Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[luuked]

He still would have been better than Rowe or Bademosi. And it wouldn't have hurt to at least try him out after the backfield was getting roasted over and over.

Look I didnt like the benching because I have never been a fan of Rowe but pinning this on a single matchup is trivializing everything and also disrespecting an Eagles offense that called the right plays and executed most of the time. Nobody knows how those playcalls would have changed with Butler on the field. Once the call to bench him was made it he was gonna watch unless someone got injured.

 

[archstanton543]

Look I didnt like the benching because I have never been a fan of Rowe but pinning this on a single matchup is trivializing everything and also disrespecting an Eagles offense that called the right plays and executed most of the time. Nobody knows how those playcalls would have changed with Butler on the field. Once the call to bench him was made it he was gonna watch unless someone got injured.

I know this old chestnut of an argument too but since we're talking woulda-coulda-shoulda's it irrelevant to this situation as everyone knows you can't actually change the past.

 

[luuked]

I know this old chestnut of an argument too but since we're talking woulda-coulda-shoulda's it irrelevant to this situation as everyone knows you can't actually change the past.

I really dont see what the point of doing the woulda-coulda-shoulda dance is. It sucks for now but it is what it is and journeys to an imaginary plane where things worked out if they were just a little different will just prolong the pain.

 

[supafly]

I'm no coach, but the element of surprise--on your own players--seems like not really something you want before they play in the most hyped circus-like atmosphere of the year. I would think suddenly learning the guy with the experience of saving the Super Bowl, and the guy I've learned to communicate with all season, in favor of a backup I never played in a game with would rattle me somewhat.

I definitely get your point and it’s a solid one, but why do you view Rowe, Bademosi, or Richards as “backups (they) never played in a game with?” They all saw significant playing time this season. One of the staple core beliefs here is that all players are prepared to see situational reps and constantly changing week to week gameplans. They all played significant snaps this year and should’ve been ready. Besides, like I mentioned, it’s quite possible that Belichick had to weigh the disturbance that benching Butler ahead of time may have caused to their preparations.

If anything, the fact that dumbass Richards is still on this team is the biggest head scratcher to me. He only saw 11 coverage snaps last night and still managed to give up a team high 81 yards on 3 receptions. He takes bad angles. He whiffs on tackles. I think he sucks. If anything, he should be a ST only player if Belichick likes his play on that unit so much.

The injury and loss of Jones really hurt in this situation, as we discussed it early in the week. That is who I see as having the upper hand to replace Butler’s inside reps at the moment, as Rowe may win that job on the outside and Jones will play the slot. We still need to pick up another CB and definitely another SS to replace Richards.

 

[luuked]

Who fell down on that 3rd and 7 td that won the game

You'e telling me butler couldn' of gone out there and fell down?

I love how you show complete ignorance of how the Eagles designed that Ertz touchdown beautifully. Initially DMac had help on the inside on that play. Then Philadelphia motioned and moved his inside help to the other side. Which meant that to prevent the slant he needed to play it now with inside leverage. That being said if he adjusted for that the Ertz route might have become a fade instead.

The entire key to the TD play was the motion. It was great design. It definitely was not just a player falling down.

 

[festy1986]

I love how you show complete ignorance of how the Eagles designed that Ertz touchdown beautifully. Initially DMac had help on the inside on that play. Then Philadelphia motioned and moved his inside help to the other side. Which meant that to prevent the slant he needed to play it now with inside leverage. That being said if he adjusted for that the Ertz route might have become a fade instead.

The entire key to the TD play was the motion. It was great design.

He slipped running to cover the slant.

No telling what happens if he didn't.

Again. Just accept what happened. I have.

 

[luuked]

Do we know that for a fact? The article certainly suggests otherwise.

“Butler came to Minneapolis a day late and apparently paid the price for it by only playing on special teams.”

I don’t know what the truth is, but the article seems to strongly insinuate that his benching was punishment for showing up a day late.

This would explain the strange reporting on his health. Most beat guys were saying he looked fine except for Howe who was saying he looked clearly sick.

 

[Todd Bradley]

The fact that you refused to play the guy in the Super Bowl when you’re getting burned for 41 points, 22 at the half which was the most given up all season long, is complete and utter arrogance.

He’s been arguably our best corner all season long. To literally not even try him out in the second half is so mind-bogglingly stupid I can’t even fathom the rationale.

Make no mistake, Bill Belichick lost this game.

 

[luuked]

He slipped running to cover the slant.

No telling what happens if he didn't.

Again. Just accept what happened. I have.

Again this was a TD no matter what presnap as soon as the motion happened. The only thing stopping it would have been a bad Foles throw.

I am over the game. I just cant handle uninformed whining about things without even understanding half of the context.

 

[festy1986]

Again this was a TD no matter what presnap as soon as the motion happened. The only thing stopping it would have been a bad Foles throw.

I am over the game. I just cant handle uninformed whining about things without even understanding half of the context.

Do you wear glasses by chance?

Better yet. Are you psychic?

My uninformed opinion. According to you has to bow to your apparently skilled ability to tell what could of happened without having seen it is awesome.

Look. What we know is he slipped. We know had he NOT slipped that he could of POTENTIALLY stopped him just shy of the first down marker.

But I don't dwell on this because the game was lost about 7 drives before that.

 

[mb6592]

Rowe said he didn't find out he was starting until just before the game, and that Butler had been in the packages all week.

Gilmore said he found out Butler was out when everyone else (fans/media) did.

Butler was also warming up with the starters today.

