Antonio Brown

[Biffins]

Ha so now limited on Wednesday means out on Sunday. Ok.

Gordon has finger, knee, and foot injuries. They'll probably sit him but I could be wrong.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

You’re viewing this situation like an episode of Dr. Phil. Just look at that first statement that you made. I think you’re doing a little reaching, here.

If Bob Kraft overreacted (or even feels “guilty” over paying a little more for extras during a massage), it’s quite possible that he viewed the severity of Brown’s antics and accusations to be on a totally different plane than what you’re suggesting.

It’s almost certain that he, and probably most people, view Brown’s multiple instances, along with potentially threatening, or at the very least creepy texts, and severity of the accusation of rape, to be much more serious than getting a BJ.

With all due respect @supafly , after seeing the embarrassing behavior from Bob during Deflategate, how he folded like a cheap tent and humped the commissioner’s leg while happily leaving Brady to get railroaded (don’t forget his “there will be peace in our time” update with “the 32”), and how his own legal team went for the jugular on the defense (threatening professional misconduct charges), many people also believe Bob is a full-of-**** hypocrite/fool who should leave these decisions to the two men 99% responsible for his legendary success as an owner.

Clark Hunt is not considered a “bad guy” and suspended Tyreek Hill before the league investigation started and concluded. That way, you are still showing concern and cooperating without making an insanely rash decision. What if Brown’s civil trial turns out to show laughable inconsistencies in the woman’s story? The Patriots may be losing a Super Bowl over a public Instagram text with an ambiguous at worst “threat” and more likely a distasteful comment about the kids not looking poor? Yes, the league told him not to contact her. He did anyway. That’s why the league has disciplinary remedies.

Releasing him within five minutes was rash and idiotic. There were other options. This is a personality problem with him, that he can’t handle the heat, just like how he went to the owner’s meeting in Arizona talking big and then urinated on his leg within 20 seconds of seeing the other owners. He then admitted later that he “was wrong” to do it. There sure seems to be reason to doubt a huge decision like this one.

 

[supafly]

With all due respect @supafly , after seeing the embarrassing behavior from Bob during Deflategate, how he folded like a cheap tent and humped the commissioner’s leg while happily leaving Brady to get railroaded (don’t forget his “there will be peace in our time” update with “the 32”), and how his own legal team went for the jugular on the defense (threatening professional misconduct charges), many people also believe Bob is a full-of-**** hypocrite/fool who should leave these decisions to the two men 99% responsible for his legendary success as an owner.

Clark Hunt is not considered a “bad guy” and suspended Tyreek Hill before the league investigation started and concluded. That way, you are still showing concern and cooperating without making an insanely rash decision. What if Brown’s civil trial turns out to show laughable inconsistencies in the woman’s story? The Patriots may be losing a Super Bowl over a public Instagram text with an ambiguous at worst “threat” and more likely a distasteful comment about the kids not looking poor? Yes, the league told him not to contact her. He did anyway. That’s why the league has disciplinary remedies.

Releasing him within five minutes was rash and idiotic. There were other options. This is a personality problem with him, that he can’t handle the heat, just like how he went to the owner’s meeting in Arizona talking big and then urinated on his leg within 20 seconds of seeing the other owners. He then admitted later that he “was wrong” to do it. There sure seems to be reason to doubt a huge decision like this one.

I understand that people are going to upset at how the ownership handled deflategate, but I disagree with the idea that “Kraft felt guilty about his own mess and overreacted, kicking AB out unduly.”

We have absolutely nothing to base that off of, and let’s remember that everyone in the organization was more than patient with AB and the two weeks of non-stop chaos. I have no idea as to how much input Kraft had on the decision, but if at some point he decided that enough was enough, I totally support his decision as a member of the fanbase.

I think we’re all disappointed that Brown didn’t work out here, but it’s not like they jumped to conclusions and cut him during the initial accusations. Hell, they didn’t even cut him after the second accusation. In this case, Brown made his own bed.

 

[Biffins]

With all due respect @supafly , after seeing the embarrassing behavior from Bob during Deflategate, how he folded like a cheap tent and humped the commissioner’s leg while happily leaving Brady to get railroaded (don’t forget his “there will be peace in our time” update with “the 32”), and how his own legal team went for the jugular on the defense (threatening professional misconduct charges), many people also believe Bob is a full-of-**** hypocrite/fool who should leave these decisions to the two men 99% responsible for his legendary success as an owner.

Clark Hunt is not considered a “bad guy” and suspended Tyreek Hill before the league investigation started and concluded. That way, you are still showing concern and cooperating without making an insanely rash decision. What if Brown’s civil trial turns out to show laughable inconsistencies in the woman’s story? The Patriots may be losing a Super Bowl over a public Instagram text with an ambiguous at worst “threat” and more likely a distasteful comment about the kids not looking poor? Yes, the league told him not to contact her. He did anyway. That’s why the league has disciplinary remedies.

