Cliff Avrill: SB 49 ruined Seattle

[PatsFanSince74]

Sometimes things go your way and sometimes it doesn’t. If you can control every outcome, then sports and life in general becomes meaningless. People who can’t transfer that burden become angry and look for blame. What happens, happens. There are no what ifs. Losers get stuck in what ifs. You can’t change the past. Move on. Win the next one.

Wise words.

Championships, both Conference and League, turn on officials' calls, coaches' decisions, "who can make a play" (as BB likes to say) and, yes, a little bit of luck. That's why getting to eight and winning five SB's is such an extraordinary accomplishment for the Patriots that we've followed over the last 17 seasons, going on 18.

I'm not the first person to say that the Pats could be 8--0 in their trips to the big game...or that they could be 0--8. Every time, it came down to a call, a decision, a play or a little luck. 5--3 is probably about right.

 

[Deus Irae]

Carroll already got them a Super Bowl and got them to another one. If you didn't buy into him then, the problem wasn't him it was the players and culture.

No, the problem was the call to pass. In New England, it's the call to bench the starting CB. If you make the "wrong" call in a game of that magnitude, you'd better be right. And, given what information we have right now, Carroll's move had a lot more to justify it than did BB's.

I agree. I can’t imagine a mutiny against Belichick after the Butler benching. Then again we got 5 rings

Mutiny is too strong a word, but BB has gotten plenty of blowback. We've even seen players question the move publicly, and that's not something that's done in New England, as Mr. Adalius Thomas learned.

 

[lancerman]

No, the problem was the call to pass. In New England, it's the call to bench the starting CB. If you make the "wrong" call in a game of that magnitude, you'd better be right.



Mutiny is too strong a word, but BB has gotten plenty of blowback. We've even seen players question the move publicly, and that's not something that's done in New England, as Mr. Adalius Thomas learned.

I agree with your premise that things are wrong when you lose on it, but the pass wasn't really the wrong call.

-Lynch had very poor statistics in short yardage
-Patriots were showing a look favorable to pass against
-An interception at the goal line hadn't occured all year
-the Seahawks had a strong success rate on that play.
-Even with Butler jumping the route, if Wilson placed the ball correctly it's likely a TD, at worst an incomplete.
-they were only going to be able to run the ball twice, adding a pass gave them an extra play, you weren't limiting the ability to run Lynch with that play call.

The only thing wrong about that call was:
-Belichick had the team practice that play
-Butler messed it up in practice and recognized it in the game as a result
-Browner being a former Seahawk recognized it and clued in Butler while also jamming the player who was supposed to disrupt Butler's route
-Wilson being a bit off on the pass made it more intercept-able

When you consider how the Seahawks only had seconds to make a playcall, they actually made the right one based off of statistics. They needed things to go exceptionally wrong for what happened to occur.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

They did about as good as you can these days for post sb success. Their window closed just like any other non patriots team in the salary cap era. But if blaming carroll makes them feel better, by all means.

 

[slam]

I wonder if the discussion of that INT is different if they came out in a jumbo package and the pass was a play action fade pattern that got picked. It’s something about that slant pattern that shifts all the blame from the players execution to the coaches.

What would have been really interesting was if the Seahawks caught the ball but Butler blasts him down at the 1. How prepared were they to call the next play? How much panic would be evident as the clocks ticking.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I agree with your premise that things are wrong when you lose on it, but the pass wasn't really the wrong call.

-Lynch had very poor statistics in short yardage
-Patriots were showing a look favorable to pass against
-An interception at the goal line hadn't occured all year
-the Seahawks had a strong success rate on that play.
-Even with Butler jumping the route, if Wilson placed the ball correctly it's likely a TD, at worst an incomplete.
-they were only going to be able to run the ball twice, adding a pass gave them an extra play, you weren't limiting the ability to run Lynch with that play call.

The only thing wrong about that call was:
-Belichick had the team practice that play
-Butler messed it up in practice and recognized it in the game as a result
-Browner being a former Seahawk recognized it and clued in Butler while also jamming the player who was supposed to disrupt Butler's route
-Wilson being a bit off on the pass made it more intercept-able

When you consider how the Seahawks only had seconds to make a playcall, they actually made the right one based off of statistics. They needed things to go exceptionally wrong for what happened to occur.

Exactly, right. Lynch was like 1/5 in GL that year.

The pass was the perfect call & that particular call is almost impossible to stop nowadays. If anything Kearse should have been the target. It's not like they were throwing it to Bolden or Fitz. A big, physical slot player who can handle some physicality.

 

[Deus Irae]

I agree with your premise that things are wrong when you lose on it, but the pass wasn't really the wrong call.

