Belichick said he had "misinterpreted" NFL rules - true or BS?

[Metaphors]

Re: Belichick said he had "misinterpreted" NFL rules-true or bs?

I actually think this situation is a culmination of frustration built up over the last couple of years. Take a look at the situation in total and it kinda makes sense.

The Background
Belichick is a coach in the traditional sense...relying on teaching, preparation and intelligence to put his players in the best position to win. He has the dedication and work ethic, but he needs to control information to maximize his chances of winning.

The Environment
The policies of the NFL work exactly counter to Belichick's nature: they want coaches (including assistants) and players to be accessible to the media and they want to have a level playing field on the amount and type of information teams can gather.

The no video policy is especially galling to him. Belichick wants as much information as possible from every game (including games of upcoming opponents) to use as material for preparation. He doesn't have the time or inclination to do film study during the game or at halftime...and he certainly wouldn't trust an underling to make gameplan changes with video he hasn't seen. So the NFL is telling him that he has to have limited information (same as his opponents) for future preparation...even though he is not doing anything sneaky or underhanded to get the information.

As a quick aside, there is more to gather about watching opposing coaches besides "stealing signs". Are they slow to get signals in? Maybe we should go no-huddle. Do they change signals after we show our offensive formation? Maybe we should do a quick shift before the snap. And so on. All perfectly legitimate observations that he can't make during the game and broadcasts won't show him later. Now back to my ramblings...

The Hypocrisy
So Belichick is already frustrated that the league policies are aligned against him. Now he sees other organizations pulling underhanded tactics (Milloy/Branch tampering, players secretly wired for sound, overheated domes, etc.) and the league ignores it or calls it "gamesmanship"...while he gets crap for trying to gather information. Now Belichick is frustrated and his ego makes him ripe for picking a fight with the league. In fact, the memo sent out days before the game may have sent him over the edge.

The Miscalculations
Belichick knew sending out a camera guy would be a violation of a policy he didn't agree with, but he was going to make the league either stop him (and stop the other teams' "gamesmanship" as well) or let him coach the way he wants. That is all fine and dandy except he may 3 miscalculations:

1. NFL security took the camera/tape. I imagine he expected the camera guy to get ejected from the game at worst.
2. Goodell leaked information to the media. This allowed the question of league integrity to become front page news. Belichick has too much respect for the game, the Patriots and Robert Kraft to want that to happen.
3. The punishment involved a first round pick. Draft picks are gold to Belichick. The worst he could have expected as punishment would have been a 3rd (Denver's punishment for salary cap violations). The combination of Goodell's temperment, the environment in sports overall and the media frenzy combined to result in a penalty that has to be killing Belichick right now.

The Bottom Line
This incident was a "perfect storm" of past events, silly policies, big egos, a league's image problem and a lazy, sensationalizing media. Everyone (except the media) lost in this affair. The only positive that can be hoped for is that all of the "gamesmanship" that drove Belichick to a bad place will stop or be punished with equal severity. If not, this whole mess would have been for nothing.

 

[Remix 6]

like BB said. IT DOESNT MATTER

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Belichick said he had "misinterpreted" NFL rules-true or bs?

I actually think this situation is a culmination of frustration built up over the last couple of years. Take a look at the situation in total and it kinda makes sense.

The Background
Belichick is a coach in the traditional sense...relying on teaching, preparation and intelligence to put his players in the best position to win. He has the dedication and work ethic, but he needs to control information to maximize his chances of winning.

The Environment
The policies of the NFL work exactly counter to Belichick's nature: they want coaches (including assistants) and players to be accessible to the media and they want to have a level playing field on the amount and type of information teams can gather.

The no video policy is especially galling to him. Belichick wants as much information as possible from every game (including games of upcoming opponents) to use as material for preparation. He doesn't have the time or inclination to do film study during the game or at halftime...and he certainly wouldn't trust an underling to make gameplan changes with video he hasn't seen. So the NFL is telling him that he has to have limited information (same as his opponents) for future preparation...even though he is not doing anything sneaky or underhanded to get the information.

As a quick aside, there is more to gather about watching opposing coaches besides "stealing signs". Are they slow to get signals in? Maybe we should go no-huddle. Do they change signals after we show our offensive formation? Maybe we should do a quick shift before the snap. And so on. All perfectly legitimate observations that he can't make during the game and broadcasts won't show him later. Now back to my ramblings...

