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Still Have Not Heard It Yet

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You posted something. Someone replied. You replied. They replied. You replied. They replied. Etc.

Not stalking, you are engaging people in a debate. This is how it works in a discussion board.

When I want the argument to end I stop replying, as I suspect I will have to do with this tangent with you despite the fact I'm actually, in my own way, trying to stop you from constantly winding yourself up.

He continues to try to tell us Brady has never under-performed. I come with facts and reality, he comes with deflections and scapegoating.

Let me make this clear: Brady was MOSTLY responsible for being ****y going into SB 42, talking smack with Burress, and then choking. Brady's choking made David Tyree.

Why it is ok for the greatest offense ever, to only score 7 points in the biggest game of the year, until 2 mins remaining? How is this ok? If we only score 14 or 17 points on Sunday, we will lose because, wait for it.......This is an offensive era, which means the opponent ALSO has a nice offense, because they're built correctly like we are.

Get it?

In SB 46, yet again, after an absolutely putrid title game display, he had a chance to redeem himself and failed miserably. That is why we lost. Even he said he sucked! Hint: The Ds got us into SB 42 and SB 46. Can the offense kinda do its part? Please?

With me?

You can't expect our D, which is NOT The vested part of the team (It's offense and BB changed this approach with the rules in 2007), to somehow be forced to make incredible, game saving plays, because our GOAT QB underperformed. Sure, it's sweet when they do, but to think it HAS to happen because Brady under-performed is unfair and delusional all rolled into one.

If this was 2004? Sure. Sure. Pre-rule changes. I laugh when Bruschi talks about defense today. That dude would be getting dusted all over the field he played today.

Are you aware, before Brady's brilliance and the D shutting the door in 4th qtrs of SB 49 and SB 51, that he was actually playing an uneven SB yet again, replete with INTs and pick 6s, etc? We need a good Brady on Sunday and we're going to get it, because her's a much better QB now than what he was in 2007-2012, in postseasons. The proof is there.

I am thrilled beyond belief with him rising up and doing what he's done. He was incredible, but so were others. This is a team sport, but he does run that offense. Oh, yes he does.

Nothing more, nothing less.

It's not my problem some cannot mentally handle this information.
 

I'm not debating the Brady stuff with you, mostly because I have my own feelings on that topic and I don't really think I'd enjoy trying to discuss it with you.

The only thing I'm discussing is this absurd notion that you're being stalked. If you don't want to deal with replies walk away from the thread. I do it all the time.
 

Just walk away Fnord
You won't see me follow you back home
The empty sidewalks on my block are not the same
You're not to blame
 
Don't agree. Woodhead got too many carries. Woodhead is not an in between the Tackles guy. That's my point.

We never lost with BJGE as the true, defacto lead back in 2010 and 2011. It was only when we went finesse, with Woodhead as the feature back, did we get punched in the mouth.


Against good or great D's, we used too much Woodhead and went too finesse. You have to fight fire with fire.

Woodhead actually had more YPC running behind the center and the guards than BJGE did. But I agree with you that most of his rushing attempts should not have gone there. That said, I don't see how anyone can make the argument for BJGE getting more snaps than Woodhead when you considered what Woodhead was able to give the Pats offense on both the ground and in the passing game in that contest. He was able to keep their defense more honest than BJGE was.

Not even worth responding to, with you still pretending Brady plays an A game every time on the field simply because of his previous laurels from 2001-2004 under Weis.

There is no way you can be considered a real Pats fan if you're trying too sell us that he always plays well.

You're only a Brady fan if you're trying to sell us that

Actually, you have it backwards. This is what they call a "straw man". You also mixed in some old fashioned ad hominem for good measure on top of flat up making up things throughout the thread because you're getting your head handed to you systematically.

I haven't argued that he's always played his A-game at all. Hell, I didn't even argue that he played his A-game in both Super Bowls. What I DID argue was that he still played well enough to win the game before the defense collapsed on both occasions.

ignoring how god awful he was in the 2007 and 2011 title games, alone. So, you can JUST be a Brady fan only, give him special execptions, pretend he is above reproach, and the rest of us will be diehard, fair and objective fans who know the game.

LOL.

Not that the 2010 divisional rd game or the 2012 AFC title games were any better. Did you see him ducking ghosts pass rushers and staring over at O'Brien like a lost puppy like I did? Because I didn't dream that up. THAT happened.

