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Should the Pats have drafted DK Metcalf instead of N'Keal Harry?


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Cleveland's OL is garbage, and it is not "far better than ours". They'd just benched their starting LT, for crying out loud.
Our starting LT would be in the xfl if we didn’t have him. Our starting RG was James ferentz. Our C is below average. Thuney is good cannon has been mediocre this year.
Cleveland’s OL being far better than ours, esp in the running game, says more about ours than theirs and all you have to do is watch ours try to run block to see that
 
I think it's too early to tell, Harry hasnt played a snap yet and Metcalf has been pretty solid.
 
Our starting LT would be in the xfl if we didn’t have him. Our starting RG was James ferentz. Our C is below average. Thuney is good cannon has been mediocre this year.
Cleveland’s OL being far better than ours, esp in the running game, says more about ours than theirs and all you have to do is watch ours try to run block to see that

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Bert was kidnapped?

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The dude's argument essentially boils down to claiming that Cleveland's OL is "far better" than NE's because, in one game, Mason wasn't playing. Ernie's not buying that crap.
 
You may be the only person America that thinks Newhouse Thuney karras ferentz cannon is a good OL. I’d bet money you are the only one who thinks the patriots ol has been good at run blocking this year, if you actually think that.
 
The dude's argument essentially boils down to claiming that Cleveland's OL is "far better" than NE's because, in one game, Mason wasn't playing. Ernie's not buying that crap.
That’s the one they played against each other.
 
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You may be the only person America that thinks Newhouse Thuney karras ferentz cannon is a good OL. I’d bet money you are the only one who thinks the patriots ol has been good at run blocking this year, if you actually think that.

I didn't claim that line is a good one. I claimed, correctly, the the Browns OL is garbage. You don't seem to do logic, or debate, well.
 
The dude's argument essentially boils down to claiming that Cleveland's OL is "far better" than NE's because, in one game, Mason wasn't playing. Ernie's not buying that crap.

Do you mean there exists a comparable OL than to that of Westinghouse, Thuney, Mongo's Nephew, Jordan Richards and Cannon ??????
 
The strongest argument for Michel was that he was a better receiver out of the backfield, which has not panned out so far. But, even if it does, that should not have been the reason to take Michel over Chubb, since the Patriots have White to function as the 3dRB.

It's possible that the knee injuries are the reason that Michel has not been as good as Chubb. But, looking at film, it's also possible that people were missing on their evaluations of Michel. He hasn't shown the "next gear" that many thought he would. He hasn't shown particularly good running vision. He hasn't shown an ability to shake tacklers. He seems to usually get what's easily there, and little to no more than that. That's fine if we're talking about a BJGE, or a later round pick. That's not fine when we're talking about a first round RB pick.

I hope that the OL gets healthy, and that springs Michel towards an excellent second half. I hope that Michel develops into what everyone initially hoped he could be, and I hope he can play for years after getting to such a point. Unfortunately, I think his limitations go beyond the line problems, and I think they were obvious even when things were going well at the end of last year.

And, yes, I'd love to be wrong on this.

Following this up:

According to WEEI, Michel is the second worst qualifying RB, when it comes to yards after contact.
 
Do you mean there exists a comparable OL than to that of Westinghouse, Thuney, Mongo's Nephew, Jordan Richards and Cannon ??????

Probably. I'm not going to scour the league for each OL set this season, though, and I was obviously never talking about just this past game.
 
It's not reasonable to question whether we could have/should have drafted player A instead of player B?

Damn right it's not a reasonable question to ask when player B has yet to take the field for a single snap of football that counts.
 
And here come the excuses. Maroney already failed to develop in year 2. Don't act like his career suddenly nosedived because of injury. That wasn't until his 5th year that he had a major injury with a different team, ie Denver and his career ended.

People were noticing since year 1 that his style was not north-south and featured too much 'dancing' without the elusiveness of an actual elusive back. It just led to unnecessary losses. This mentality failed to improve in year 2. Maroney was a bad pick. Peroid.

I'll never understand how someone can speak so confidently on something while clearly not having a ****ing clue what they were talking about. He suffered a season-ending injury in 2008 that you apparently forgot about enough to confidently insist that it never happened. The dude broke his shoulder and missed most of the season, dunno how anyone who followed the Pats at all closely at the time would forget that tbh.

It's okay to not remember stuff, just don't pretend that you do while disparaging others with your false, unwarranted confidence.
 
I'm still amazed at people who can't admit that BB makes mistakes.


He seems to have chosen the wrong Bulldog. There's no need to pretend this is some inscrutable plan that nobody but BB can create or follow. He thought Michel was more than he is.

