Reiss: Pats should Thank Niners for Passing on Mac

[Zuma]

How many Superbowls would Luck have won if he were with the Pats and not Brady...or no ?

 

[scott99]

I have no doubts that Mac will be a really good QB in the NFL. But let’s pump the breaks a little. Maybe a year or 2 down the road we can revisit.

It was only a little over a year ago, before they signed Cam, supposed leaks were coming out that they didn’t draft a QB in the 2020 draft, because they felt REALLY good about Stidham.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Andrew Luck was a "generational" prospect (Elway, Peyton, Luck, Lawrence). He was living up to it, but getting his ass kicked in the process, and he didn't survive long enough, as a result.

People ignore a lot when they denigrate his game.

Year one: 11-5, WC loss (to SB champion Ravens)
Year two: 11-5, WC win, DR loss (to Brady)
Year three: 11-5, WC win, DR win, AFCCG loss (to Brady)
Year four: Injury riddled season cut short
Year five: Injury riddled season cut short
Year six: Lost season due to injury
Year seven: 10-6, WC win, DR loss (To Mahomes)


I think it's fair to point out that he didn't get to the point of discretion sometimes being the better part of valor soon enough, and I think it's fair to say that he had started to show a little bit of the David Carr shellshock problem by the end. Outside out that, he was doing just fine.

Luck was a very good pro quarterback…great at times. It was clear from his talent why he was so highly regarded coming out of college.

The reason this discussion is happening is a Team Bill attempt to show how quarterbacks are largely dependent on their organization. We all know that there are 53 players on the roster and this is always true to some extent. Of course Wozzy cites Andrew Luck as the best prospect to come out of college…another ridiculous attempt to make a point.

• John Elway was the highest regarded QB prospect ever and played in five Super Bowls, winning two.
• Peyton Manning was arguably the second highest ranked QB prospect ever and played in four Super Bowls, winning two.

While of course you need a strong supporting cast, a generational QB talent makes it a heck of a lot easier to get you to the top. Of course, he’ll cite Luck to make his point. And Luck‘s lack of championship contention was due to his injuries and very short career. As you pointed out, four postseason appearances in four healthy seasons, including an AFCCG appearance in 2014.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

How many Superbowls would Luck have won if he were with the Pats and not Brady...or no ?

Would Luck have been barred from running outside the tackles and ramming his way through defenders?

 

[scott99]

Peyton Manning first year, 57% completion, 26:28 TD/INT 71 rating. If Mac has numbers like that then yikes.

Hopefully the fans know enough to be patient with a rookie.

It was a different league back then. You could mug WR’s, tougher to compete passes in 1999. Though he threw a lot of interceptions that year, that wasn’t a good team he was playing with, I believe they went 3-13 the prior year. That being said, Peyton’s 26 TD passes were a rookie record for a while.

If he could have a similar year, say 25+ TD passes as a rookie, and say only 10+ INTs, I’d be thrilled with his rookie season. I think that unless Cam gets hurt, or REALLY ****s the bed, Mac will spend most of his rookie season learning. I have no problem with that. IF he beats out Cam in training camp, then he deserves to start. May the better man win.

 

[Deus Irae]

The reason this discussion is happening is a Team Bill attempt to show how quarterbacks are largely dependent on their organization. We all know that there are 53 players on the roster and this is always true to some extent. Of course Wozzy cites Andrew Luck as the best prospect to come out of college…another ridiculous attempt to make a point.

In any of the top 5 U.S. pro team sports (football, hockey, basketball, baseball, soccer), it is a literal impossibility for any one player to "win" all on his own. It is also literally impossible for any coach to "win" all on his own. So when someone says "X didn't win it all on his own", he's either working on something that's got to be in context, or he's being dishonest.

But the reality is that individual play, particularly either in certain sports (basketball, where it's a 5 man game and 1 truly elite player can have a huge impact on the game), or at certain positions (Baseball - starting pitcher, Hockey - goaltender, Football - QB), can make or break a team. And that's just the way it is.


As for Wozzie, I put him on ignore. There's only so long that any one clown show is worth watching.

 

[IllegalContact]

 

[Jim Beankie]

It was a bit different back then for passing. Guys tend to jump right him pretty well, but yeah patience is going to be needed, and that really goes for the whole team even the ones that were signed, it does not always work out when you bring in a lot of free agents.

Josh Allen, 10TD/12INT, 52.8% Comp, 67.9 rating and now a lot of people think his poop don't stink.

 

[Wozzy]

Career Sack %

Tom Brady - 4.7% (Protected by an iron wall)
Andrew Luck - 5.0% (Thrown to the wolves)

Luck took 174 career sacks and racked up 332 rushing attempts. It was obvious from year one he played recklessly. The Colts didn’t do a fantastic job with the o-line, but they didn’t fall into some outlier category when it comes to sacks and pressures.

Was this the line’s fault? The play where his shoulder got blown up, lacerated kidney, etc? Trying to cut past defenders like a running back?



This one? On the pass protection?

View attachment 33726

Probably a late hit here….but who is responsible for putting himself in danger?

View attachment 33727

This was a widely accepted understanding about Luck…evidenced by this article in 2016 (and others like it.) The damage was mostly done by that point, as he had sustained major injuries due to his stubbornness. After re-aggravating the injuries a few times, the narrative totally changed to ThE cOlTs DiDnT pToTeCt HiM! and the typical bozos who media driven narratives - like yourself - jumped on board. When Luck retired, the revisionist history took an emotional surge to new levels.