"Wrong" was in quotes there for a reason, and I put a bit of an addendum on my paragraph before you posted (but apparently after you started your reply, so you shouldn't be expected to have seen it). If you go back to the contemporaneous threads, you'll see that I defended the decision to pass. However, the particular pass called and thrown was certainly not the optimal choice, and hindsight plays that out in spades. That play should have been a lofted pass to the outside that only the receiver had a chance on not a throw into the middle of the field, when all the players were bunched up there.

 

[lancerman]

"Wrong" was in quotes there for a reason, and I put a bit of an addendum on my paragraph before you posted (but apparently after you started your reply, so you shouldn't be expected to have seen it). If you go back to the contemporaneous threads, you'll see that I defended the decision to pass. However, the particular pass called and thrown was certainly not the optimal choice, and hindsight plays that out in spades. That play should have been a lofted pass to the outside that only the receiver had a chance on not a throw into the middle of the field, when all the players were bunched up there.

If Wilson throws that pass better none of it matters.

 

[Deus Irae]

If Wilson throws that pass better none of it matters.

Having now looked at the play about a gazillion times, like pretty much every other NFL fan, I don't know that I fully buy that, but it would have made it a lot more difficult a play for Butler.

 

[lancerman]

Having now looked at the play about a gazillion times, like pretty much every other NFL fan, I don't know that I fully buy that, but it would have made it a lot more difficult a play for Butler.

It would have been very unlikely it ends up an interception. It could have, but Butler would have had to be precise and make an unreal play. The way the play panned out Butler really just needed that bump to get the ball.

 

[maust]

I'm not the first person to say that the Pats could be 8--0 in their trips to the big game...or that they could be 0--8. Every time, it came down to a call, a decision, a play or a little luck. 5--3 is probably about right.

7-1 at best, it did not come down to a decision, a play or a little luck against the Bears lol

 

[maust]

If Wilson throws that pass better none of it matters.

The pass could have been better thrown but really the read was bad, just look at the first few seconds of the video and see where the contact is made and the receiver lands, even if the pass is on the numbers Butler makes the tackle. Browner made the jam before the ball was released, a more experienced QB throws that away. It was one of Seattle's bread & butter plays, NE knew it cold and was ready for it but if Wilson understood what he was looking at there's no int. I guess a certain measure of the blame for that lack of recognition can be laid on his coaches but realistically it was more a play the Pats got right than Seattle got wrong. Good fortune is often the result of proper planning but in that instance it still relied on execution.

 

[102 Pat]

If it wasn't for the Packers "****ting the bed" in the NFC title game the Seahawks would of never made it to the SB...

 

[fightingirish595]

I buy it. I have said that game did that to them. Teams do not usually come back from stuff like that. They were not the same after that for a variety of reasons. This being one

 

[fxmallon]

If I were a Seattle player, I would remind myself that only the outright luckiest play in the game got them into position to even make this mistaken goal-line play. That awareness would definitely go a long way in making the outcome easier.

You might say that we at first had "the worst luck in the world" and then immediately after, as if the gods were atoning, they did. Although, there was clearly more luck in their initial catch, than in our subsequent interception.

 

[Simpelton]

Agree completely. I think Stinky Pete is a very good coach but his tolerance threshold for insubordination and "not rowing the same way" is higher than Bill's. I think that tends to allow discontent to grow roots.

I was watching Dan Marino, A Football Life the other day and there was a play in which Marino overruled Jimmy Johnson on a play call.

I venture to say if Tom a coach or a defensive player was doing that on a consistent basis as they have lost confidence and trust in BB's judgement and confidence in his leadership they would be taking an Uber out of Foxboro.

What are you talking about? Do you really think Brady is who he is because he does every little thing Bill tells him? I'd be willing to bet good cash money that tom takes the bit in his teeth a few times a game and tht game plan allows him to do it.

 

[TB_Helmet]

7-1 at best, it did not come down to a decision, a play or a little luck against the Bears lol

I think he means in the Brady era, where the Pats have been to 8 Super Bowls.

 

[everlong]

Brady audibles at the line all the time. It's what makes him the best. 3 and 1.5 yards to go and no defensive player over center a QB sneak. LB on Gronk switch to a fly route. Some of them are in the context of the offense but Bill totally trusts him to make those adjustments.

 

[RobertWeathers]

What are you talking about? Do you really think Brady is who he is because he does every little thing Bill tells him? I'd be willing to bet good cash money that tom takes the bit in his teeth a few times a game and tht game plan allows him to do it.

Tom is making the decisions that are allowed in the construct of the offense. Bill is completely comfortable with that.

Marino called an audible which was not allowed

Big difference.

 

[Todd Bradley]

The guy that made the play to “ruin their team”, isn’t even on the Patriots anymore.

If that doesn’t scream “get the hell over it already”, nothing does.