Please show me where that happened. You can also use YouTube videos for these as well. If anyone here has Game Pass, even better. But we know that won't happen because it wasn't actually a problem. I know you're new here, but those claims were very thoroughly dispelled on this forum back then. Doesn't surprise me to see you try to make that claim here as well when you've also tried to claim that his footwork was worse/different back then than it is today (not sourced or proven), Bill asked JAG to attend the meetings with him and Brady (not proven), JAG was drafted with the specific purpose to push Brady (not sourced, later back tracked as "just an opinion").

I always felt bad for the Ds having to defend so many short fields and to deal with so many 3 and outs from our own offense. The offense was putrid, and it's FACTUALLY easier with bloated stats all over the place, starting with sweeping rule changes since 2006.

You're badly going off the rails here. The offense was nowhere near putrid given what they were dealing with in both contests. In 42, Neal exited the game early on and Brady was dealing with a gimpy ankle while pressure suddenly began happening in his face through the A and B gaps. They hit Brady 9 times, sacked him 3, and pressured him numerous other times. If you're seriously going to sit here and try to pin that loss on him then this place might not be the place you want to talk football. Even still, he led what should have been a game winning scoring drive if the defense even made one of the following key plays:

1. Recovered a fumble.

2. Asante made what should have been a routine interception.

3. Asante stayed on Tyree and didn't pass off the coverage to Rodney.

4. Seau didn't check into a casino blitz, leaving Hobbs on an island with Plaxico.

So yeah, the defense, with some help from the OL, blew that game. Brady put the team in a position to win. To claim otherwise is brain dead.

We've already covered 2011 to this point. Further, you even admitted a few posts ago that the defense was at fault so I'm not sure what we have left to cover here.

Oh no! A team had an 88 yard drive! That never happens elsewhere in the NFL! Nor does 4 YPC!

Devastating stuff!

lmao

Of course it happens elsewhere in the NFL, Chrissy. The problem comes when you're trying to pin this particular loss solely on the shoulders Brady, but Brady leaves the game on the second to last drive with the team ahead on the scoreboard only to have the defense give it up to the tune of 88 yards and a score. When that happens, you can soundly lay the blame on the defense. They entered the field with the lead. When they left the field, the team no longer had the lead nor did they have enough time to mount one last drive because they couldn't get off the field in a timely manner throughout the entire contest. In all but one occasion in the contest, the Giants were in New England territory when they punted which not only drained the clock, it also gave the offense long fields to work with. But, again, you know the defense was the issue.

You posted something. Someone replied. You replied. They replied. You replied. They replied. Etc.

Not stalking, you are engaging people in a debate. This is how it works in a discussion board.

When I want the argument to end I stop replying, as I suspect I will have to do with this tangent with you despite the fact I'm actually, in my own way, trying to stop you from constantly winding yourself up.

This is like watching a train wreck in slow motion. Only, instead of a train wreck, it's a 48 year old man with 900 posts in 27 days. Normally I wouldn't have time for this nonsense, but I'm off this week.
 
Not even worth responding to, with you still pretending Brady plays an A game every time on the field simply because of his previous laurels from 2001-2004 under Weis.

Feels like a strawman. Nobody is saying that Brady always plays well or played well in either Giants loss. I also wouldn't go the other extreme and say he was "gawd awful". He still had a passer rating in SB46 of over 90.

I always felt bad for the Ds having to defend so many short fields and to deal with so many 3 and outs from our own offense. The offense was putrid, and it's FACTUALLY easier with bloated stats all over the place, starting with sweeping rule changes since 2006.

The defense was bad. They were terrible in that Super Bowl, as lousy defenses tend to be more often than not. They allowed almost 30 carries and 115 yards to the 32nd (dead last) ranked rush offense in the league, and more egregiously, 7 first downs to said dead last ranked rush offense. Forget the talk about selling out vs the run to defend against the pass, I don't buy it. Selling out vs the run means that the other team can burn clock at the expense of the GOAT remaining on the sidelines. In no world is that a winning strategy or a good idea. No, they just flat out stunk. Period.

19 points allowed says a lot more about how weak that 2011 Giants team was more than anything that defense did. As Kontra said, the defense was given the chance to win the championship. And they failed. Period.

