Rewatch Thread: Philly @ NE (Preseason #2)

[long distance]

If Davis were that sought after just based on measurables, another team would have grabbed him late in the draft

On the other hand, if Adam Butler is released, he would almost certainly get picked up.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

An undersized (by a lot) DT with average agility for his position is not a complement.

Again, testing numbers aren't the be all end all, but he's extremely similar to Jarvis Green coming out of LSU. Green bulked up 10 - 15 pounds and played a vital role as a sub DL and as part of a 3rd down package. Good player here. Davis might be on the same trajectory.

(take the 2018 number) As a DE:




And as a DT:

 

[AlexB]

Difference is that Butler has a year's worth on tape in the NFL now. I am not saying he is going to get claimed because of his pre-draft measurables. I also said if Davis has a stellar performance his next two games, he could get claimed.

 

[Patjew]

I agree the 2003 team was the best patriot team ever.
And I base that on what actually happened on the field, not hypothetical comparisons.

I thought the 2003 team was amazing but the 2004 team was even better. Dillon makes the difference IMO.

But my god that 2003 D...

 

[AlexB]

Isn't it possible that NE and Davis had already reached a mutual arrangement, and Davis was just waiting for the formal offer, knowing he could follow up with other teams if NE reneged on the deal? This may sound risky, but how big a risk was it really when both sides knew his health wasnt going to change much by August?

Yes, entirely possible. For all either of us know, he could have received offers from all 32 teams right after the draft and may have turned down offers with guaranteed money to play with NE. I just don't think it's a likely scenario. In general, high demand players get signed quickly and receive more guaranteed money. He doesn't know for sure there would be a spot for him later if a team already had 90 spots. Also, if no team is willing to use a spot on the 90 man roster until August, that also leads me to believe he had very little demand.

In order for a team to want to claim him and place him on their active roster without having spent training camp with them, he has to show something he hadn't already shown by draft time last year. That's why athleticism and measurables aren't enough, he needs to really shine the next two preseason game.

 

[Ring 6]

Again, testing numbers aren't the be all end all, but he's extremely similar to Jarvis Green coming out of LSU. Green bulked up 10 - 15 pounds and played a vital role as a sub DL and as part of a 3rd down package. Good player here. Davis might be on the same trajectory.

(take the 2018 number) As a DE:

View attachment 21032


And as a DT:


View attachment 21031

Of course it’s a multi facetted issue, I’m just pointing out that a DT playing at 280 better be among the very top at his position in quickness and agility if he is gong to have any hope of being effective.

 

[Ring 6]

I thought the 2003 team was amazing but the 2004 team was even better. Dillon makes the difference IMO.

But my god that 2003 D...

I’m going by what they did, rather than who is hypothetically better.
I get they were both 17-2 but that 2003 team was 17-2 against maybe the toughest schedule a Sb champ ever faced, and they didn’t lose after week 4, and honestly they was rarely any doubt they would ever lose

 

[captain stone]

If that's the case, the point remains true since the 2004 team is the one most Pats fans think was the best team that closed the deal. I guess I just want the excuse to justify my belief that the 2003 was even better. I can't get passed the fact that they beat TEN 10 win teams. Who has come close to doing that.

Thanks for the correction.

During the 2007 season, the Pats defeated 3/5 AFC PO teams, and it would've been 4/5 (Jacksonville was the 6th PO team but wasn't on the schedule) were it not for the morally repugnant, if not criminal, pre-game agreement between Indy and Tennessee on the last week of the season, an agreement that robbed Cleveland of any legitimate chance of getting in themselves. They also played - and of course defeated - the NFCE, which produced Both WC teams as well as their own division winner. Pretty damn impressive as well.

 

[luuked]

I don't understand how this re-watch thread turned into draft talk. We have NFL tape. Lets watch K.Davis tape.

Trust me I will be more vigilant with reporting posts that are off topic in the regular season. Hope some of the admins @Ross12 or @ashley1992 will help keeping this a football discussion only thread like most of last year.

 

[maineman209]

All it takes is just one team

This.

 

[maineman209]

After going undrafted, he was still unsigned for four months even though teams knew they wouldn't even need to waste a roster spot on him his first year.

Davis had a bulging disk in his neck that was only discovered during his Combine medical exam. Such neck issues can be career-enders, even for players having the added value of NFL experience, much less a rookie.

The standard treatment for bulging neck disks is to do nothing but monitor the bulge and hope that it recedes on its own. Surgery is a last resort, and then only if the bulge is causing ongoing debilitating symptoms. At least, that's what my neurologist told me when I had mine. The thing is, if the bulge DOES shrink, it can take months to recede to the point where normal activities* may be resumed (* NFL-level football is NOT considered to be a "normal" activity in medical terms).

When the Pats signed Davis to a 3-year contract on August 11th, 2017, it was widely presumed, at first, that he was brought in as a Camp body to fill out the DE ranks after Wise suffered a concussion. However, it was later revealed that he hadn't been taken off NFI to participate in practice because he wasn't yet medically cleared for football. Whether or not he received medical clearance later in Camp is unknown, but the Pats may have calculated that there was no point in (irreversibly) activating him by that time.

