We Need New Scouts

[sportnik]

This is ridiculous. The Pats hit on a higher percentage of draft picks than virtually any other team in the league. Go back and look through draft history On Proffootball reference and see for yourself.

Bear in mind that they are never picking in the top 20 and virtually every other team has multiple top 20 picks on their roster.

Also bear in mind that many of BB’s top draft picks did nothing in thier Rookie year (James White, Trey Flowers, Tom Brady). This is a testament to the quality of the Pats roster and their ability to develop their own talent.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It has been a gradual process. I quit the Boy Scouts about forty years ago because all of my troop mates were getting stoned.

That is better than getting molested, which was the scandal that completely broke them.

 

[Vindicate]

Sometimes I wonder if the criticism we dish out is because we have a hyper focus on every player the Patriots draft, so we notice all the busts. Where typically, of other teams, you really only hear about their hits.

When you focus on the WR drafting, it's somewhat more clear that we miss way more often than hit. How much of that is the staff and how much of it is Brady? However much you fully buy into the narrative that gaining his trust isn't easy; that he's hard on rookies; - it gets to a point where it's at least worth acknowledging that, especially as he's gotten older, he doesn't have as much patience and it's just simply hard to find someone who gels with him.

I'm not saying to dismiss the scout team making mistakes - they do - but I think it helps to observe all factors. It might just be stupidly difficult to find someone who gels with Brady their rookie season.

I feel like... Mitchell towards the end of his first season? And Hernandez (lol)? Gronk had a good first season, too. But, two of those three were like. Amazing players. And Mitchell was pretty damn good before his injury halted his career.

How did those people hit, but no one else?

 

[tasmlab]

Sometimes I wonder if the criticism we dish out is because we have a hyper focus on every player the Patriots draft, so we notice all the busts. Where typically, of other teams, you really only hear about their hits.

When you focus on the WR drafting, it's somewhat more clear that we miss way more often than hit. How much of that is the staff and how much of it is Brady? However much you fully buy into the narrative that gaining his trust isn't easy; that he's hard on rookies; - it gets to a point where it's at least worth acknowledging that, especially as he's gotten older, he doesn't have as much patience and it's just simply hard to find someone who gels with him.

I'm not saying to dismiss the scout team making mistakes - they do - but I think it helps to observe all factors. It might just be stupidly difficult to find someone who gels with Brady their rookie season.

I feel like... Mitchell towards the end of his first season? And Hernandez (lol)? Gronk had a good first season, too. But, two of those three were like. Amazing players. And Mitchell was pretty damn good before his injury halted his career.

How did those people hit, but no one else?

Imagine if the WRs all had to go through what Edelman had to. Like FIVE years of not being a 1, 2, 3, or 4 WR while following Brady around hoping to work out for him, all while earning his keep on special teams and even little defense. What other WR gets five years to figure it out??

(He's the reigning super bowl MVP to boot)

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Keep the scouts however who keep finding elite undrafted players like Malcolm Butler, JC jackson, etc

 

[scout]

It has been a gradual process. I quit the Boy Scouts about forty years ago because all of my troop mates were getting stoned.

If I had known troops were getting stoned I probably wouldn't have gone awol from boy scout camp.

 

[Triumph]

The only way these young receivers have a chance is if the Pats change their philosophy on what they want their WR’a to do.

Get open and catch the ball.

How many ways can you run a route and catch a pass. These guys have been playing football since Pop Warner pee wee days. Basically their whole lives. Yes, some of these WRs could not spell C-A-T but the majority do not seem to have any problem learning other NFL playbooks. If the Pats are bringing in draftees who struggle to understand the NEP offense then that is piss poor scouting and the failure is placed solely on them.

 

[Triumph]

Its maddening to watch these other teams find good WRs no problem.

Steelers 2019 stats
# 66 [2019 draft] Dionte Johnson 680 yds - 5 TDs
# 60 [2018 draft] James Washington 735 yds - 3 TDs
# 62 [2017 draft] JuJu Smith 552 yds - 3 TDs

2019 draft Obscure WRs
# 171 Darius Slayton 740 yds - 8 TDs
# 149 Hunter Renfrow 605 yds - 4 TDs

 

[TheAdultintheRoom]

Work on his explosiveness? Lol, because slow 22 year olds suddenly get explosive later in life. He can work on getting taller too. The only thing that matters is that he's smart, plays special teams, and was the captain of marching band in high school.

 

[Vindicate]

Imagine if the WRs all had to go through what Edelman had to. Like FIVE years of not being a 1, 2, 3, or 4 WR while following Brady around hoping to work out for him, all while earning his keep on special teams and even little defense. What other WR gets five years to figure it out??

(He's the reigning super bowl MVP to boot)

Exactly. They had patience with Edleman. Brady just doesn't have 5 years anymore. Which is understandable. I don't hold it against him at all.