There is nothing false about any of the above statements.

As for Brady's response to Plaxico - yes I am with you there. It was a really stupid thing to say as was the "maybe they should read the rules" which triggered something else. Brady and the team paid for his arrogance both times. And I think given another chance he would have kept his mouth shut, as he's doing leading up to this game.
 
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The Ds got us into SB 42 and SB 46.

No, Billy Cundiff got us into SB46 when he missed an easy game tying FG after the defense allowed the Ravens to march from their own 20 to the Pats 14 with barely a minute and a half left.

When Eli got the ball for the last time in Super Bowl 46... anyone with a brain knew the outcome wouldn't end well for the Pats.

Like I said. The defense was bad. Period.
 
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BB saw what I saw with Brady's horrendous flaws in postseasons...

 
Just to interject, before going back to reading this thread: It's awfully damned funny that anyone's clueless enough to suggest that the most insanely, obsessively driven athlete of this century ~ that's Tom freaking Brady, for those scoring at home ~ needed his Coach to draft a prospective replacement to get motivated.
 
So, you are ok with brady putting 14 or 17 points on sunday, making a few key gaffes along the way, and us losing, huh?

Ok


I get both sides of it: On one hand, the QB battled it out against an elite D both times. He put the team in the lead with over 2 minutes left both times. The D didn't do their job.

On the other hand, he was airing it out
( giving time for the Giants to get to him) instead of running it. ( Maybe more on McDaniels). The play calling, safety, interception, and not so great throw to Welker, ensured the Giants had a chance in both games.

But in the end, it's a game of inches. I mean, what if holding was called and/or they hing onto Manning on the Tyree play? What if Asante Samuel was like four inches taller? What if Harrison goes to knock the ball down instead of going for the pick? What if Welker comes up with the grab in SB 46, what if the Patriots atrocious D can actually recover at least one fumble in SB 46?

But, it goes the other way too: what if Seattle had called a timeout with over a minute left, thus giving them more time to think of a different play? What if Shanahan has his offense run the ball with a two score plus lead? What if Kasey doesn't boot the ball out of bounds? What if the Rams tie SB 36 with about 30 or so seconds left instead of 1:20? What if Philly knew how to run a two minute offense in SB 39?

Long story short: The Patriots could easily be 7-0 in SB's since 01, but they could easily be 0-7 too. 5-2 is still pretty good. I guess I'm saying the QB isn't always majorly responsible for SB outcomes. It's a team effort.
 
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I'm not debating the Brady stuff with you, mostly because I have my own feelings on that topic and I don't really think I'd enjoy trying to discuss it with you.

The only thing I'm discussing is this absurd notion that you're being stalked. If you don't want to deal with replies walk away from the thread. I do it all the time.

They can't accept the reality and just keep posting. It's not even what the thread was about, so yes, clearly they are bullying/stalking.

Why don't you tell them to walk away? What color is the sky in your world anyway?

Brady absolutely sucked in those title games, came off disconnected from the team and was not much better in those SBs, so we lost. Very simple. Can't change history.
 
They can't accept the reality and just keep posting. It's not even what the thread was about, so yes, clearly they are bullying/stalking.

Why don't you tell them to walk away? What color is the sky in your world anyway?

Brady absolutely sucked in those title games, came off disconnected from the team and was not much better in those SBs, so we lost. Very simple. Can't change history.

The irony here.

 
what if the Patriots atrocious D can actually recover at least one fumble in SB 46?

That's right. That was pathetic. Nobody is going to convince me the defense played well in Super Bowl 46. They were lousy all year and lousy in that game too.
 
I get both sides of it: On one hand, the QB battled it out against an elite D both times. He put the team in the lead with over 2 minutes left both times. The D didn't do their job.

On the other hand, he was airing it out
( giving time for the Giants to get to him) instead of running it. ( Maybe more on McDaniels). The play calling, safety, interception, and not so great throw to Welker, ensured the Giants had a chance in both games.

But in the end, it's a game of inches. I mean, what if holding was called and/or they hing onto Manning on the Tyree play? What if Asante Samuel was like four inches taller? What if Harrison goes to knock the ball down instead of going for the pick? What if Welker comes up with the grab in SB 46, what if the Patriots atrocious D can actually recover at least one fumble in SB 46?