This is all true and it's insane. It had to have been disruptive to the defensive unit to find this out hours before the game. This defense isn't great, but they looked dreadful last night, out of sync and just plain dreadful. Those who are buying the benching of Butler was just a game time decision and those defending this explanation are just being willfully obtuse. It makes zero sense to decide (and to buy the explanation) that Butler - after starting every game this season and having a major role in every game plan - was going to be useless to the Pats on defense last night - even after watching some horrendous defense being played. I don't know what the f--- happened last night but it's completely bizarre and merits a serious explanation.

 

[luuked]

Do you wear glasses by chance?

Better yet. Are you psychic?

My uninformed opinion. According to you has to bow to your apparently skilled ability to tell what could of happened without having seen it is awesome.

Look. What we know is he slipped. We know had he NOT slipped that he could of POTENTIALLY stopped him just shy of the first down marker.

But I don't dwell on this because the game was lost about 7 drives before that.

We know what happened. The Eagles play design with motions created easy reads for their QB the same way KC did in game 1.

The entire Ertz TD is almost football 101 in how simple it was to give their TE a 1v1 with a safety without help. I am sorry this goes over your head but slipping didnt matter as DMac was beat on the slant either way. Philly sent Clement across field towards the 3 WR stack in a jet motion which took Harmon down to the same side of the field leaving DMac alone on top against Ertz.

Ertz then simply just needed to make DMac commit either to the outside or inside and break accordingly. Foles held the ball until Ertz made his decision. Unless the offense screws the execution up this situation will end with a completion (and in the RZ with a TD) 8 out of 10 times. What DMac should have done there is to play inside leverage as soon as Harmon motioned with Clement and make Foles throw a perfect fade instead of giving him an easy slant.

There is nothing complicated about understanding this play. It was just another instance of bad situational football and overall poor execution from the defense.

 

[JFK]

Browner made a valid point that I didn’t even think about. Benching Butler DIVIDED that locker room.

 

[festy1986]

We know what happened. The Eagles play design with motions created easy reads for their QB the same way KC did in game 1.

The entire Ertz TD is almost football 101 in how simple it was to give their TE a 1v1 with a safety without help. I am sorry this goes over your head but slipping didnt matter as DMac was beat on the slant either way. Philly sent Clement across field towards the 3 WR stack in a jet motion which took Harmon down to the same side of the field leaving DMac alone on top against Ertz.

Ertz then simply just needed to make DMac commit either to the outside or inside and break accordingly. Foles held the ball until Ertz made his decision. Unless the offense screws the execution up this situation will end with a completion (and in the RZ with a TD) 8 out of 10 times. What DMac should have done there is to play inside leverage as soon as Harmon motioned with Clement and make Foles throw a perfect fade instead of giving him an easy slant.

There is nothing complicated about understanding this play.

Maybe if he doesn't slip he beats him to the spot. Like Butler. Who knows and who cares.

There were 50 other things that mattered in the outcome more than that play.

 

[supafly]

Browner made a valid point that I didn’t even think about. Benching Butler DIVIDED that locker room.

He may be right, He may be wrong, but why should we take what Browner has to say as gospel? The dude hasn’t been here in 3 years. Who really cares about his opinion on the matter?

I mean, why is he trying to give us inside information about this, even if a few/handful of players didn’t agree with it, which is totally possible, if not probable? I wouldn’t consider that to be a divided locker room. Did he poll all of the 60+ players on the team? His thoughts on the matter could be way off, especially if he’s gathering info from 2-3 players that he’s still friends with, which is what it sounds like.

 

[luuked]

Maybe if he doesn't slip he beats him to the spot. Like Butler. Who knows and who cares.

There were 50 other things that mattered in the outcome more than that play.

Everyone that watched the play knows that he would have not beat him to the spot. Just rewatch it and you will see that the moment he turned his hips the play was over.

Assuming everything else would have stayed the same (including the Brady strip sack) you are right that it would not have mattered either way in the big picture.

 

[luuked]

Browner made a valid point that I didn’t even think about. Benching Butler DIVIDED that locker room.

What is there to be divided about ? You are playing in the SB. Anyone that got distracted from doing their job by a benching needs to reevaluate their approach. What if Butler got hurt on the first play instead ? Saying this was a distraction that affected players speaks to their lack of mental toughness.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Do you wear glasses by chance?

Better yet. Are you psychic?

My uninformed opinion. According to you has to bow to your apparently skilled ability to tell what could of happened without having seen it is awesome.

Look. What we know is he slipped. We know had he NOT slipped that he could of POTENTIALLY stopped him just shy of the first down marker.

But I don't dwell on this because the game was lost about 7 drives before that.

We had a chance to win drives after that, but a costly fumble ended that hope. Game wasnt "lost"

 

[Todd Bradley]

What is there to be divided about ? You are playing in the SB. Anyone that got distracted from doing their job by a benching needs to reevaluate their approach. What if Butler got hurt on the first play instead ? Saying this was a distraction that affected players speaks to their lack of mental toughness.

But he didn’t get hurt on the first play.

He did however get benched pre-game, thus the crying during the National Anthem. Do you think the players, his close friends, didn’t notice that and take it into account?

Pretty hard to just block that from your mind, that one of your best players will be benched in the Super Bowl, for no apparent reason, which was a complete switch up of the two week long installed game-plan.

Belichick handicapped his team with this foolishness and lost us a Super Bowl. Zero way to defend any of this.

 

[festy1986]

We had a chance to win drives after that, but a costly fumble ended that hope. Game wasnt "lost"

The patriots shouldn't have to score 40 points to win the Superbowl.

Our offense. Regardless of the fumble wasn' ultimately the issue