Releasing him within five minutes was rash and idiotic. There were other options. This is a personality problem with him, that he can’t handle the heat, just like how he went to the owner’s meeting in Arizona talking big and then urinated on his leg within 20 seconds of seeing the other owners. He then admitted later that he “was wrong” to do it. There sure seems to be reason to doubt a huge decision like this one.

You're spot on. Why the hell didn't we just suspend AB while the league worked out its decision, even if we wanted to take action. Why did we have to cut him? It was stupid.

 

[Biffins]

I understand that people are going to upset at how the ownership handled deflategate, but I disagree with the idea that “Kraft felt guilty about his own mess and overreacted, kicking AB out unduly.”

We have absolutely nothing to base that off of, and let’s remember that everyone in the organization was more than patient with AB and the two weeks of non-stop chaos. I have no idea as to how much input Kraft had on the decision, but if at some point he decided that enough was enough, I totally support his decision as a member of the fanbase.

I think we’re all disappointed that Brown didn’t work out here, but it’s not like they jumped to conclusions and cut him during the initial accusations. Hell, they didn’t even cut him after the second accusation. In this case, Brown made his own bed.

They did jump to conclusions. CLEARLY. Since no actual criminal investigation or charges have been placed. And the NFL has not officially taken any action like suspend him or place him on Exempt List. This is the VERY DEFINITION of jumping to conclusions. The Patriots concluded that either the NFL was on the verge of placing him on Exempt List or there will be criminal repercussions following the accusations. If you're not concluding that, why cut him in the first place.

What you say doesn't logically follow.

 

[supafly]

They did jump to conclusions. CLEARLY. Since no actual criminal investigation or charges have been placed. And the NFL has not officially taken any action like suspend him or place him on Exempt List. This is the VERY DEFINITION of jumping to conclusions. The Patriots concluded that either the NFL was on the verge of placing him on Exempt List or there will be criminal repercussions following the accusations. If you're not concluding that, why cut him in the first place.

What you say doesn't logically follow.

They were patient with all of his baggage and drama, up until the point where they could no longer deal with him or the distinct possibility of him being placed on the exempt list. How are you going to try and build a gameplan around getting him involved and having him as your main weapon when they don’t even know if he was going to be allowed to continue to play? It was a waste of time and effort for Belichick, McDaniels, and Brady.

He was nothing but a problem and a distraction from day one. It didn’t work for the team, and it obviously didn’t work for Brown, who contrary to all of your posts, hasn’t had a sniff from any teams since being cut. Most likely because all of the other teams are going to stay away for the exact same reasons why NE is staying away.

 

[sambam94]

I understand that people are going to upset at how the ownership handled deflategate, but I disagree with the idea that “Kraft felt guilty about his own mess and overreacted, kicking AB out unduly.”

We have absolutely nothing to base that off of, and let’s remember that everyone in the organization was more than patient with AB and the two weeks of non-stop chaos. I have no idea as to how much input Kraft had on the decision, but if at some point he decided that enough was enough, I totally support his decision as a member of the fanbase.

I think we’re all disappointed that Brown didn’t work out here, but it’s not like they jumped to conclusions and cut him during the initial accusations. Hell, they didn’t even cut him after the second accusation. In this case, Brown made his own bed.

there was no formal 2nd accusation...it was a SI story. I don't like the idea that people can be penalized, lose their jobs over accusations, especially allegations without going through the system.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

And the NFL has not officially taken any action like suspend him or place him on Exempt List. This is the VERY DEFINITION of jumping to conclusions. The Patriots concluded that either the NFL was on the verge of placing him on Exempt List or there will be criminal repercussions following the accusations.

With Brown not under contract to a team the NFL has as much jurisdiction over him as they have over you. So they can’t suspend him. Likewise, they are not allowed to put him on the EL when he’s not under contract. But they did send out a memo to the teams that any sane person would understand as a clear threat to EL him if any team signed him.

Brown not being under contract also removes any actual and practical deadlines for the NFL’s investigation and they are going to take full advantage of that. They are going to slow walk this until the season is over because the NFL doesn’t want him playing for anyone this season. Finally, we have no idea what legwork the NFL is doing behind the scenes.

 

[supafly]

With Brown not under contract to a team the NFL has as much jurisdiction over him as they have over you. So they can’t suspend him. Likewise, they are not allowed to put him on the EL when he’s not under contract. But they did send out a memo to the teams that any sane person would understand as a clear threat to EL him if any team signed him.

Brown not being under contract also removes any actual and practical deadlines for the NFL’s investigation and they are going to take full advantage of that. They are going to slow walk this until the season is over because the NFL doesn’t want him playing for anyone this season. Finally, we have no idea what legwork the NFL is doing behind the scenes.