But, it goes the other way too: what if Seattle had called a timeout with over a minute left, thus giving them more time to think of a different play? What if Shanahan has his offense run the ball with a two score plus lead? What if Kasey doesn't boot the ball out of bounds? What if the Rams tie SB 36 with about 30 or so seconds left instead of 1:20? What if Philly knew how to run a two minute offense in SB 39?

Long story short: The Patriots could easily be 7-0 in SB's since 01, but they could easily be 0-7 too. 5-2 is still pretty good. I guess I'm saying the QB isn't always majorly responsible for SB outcomes. It's a team effort.

I agree they've given us some incredible SBs, and we could have won some others and lost some others. Absolutely. But, Brady factually had some responsibility in the losses, if not a huge bulk of it based on how little scoring we had.

I just heard Trey Wingo say Alex Smith's 2-5 postseason record is irrelevant, where the Chiefs suck in the red zone and settle for FGs, yet somehow a QB in an offensive era, has no control over this? HIlarious to me. Of course a QB has control over wins and losses. It's called scoring more than 20 points.

I literall

Even an average/above average QB like a Flacco, a Smith, etc, can put up 300 yards per week without batting an eye. It';s how the league is set up.

So, yes, when I see my offense not move field and go 3 and out over and oaver and over, yes, I feel that puts our D in an incredibly bad postion and it hurts the concept of complementary football.

Laughable beyond belief. Brady essentially runs our offense. If McDaniels wasn't even there, Brady would scan his head for 2 plays on every down and call the plays right there in the huddle, but somehow the QB does not play a vital role in a league where offense is critical based on how the rules are set up?

LOL

QB is the most important role in all of sports. Maybe a hockey goalie or an Ace pitcher in baseball come close. That's it.

If you're (not you, but our fanbse) going to bash Peyton Manning for chokejobs in the postseason for over a decade, you have to at least acknowledge when Brady throws too much with leads, and fails.

It's not a big deal. No one is perfect. This thread would not have gotten hijacked and trolled if the Brady Homers would just accept the reality that Brady is human, sucked sometimes, and it affected the chances to win.
Feels like a strawman. Nobody is saying that Brady always plays well or played well in either Giants loss. I also wouldn't go the other extreme and say he was "gawd awful". He still had a passer rating in SB46 of over 90.



The defense was bad. They were terrible in that Super Bowl, as lousy defenses tend to be more often than not. They allowed almost 30 carries and 115 yards to the 32nd (dead last) ranked rush offense in the league, and more egregiously, 7 first downs to said dead last ranked rush offense. Forget the talk about selling out vs the run to defend against the pass, I don't buy it. Selling out vs the run means that the other team can burn clock at the expense of the GOAT remaining on the sidelines. In no world is that a winning strategy or a good idea. No, they just flat out stunk. Period.

19 points allowed says a lot more about how weak that 2011 Giants team was more than anything that defense did. As Kontra said, the defense was given the chance to win the championship. And they failed. Period.

There is nothing false about any of the above statements.

As for Brady's response to Plaxico - yes I am with you there. It was a really stupid thing to say as was the "maybe they should read the rules" which triggered something else. Brady and the team paid for his arrogance both times. And I think given another chance he would have kept his mouth shut, as he's doing leading up to this game.


Sanchez had a passer rationg of 94 in the Buttfumble game. The Buttfumble was BAD. Really bad.

So was Brady's Safety, INT on 1st down in the 4th in Giants territory for no reason, and his less than accurate throw to Welker.

Just the facts, man.
 
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That's right. That was pathetic. Nobody is going to convince me the defense played well in Super Bowl 46. They were lousy all year and lousy in that game too.
Dominated in the T.O.P. battle, 100 yards rushing to a weak run offense, Eli 30-40 pass attempts, one punt forced in Giants territory, and an 88 yard touchdown drive to lose the game. They were terrible.
 
That's right. That was pathetic. Nobody is going to convince me the defense played well in Super Bowl 46. They were lousy all year and lousy in that game too.

LOL!

The D arguably played their best games of the year in the postseason, well since, November, after pitching shutouts for entire halves against Dallas or the Giants at home, but we lost (or almost lost to Dalsas) those games because Brady threw 2 and 3 INTs. Get it?

The D showed up in the postseason to almost their ceiling. The offense FACTUALLY DID NOT DO THIS.