Andrew Luck "reluctantly accepting" need to slide to avoid hits

The Colts have made no secret of their desire to see quarterback Andrew Luck do more to protect himself during games, particularly when he's running out of the pocket on plays like the one that left Luck with a lacerated kidney last season.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

When did Brady lead the league in sacks like Luck did in 2016… when did he ever come close? Never is the answer.

 

[Wozzy]

Well you just showed that you didnt start watching football until recent, because Passing was a lot different in 2001 than it is now as far as numbers go. Brady lead the league in Td's in 2002 with 28, today that would be half a season for some.

When did throwing almost as many INT’s as TD’s become “amazing?” When Tom did it in 2001 according to Brady-stans.

Tom played like a rookie once also, then he improved. This reimagining how he came in and lit up the league is fantasy by a bunch of people who were kids in 2001 and have a hazy memory of it. For reference in 2001 Brett Farve threw 32 TD’s and 15 INT’s, Rich Gannon the other AFC playoff team threw 27 and 9… there were other good QB’s. The Patriots won because they played better as a team.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

When did Brady lead the league in sacks like Luck did in 2016… when did he ever come close? Never is the answer.

What a sad little way to acknowledge you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Wozzy]

What a sad little way to acknowledge you don't know what you're talking about.

What a pathetic way to deflect facts.

 

[Wozzy]

How many Superbowls would Luck have won if he were with the Pats and not Brady...or no ?

They’ll tell you they understand how QB’s can’t win without great teams around them and out the other side of their mouth say Luck couldn’t have been a check down system QB like Tom in 2001… or better.

 

[Zuma]

Rob Ninkovich doesn't think Cam Newton will enjoy a bounce-back season

Rob Ninkovich is not as optimistic about Cam Newton heading into 2021.

patriotswire.usatoday.com

“No I do not (expect a bounce-back season),” Ninkovich said on ESPN’s “Get Up.” “This doesn’t come from hate. I’m looking at this perspective of there’s two types of offenses the Patriots will have to run. One completely different offense with Cam Newton, and the other with Mac Jones.

“The team is built right now to have a typical pro-style, quarterback-under-center, run the football, 22 personnel, 23 personnel. They’re going to be better-suited with Mac Jones under center.

“And Cam’s still going to have a big role in this offense. You’re going to see him in the red zone. He’s still going to have a big impact on this team. But he’s not going to be the big breakout guy. It’s going to be Mac Jones.”

 

[Uptown]

Andrew Luck was a very good QB. Very good.
His organization/management was his downfall. No OL/RB until later in his career. Can’t knock him for always losing to NE; we’re NE for Christ sakes haha. Of course he wasn’t without his faults, but anybody arguing otherwise does. not. know. football. You don’t know what you’re watching. No argument.

 

[Wozzy]

He reminds me of those guys that go look up stats from old hall of famers and say they were not that good. lol. Fantasy football guy.

I was talking sports on boston.com forums in the late 90’s when the internet was just becoming a thing. You weren’t there.

 

[Wozzy]

Some guys can take the NFL, some cannot. A couple years before he retired he had the best line in football and he still left. It does not mean as much to some guys as it does others and some guys can take the hits for a long time and some cannot.

In 2016 Luck was one sack shy of leading the entire NFL, he missed the next season with his injury and limped through one season before retiring… his O-Line started to get good in his last season. You must be a fantasy football guy.

 

[Pats1971]

In 2016 Luck was one sack shy of leading the entire NFL, he missed the next season with his injury and limped through one season before retiring… his O-Line started to get good in his last season. You must be a fantasy football guy.

Yeah sounds like he could not hang. Some guys are like that. Sorry your guy couldnt. Not everyone can play 20 years and play through injury.

 

[Pats1971]

I was talking sports on boston.com forums in the late 90’s when the internet was just becoming a thing. You weren’t there.

How would you know where I was. lol. You think in all that time you would have learned how passing was in the 90's and early 2000's.

 

[Pats1971]

When did throwing almost as many INT’s as TD’s become “amazing?” When Tom did it in 2001 according to Brady-stans.

Tom played like a rookie once also, then he improved. This reimagining how he came in and lit up the league is fantasy by a bunch of people who were kids in 2001 and have a hazy memory of it. For reference in 2001 Brett Farve threw 32 TD’s and 15 INT’s, Rich Gannon the other AFC playoff team threw 27 and 9… there were other good QB’s. The Patriots won because they played better as a team.

So you compared long time starters to Brady in his first starting season with less weapons and playing in 14 games to Favre and Gannon? Ok let me break it down...Favre had 32 td's who else did? How many did last year? Ok, now you understand a bit better. Better yet though, lets take a look at favre and gannon first starting seasons...
Favre 18 td's 13 ints in 15 games
Gannon 16 td's 16 ints in 15 games

Well golly gee it seems like football was different in the passing game than in the last 10 years. Look I am sorry your boy luck could not cut it in the NFL, its a hard business, most guys do not last long, some do, and for some reason a lot of your posts bash one of those guys.

Ok you learned something today, say thank you and move on to the next bad take.