makes it just 20-15. The game was not really “sealed” by that catch but it sure would have helped. If you believe the Giants final drive would still happen the same way, it would mean the ensuing three plays for the Patriots would have decided the game.

One thing I wondered at the time was whether they considered going for 4th and 11 at the Giants 44. We saw 4th and 13 in SB42 which made no sense. Here, a punt changes possession and you’re gaining 30 yards of field position. The Giants are also more likely to consume more clock time on their drive if they score, whereas if they get the ball at the 44 it seems the fate of their drive is known sooner and the Patriots have more time with the ball. 4th and 11 isn’t a high probability play, but it’s a reasonable risk. Convert it and the game is firmly in your hands.

 

[Steve102]

never mind espn... its not going to happen because the league front office ie roger goodell is digging just as fast as he can to bury as much of the snyder **** as possible... there's a new stadium on the line for the skins in the near future

All's it will take is one news organization that hates football and it'll be on. Goodell's house or cards will crumble. I don't think it'll happen only because any reporter good enough to dig into this is either beholden to the league (sports reporter) or won't have the access. To your point, that gives Goodell time enough to make sure this thing never sees the light of day.

 

[Ring 6]

yeah ring i get that... welker had a bad drop... but brady should have thrown a better ball from a clean pocket is all...

im not blaming any one person.

i blaming both those bastards

Eh, teams win and teams lose, so im not very wrapped up in the blame game.