Brady was simply AWFUL in the title ghame and mad the proclomation himself imediately after the game, all embarrassed how bad he was.

Thanks Sterling Moore and Billy Cundif! Moore played on our defense. Moore had a better postseason than Brady. Yep. Truth hurts and it's not my problem you're sensibilites are so delicate, that you can't admit this.

The pattern repeated itself in the title game, where the D made plays, held to FGs, and Brady goes right back out there and ruins it.

How about the sweet Spikes INT in the 4th on Flacco? What happened next? Some bizarre play call, Brady seeks out Slater into otriple coverage on first down, and we lose all momentum, throwing away an easy 3 points! This is absurd to call this stuff irrelevant.

NO ONE CAN CONVINCE ME THE OFFENSE PLAYED TO IT CEILING.
 
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Sanchez had a passer rationg of 94 in the Buttfumble game. The Buttfumble was BAD. Really bad.

Just the facts, man.

Except nobody is claiming Sanchez was "gawd awful" in that game. And for good reason. He had one embarrassing play but still threw for over 300 yards and had 8.4 yards per pass attempt.

Stop pretending the defense played well in the Super Bowl to further your argument. They stunk.

Big time.
 
LOL!

The D arguably played their best games of the year in the postseason, well since, November, after pitching shutouts for entire halves against Dallas or the Giants at home, but we lost (or almost lost to Dalsas) those games because Brady threw 2 and 3 INTs. Get it?

The D showed up in the postseason to almost their ceiling. The offense FACTUALLY DID NOT DO THIS.

Brady was simply AWFUL in the title ghame and mad the proclomation himself imediately after the game, all embarrassed how bad he was.

Thanks Sterling Moore and Billy Cundif! Moore played on our defense. Moore had a better postseason than Brady. Yep. Truth hurts and it's not my problem you're sensibilites are so delicate, that you can't admit this.

The pattern repeated itself in the title game, where the D made plays, held to FGs, and Brady goes right back out there and ruins it.

How about the sweet Spikes INT in the 4th on Flacco? What happened next? Some bizarre play call, Brady seeks out Slater into otriple coverage on first down, and we lose all momentum, throwing away an easy 3 points! This is absurd to call this stuff irrelevant.

NO ONE CAN CONVINCE ME THE OFFENSE PLAYED TO IT CEILING.

Just stop dude. It's laughable that you insist that defense was good in that game.

Brady didn't play well enough to carry a horrific defense. And they were horrible both that game and all year.

Period. The end.
 
Dominated in the T.O.P. battle, 100 yards rushing to a weak run offense, Eli 30-40 pass attempts, one punt forced in Giants territory, and an 88 yard touchdown drive to lose the game. They were terrible.


Was NE's D "terrible" last year vs Atlanta, or did the offense suck so bad in the first half vs a very mediocre D, they put the D in bad positions more so than their level of play in an offensive era?

NE's offense never scored again in the second half of SB 46. Explain how this is a good thing. We'll wait for your answer, ahem, I mean deflection attempts. lmao

How on god's green earth do you win a SB in an offensive era, when your own offense can't even get a FG in the entire half?

You do realize this EXACT same pattern showed up in other postseason games, right?

2006 in Indy...Same thing....The lone TD was off of an Ellis Hobbs kick off return to Indy's 10, setting that up. And, that was vs a putrid Indy D.

Super!

Let's applaud horrendous offensive disappearing acts as if it meant nothing. LMAO
 
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Just stop dude. It's laughable that you insist that defense was good in that game.

Brady didn't play well enough to carry a horrific defense. And they were horrible both that game and all year.

Period. The end.

The D was GOOD for their level of talent and ability. Absolutely. Allowing 13 points with no help from the offense in the second half at all, means YES, the D played good. Not great, but good.

It would have been BB's most epic coaching job having that D only allow 13 points.

The offense literally disappeared for an entire half and sucked so bad, it's comical you are tying to defend this epic embarrassment.
 
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The D was GOOD for their level of talent and ability. Absolutely. Allowing 13 points with no help from the offense in the second half at all, means YES, the D played good. Not great, but good.

It would have been BB's most epic coaching job having that D only allow 13 points.

The offense literally disappeared for an entire half and sucked so bad, it's comical you are tying to defend this epic embarrassment.

Like I said... laughable.
 
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