I have a hunch that there was some pressure from the league. No doubt.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I have a hunch that there was some pressure from the league. No doubt.

It was probably “FYI - we are going to put him on the EL Monday. Your move.”

 

[supafly]

there was no formal 2nd accusation...it was a SI story. I don't like the idea that people can be penalized, lose their jobs over accusations, especially allegations without going through the system.

I agree with you about disliking the system that the NFL has in place, but it feels like he was darn close to being placed on the exempt list due to multiple accusations and then the stupidity to reach out to the woman under the spotlight of what her attorney called a threatening manner. The decision to put pics of her kids in the texts made the situation even creepier, and there was just way too much attention on his questionable character to continue to try and deal with that kind of chaos.

Also, what QM brings up about the possibility of some behind the scenes pressure by the NFL makes a ton of sense and had been something that I had considered. There’s a reason why no interviews are occurring and that’s because the investigation will be milked as long as possible in the attempt to act as a de facto suspension. Whatever happens to Brown, I think it’s unlikely that it’s resolved in the 2019 season unless they suspend him indefinitely. He’s almost certainly not playing for anyone this season.

 

[Uptown]

Sincere question: Is this the longest thread in PF history?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Sincere question: Is this the longest thread in PF history?

I think the Malcolm Butler thread was longer.

 

[maust]

I think the Malcolm Butler thread was longer.

349 pages on that abomination, this fresh hell has easily eclipsed it. Even Dante couldn't envision a level this low

 

[RobertWeathers]

349 pages on that abomination, this fresh hell has easily eclipsed it. Even Dante couldn't envision a level this low

I thought that was in the 700s....

My god.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I thought that was in the 700s....

My god.

It probably would have been except that the mods locked it.

 

[maust]

It probably would have been except that the mods locked it.

Thankfully

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

They were patient with all of his baggage and drama, up until the point where they could no longer deal with him or the distinct possibility of him being placed on the exempt list. How are you going to try and build a gameplan around getting him involved and having him as your main weapon when they don’t even know if he was going to be allowed to continue to play? It was a waste of time and effort for Belichick, McDaniels, and Brady.

He was nothing but a problem and a distraction from day one. It didn’t work for the team, and it obviously didn’t work for Brown, who contrary to all of your posts, hasn’t had a sniff from any teams since being cut. Most likely because all of the other teams are going to stay away for the exact same reasons why NE is staying away.

I can understand and appreciate your viewpoint up until the part about game planning. If he were put on the exempt list, the investigation would likely consist of a few interviews and max suspension is probably 6 games. That’s well within the range where he could return and get up to speed.

It seems that you aren’t buying the reports that this was Kraft’s idea and that others (Belichick, Brady) were not on board with it, with varying degrees of how “not on board with it” they actually were/are. I’m sure they will move past it, but I don’t see how the risk:reward scales are tipped by the variable of his possible suspension time. They just got through nine seasons of building an offense around Gronkowski, who was often injured and required adjustments. It’s hard to imagine Brown’s roster presence as a bad thing competitively. Maybe it turns into a worthless spot (but is is an exemption from the 53) in the worst case scenario.

As for Belichick, he has coached 40 years and been around plenty of troubled players and talented ones. I’m thinking of guys like Lawrence Taylor and so many untold stories behind the scenes that come out later. I trust his judgment that Brown’s “distractions” are worth his talent. I don’t think he cares about repeating “no update” to the idiotic media week after week. This uproar would have largely died down in time, and it seems Brady and Belichick realize this and how to keep the locker room in unison. This was really about the distractions that Kraft perceives to the image of the Patriots, or the standards of men who chooses to employ. In either case, that’s his right as an owner, but it doesn’t mean he didn’t just put the team at a competitive disadvantaged, or that he doesn’t have a foolishly naive way of looking at things. I’ll bet VERY few owners would be duped like that, releasing a player they just signed to a big contract, in the absence of criminal charges. And if it is over personal ethics, we have every right to laugh at him, considering the tarnished image of the team he’s already left the fan base to deal with, or at least contributed to in order to avoid criticism standing up for what’s right in 2015. When a man is not respected, you can’t respect his decisions about other men.

 

[203Pat]

Edelman was a decoy last week

Gordon's foot got injured after the 4th game. His fingers were likely hampering him as well during the Bills game. He'll likely not play versus Redskins.

But you're right. I could be trolling here for a decade.

Man I didn't know we had one of the team's medical staff posting here.

 

[State]

Weird to read that Vontaze Burflict restrained AB from going after Raiders GM Mike Mayock. Didn’t Burflict try to kill AB multiple times when he was a LBer for the Bengals?

When stuff like that happens—violent Vontaze acting as a blessed peacemaker—can the Messiah’s appearance (or reappearance if you’re Christian) be far away?