It's also possible he thought Chubb was less than he is, or more likely a combination of both. But yeah, Chubb is clearly the better player and in hindsight Belichick chose the wrong guy. Seemed like the wrong choice at the time IMO too, but I'm wrong on this stuff all the time so I'm not going to take a victory lap over being right this time.

Sucks, but Chubb is one of the best RBs in the league already so the silver lining is that even while being clearly worse than him Michel can still be a good player.
 
I didn't claim that line is a good one. I claimed, correctly, the the Browns OL is garbage. You don't seem to do logic, or debate, well.
My logic is just fine. I don’t “debate”. I could not care less whether an anonymous person on the internet agrees with me.
You can feel you are correct if you want to. I would assume anyone giving any opinion feels they are correct.
 
Probably. I'm not going to scour the league for each OL set this season, though, and I was obviously never talking about just this past game.

I can't imagine another line as bad as this past Sunday's Patriots line, but fair enough.
 
Damn right it's not a reasonable question to ask when player B has yet to take the field for a single snap of football that counts.

Yeah, I don't know how one is supposed to predict whether a drafted player will pull a hamstring the following August.

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It's completely ridiculous and disingenuous to compare Michel/Chubb to Dunlap/Cunningham. By all accounts based on pre-NFL experience Dunlap was the better player.

Meanwhile Chubb and Michel were very close and basically every mock draft had Michel going ahead of Chubb.

Here is Chubb and Michel's college production. Which one would you have taken for the Patriots system:

Player A:
47 games played - 590 attempts - 3613 yards (6.1 y/a) - 33 TDs - 64 receptions - 621 yards - 6 TDs
Of which in final season: 14 games played - 156 attempts - 1227 yards (7.9 y/a) - 16 TDs - 9 receptions - 96 yards

Player B:
47 games played - 758 attempts - 4769 yards (6.3 y/a) - 44 TDs - 31 receptions - 361 yards - 4 TDs
Of which in final season: 15 games played - 223 attempts - 1345 yards (6.0 y/a) - 15 TDs - 4 receptions - 30 yards

You're moving the goalposts halfway through your own comparison. For Dunlap vs. Cunningham, you're citing scouts who believed that Dunlap projected better to the NFL, while for Michel vs. Chubb you're citing college production. If you look at Cunningham and Dunlap's college stats, you'll see that Dunlap had 19.5 career sacks and 0 INTs, while Cunningham had 18.5 sacks and 1 INT. Dunlap had 26 TFL, while Cunningham had 33. Dunlap had 1 forced fumble, Cunningham had 5. Clearly that's at least partly because Cunningham had a larger body of work, but that body of work is part of the evaluation in its own right, and even if you insisted on averaging it all out you'd still arrive at a purely statistical conclusion that Dunlap was better at sacking the QB while Cunningham's production indicated a more well-rounded skillset. The scouting report wouldn't and didn't say that, but if you're looking purely at the stats with zero context as you're trying to do with Chubb and Michel, that's what they say.

If you were doing the "player A vs. player B" kind of stats comparison that you're attempting with Chubb and Michel, you'd reach a similar conclusion: that stats alone don't clearly show either to be better than the other.

So basically, you've gotta pick a standard and stick with it if you want to make an honest comparison. Michel/Chubb and Cunningham/Dunlap *is* similar for exactly this reason. The stats showed them to be roughly even, while the eye test showed one to project better than the other. In both cases, Belichick took the wrong guy IMO for what I suspect are similar reasons: because he placed a higher premium on perceived versatility that didn't necessarily translate all the way at the pro level in the way he thought it would. I'm not hating on the philosophy, as it's yielded us a lot of good players in its own right, but in these two cases the results pretty much speak for themselves.

The big difference between Cunningham/Dunlap and Michel/Chubb, however, is that I think Michel is actually a good player, so even in picking the 'wrong' guy he still got a running back that I believe in. Unlike with Cunningham, who was just flat-out bad. I'm still high on Michel overall, and I think he's mostly been the victim of losing our fullback, center, the best blocking TE in the league, and our LT. He's the victim of a ****ty situation right now, and I do believe he'll turn it around once the rest of the offense stabilizes around him. I'm not burying the guy, but you don't have to bury him to acknowledge that Chubb--who I think at this very moment is an elite NFL RB--is clearly superior.
 
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The last great WR we drafted Julian Edelman in the 7th round of 2009.

Wait. Wait. Wait

So your premise of this thread is that basically Pats should have taken Metcalf instead of Harry because Harry hasn't played in 8 games in which the Patriots won by an average of 23 points. But Edelman was a great draft choice even though he averaged 17 rec and 170 yards a season his 1st 4 years with the team? To put that into perspective Jakobi Meyers has 14 rec and 172 yards this season.

Going by your logic and adjusting it because Edelman was a converted QB. Harry should get at least the rest of this year and next to prove himself.
 
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