 

[scout]

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

This thread isn’t good for you @scout

 

[Deus Irae]

Exactly. They had patience with Edleman. Brady just doesn't have 5 years anymore. Which is understandable. I don't hold it against him at all.

In the NFL, it's rare to find situations where you can spend years bringing along a low round conversion prospect.

 

[scout]

This thread isn’t good for you @scout

Actually, my post was in response to blizzard. I also thought this last year was down. Although, I'm thankful since 2001, which was a long, long, long time ago. I don't understand the negative criticism. I look forward to next year.

 

[VJCPatriot]

The idea this team is, like, totally broken is completely farcical.

You're fighting a straw man. The title of this thread suggests that our scouts are inept at drafting WRs so we should consider hiring new scouts. Considering our track record on Wide Receivers over the past 20 years, 3 good WRs in 20 years -- Troy Brown (8th round 1993), Deion Branch (2nd round 2002), Julian Edelman (7th round 2009), the statement has some merit.

On the other hand OP did not state that "the team is completely broken," that was your own made up statement.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I am wondering who has accurately predicted our drafts in the past?

One of our members raved about Jarrod Mayo the year he was drafted.

I've had a pretty good hit rate with identifying Patriot-Type Prospects"
Wynn, Garcia, Rivers, Stidham, Harry, Froholdt, Sony, Dawson, Sam, Berrios, Crossen, Wise, McDermott over the past few drafts. Now how the turned out . That's not on me lol.

I just put out my list of what a big board would look like for us in the draft forum. 108 prospects I believe. Usually we have a board of 60-150 guys so give or take as always.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Also regarding the our scouts. It should be noted that Bill, Nick and the big shots usually get the most and final say in rounds 1-3. Scouts usually have the most impact on Day 3 and on.

 

[primetime]

You're fighting a straw man. The title of this thread suggests that our scouts are inept at drafting WRs so we should consider hiring new scouts. Considering our track record on Wide Receivers over the past 20 years, 3 good WRs in 20 years -- Troy Brown (8th round 1993), Deion Branch (2nd round 2002), Julian Edelman (7th round 2009), the statement has some merit.

On the other hand OP did not state that "the team is completely broken," that was your own made up statement.

Troy Brown, huh? 20 years sure is a lot longer than it used to be.

In the Belichick era they really haven't drafted that many receivers in the rounds where you aren't just throwing random darts. The draft is 4 rounds deep. Branch, Bethel, Jackson, Tate, Price, Dobson, Boyce, Mitchell, Harry. Branch was a hit, Mitchell probably deserves an asterisk, Harry's an incomplete. 2/8 (excluding Harry) in the first 4 rounds in nearly two decades probably isn't a bad hit rate judged against other teams. And when you add in tight end, where they did draft a number of starters (and a Hall of Famer and a guy who would have been one), well, it looks a lot better.

Plus Edelman's been a top-10 receiver in the NFL for the better part of a decade as a 7t. rounder...

Between Davey, O'Connell, Mallett, Garoppolo, Brissett, and Stidham, consider the Patriots have drafted almost as many quarterbacks in the first 4 rounds as receivers in the Belichick era...

 

[primetime]

Its maddening to watch these other teams find good WRs no problem.

Steelers 2019 stats
# 66 [2019 draft] Dionte Johnson 680 yds - 5 TDs
# 60 [2018 draft] James Washington 735 yds - 3 TDs
# 62 [2017 draft] JuJu Smith 552 yds - 3 TDs

2019 draft Obscure WRs
# 171 Darius Slayton 740 yds - 8 TDs
# 149 Hunter Renfrow 605 yds - 4 TDs

The Steelers find receivers because they spend a lot of draft capital on receivers. Remember Sammie Coates? Dri Archer? Limas Sweed? Markus Wheaton? Willie Reid, Fred Gibson... The Steelers have had more busts at receiver in the first 4 than the Patriots have over the last decade. They also have more hits because they use more picks there. (And, yeah, hitting on an Antonio Brown in round 6, like Edelman, makes up for a lot of crappy picks.)

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Troy Brown, huh? 20 years sure is a lot longer than it used to be.

In the Belichick era they really haven't drafted that many receivers in the rounds where you aren't just throwing random darts. The draft is 4 rounds deep. Branch, Bethel, Jackson, Tate, Price, Dobson, Boyce, Mitchell, Harry. Branch was a hit, Mitchell probably deserves an asterisk, Harry's an incomplete. 2/8 (excluding Harry) in the first 4 rounds in nearly two decades probably isn't a bad hit rate judged against other teams. And when you add in tight end, where they did draft a number of starters (and a Hall of Famer and a guy who would have been one), well, it looks a lot better.

Plus Edelman's been a top-10 receiver in the NFL for the better part of a decade as a 7t. rounder...

Between Davey, O'Connell, Mallett, Garoppolo, Brissett, and Stidham, consider the Patriots have drafted almost as many quarterbacks in the first 4 rounds as receivers in the Belichick era...

Always believed the draft is 4 rounds and taking a shot after that.