Through last year, the rule regarding NFI players was that they counted against the 90-man off-season roster until final cuts - the earliest date on which such a player could be designated Reserve/NFI for the regular season. So, in addition to (inexperienced rookie) Davis not being medically cleared after four months (and still at least some uncertainty about his future health), there was a roster-spot cost for a team that signed him. So, it seems to me highly unlikely than many (if any) other teams were interested in signing him, regardless how good his pre-Combine tape and measurables looked.

BTW, this rule was changed for the 2018 season so that a player may now be placed on Reserve/NFI at any time and NOT count against the off-season roster (e.g., Darren Andrews).

 

[maineman209]

he could have received offers from all 32 teams right after the draft and may have turned down offers with guaranteed money to play with NE.

Again, he apparently wasn't medically cleared for football until after mid-August. Seems unlikely that he'd have received a ton of offers, especially with his injury involving the cervical spine.

 

[Oswlek]

For all either of us know, he could have received offers from all 32 teams right after the draft and may have turned down offers with guaranteed money to play with NE.

I don't see a reason to go that far. Why not just say there were a handful of other teams with similar offers as NE that would be very interested in him now that he's regained health? So both could be true, low demand at the time yet still unlikely to clear waivers.

 

[long distance]

Trust me I will be more vigilant with reporting posts that are off topic in the regular season. Hope some of the admins @Ross12 or @ashley1992 will help keeping this a football discussion only thread like most of last year.

I don't mind if discussions evolve somewhat over the topic after initial concentration on film . and @reamer's draft data is certainly in context of film analysis . but talking draft speculations from 1.5 yrs ago by ignoring the film . in order to discuss players that are actually playing significant snaps in preseason games makes little sense and is not very productive to this thread . although I see it sparked quite a discussion (and since it is preseason i might add one post on that as well )

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Will stay on topic, friends. Just wanted to add context.

I think it's clear we've been working on blitz packages. Whether that carries over to the regular season is debatable, as PP2 and Andy have shown, but the rate of blitzing has been notable this preseason:

https://www.clnsmedia.com/film-review-patriots-new-look-pass-rush-is-getting-after-the-quarterback/

 

[Sicilian]

Will stay on topic, friends. Just wanted to add context.

I think it's clear we've been working on blitz packages. Whether that carries over to the regular season is debatable, as PP2 and Andy have shown, but the rate of blitzing has been notable this preseason:

https://www.clnsmedia.com/film-review-patriots-new-look-pass-rush-is-getting-after-the-quarterback/

It's so hard to judge, because we not only don't know what the Pats were working on, but we don't know what the Eagles' emphasis was either. If we were working on blitz packages at the same time they were tweaking blocking techniques or assignments with their OL, or trying out longer receiving routes, the results are obviously going to look pretty good for us.

Next week we might be trying more 3 man rush with 8 man zone coverage and everything will be, "ZOMG PASS RUSH SUX!" again.

 

[PP2]

It's so hard to judge, because we not only don't know what the Pats were working on, but we don't know what the Eagles' emphasis was either. If we were working on blitz packages at the same time they were tweaking blocking techniques or assignments with their OL, or trying out longer receiving routes, the results are obviously going to look pretty good for us.

Next week we might be trying more 3 man rush with 8 man zone coverage and everything will be, "ZOMG PASS RUSH SUX!" again.

Only problem with that premise is that it's not something that was evident in just one game. It's been evident all summer long, both at OTA's (HT's comment) at TC (my observations) and in both PS games. It merely "exploded" the last game, for a variety of reasons- maybe the Philly OL was playing crappy, or the players are getting into sync, or whatever.

 

[PP2]

Will stay on topic, friends. Just wanted to add context.

I think it's clear we've been working on blitz packages. Whether that carries over to the regular season is debatable, as PP2 and Andy have shown, but the rate of blitzing has been notable this preseason:

Film Review: Patriots New-Look Pass Rush is Getting After the Quarterback | CLNS Media

Not to pour more gas on the fire, but...

New play-caller Brian Flores has the Patriots defense playing fast and aggressive, and although it’s only the preseason, its working.

 

[Patjew]

I’m going by what they did, rather than who is hypothetically better.
I get they were both 17-2 but that 2003 team was 17-2 against maybe the toughest schedule a Sb champ ever faced, and they didn’t lose after week 4, and honestly they was rarely any doubt they would ever lose

That's a sound argument.

I would say that the 2004 team was much more impressive in the playoffs than the 2003 team.

 

[Sicilian]

Only problem with that premise is that it's not something that was evident in just one game. It's been evident all summer long, both at OTA's (HT's comment) at TC (my observations) and in both PS games. It merely "exploded" the last game, for a variety of reasons- maybe the Philly OL was playing crappy, or the players are getting into sync, or whatever.

Fair enough. I just feel like the pre-season and training camp is notoriously unreliable for these types of evaluations. Don't get me wrong, I'm as encouraged as everyone else, I'm just waiting to see what happens in week 1.