The Hypocrisy
So Belichick is already frustrated that the league policies are aligned against him. Now he sees other organizations pulling underhanded tactics (Milloy/Branch tampering, players secretly wired for sound, overheated domes, etc.) and the league ignores it or calls it "gamesmanship"...while he gets crap for trying to gather information. Now Belichick is frustrated and his ego makes him ripe for picking a fight with the league. In fact, the memo sent out days before the game may have sent him over the edge.

The Miscalculations
Belichick knew sending out a camera guy would be a violation of a policy he didn't agree with, but he was going to make the league either stop him (and stop the other teams' "gamesmanship" as well) or let him coach the way he wants. That is all fine and dandy except he may 3 miscalculations:

1. NFL security took the camera/tape. I imagine he expected the camera guy to get ejected from the game at worst.
2. Goodell leaked information to the media. This allowed the question of league integrity to become front page news. Belichick has too much respect for the game, the Patriots and Robert Kraft to want that to happen.
3. The punishment involved a first round pick. Draft picks are gold to Belichick. The worst he could have expected as punishment would have been a 3rd (Denver's punishment for salary cap violations). The combination of Goodell's temperment, the environment in sports overall and the media frenzy combined to result in a penalty that has to be killing Belichick right now.

The Bottom Line
This incident was a "perfect storm" of past events, silly policies, big egos, a league's image problem and a lazy, sensationalizing media. Everyone (except the media) lost in this affair. The only positive that can be hoped for is that all of the "gamesmanship" that drove Belichick to a bad place will stop or be punished with equal severity. If not, this whole mess would have been for nothing.

This is one of, if not THE, most sensible post I've read about this whole issue. And definitely the only one involving BB knowingly breaking the rule that makes sense. Great post, and there is a real good chance you could be spot on here.


The whole cheating, sign stealing, unfair advantage crap that is all over the place is what aggrivates me the most about this. The penalty was definitely steep, but Goodell was sort of backed into a corner. He had to come down hard on someone that violated a rule that was "clarified" 3 days prior, as well as having to come down hard after all the backlash and out of control spin on the issue. I dont have a huge problem with the punishment, I acknowledge BB broke a rule, but I am sick of hearing all the "cheating", "illegal sign stealing to get an advantage" crap that many keep spewing.


Again, great post.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Belichick said he had "misinterpreted" NFL rules-true or bs?

and what is the loop hole?

and if there was a loophole why not stand by your position- and make a
public statement such as "rule 3,.3.3 states that cameras may be ......and
that is what we did"

why does does a head coach of a team with 3 rings bring his owner, team
and fans down with him by acting like someone who has cheated and not taking a stronger position to himeself
and the owners?

Your opinion on what he should have done or how he should have acted is meaningless. What you suggest BB to do is not consistent with his personality. Watching BB for a while, what would give you the impression that he would ever do something like make a public statement about the exact rule and wording, which would just get into a debate about the wording etc..?

He broke a rule, apologized, we move on. I'll bet not one of his players are upset with him.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Belichick said he had "misinterpreted" NFL rules-true or bs?

A week ago, I would say that Belichick was too smart to make such miscalcualtions, but this post does show considerable insight into what might have happened.

I actually think this situation is a culmination of frustration built up over the last couple of years. Take a look at the situation in total and it kinda makes sense.

The Background
Belichick is a coach in the traditional sense...relying on teaching, preparation and intelligence to put his players in the best position to win. He has the dedication and work ethic, but he needs to control information to maximize his chances of winning.

The Environment
The policies of the NFL work exactly counter to Belichick's nature: they want coaches (including assistants) and players to be accessible to the media and they want to have a level playing field on the amount and type of information teams can gather.

The no video policy is especially galling to him. Belichick wants as much information as possible from every game (including games of upcoming opponents) to use as material for preparation. He doesn't have the time or inclination to do film study during the game or at halftime...and he certainly wouldn't trust an underling to make gameplan changes with video he hasn't seen. So the NFL is telling him that he has to have limited information (same as his opponents) for future preparation...even though he is not doing anything sneaky or underhanded to get the information.

As a quick aside, there is more to gather about watching opposing coaches besides "stealing signs". Are they slow to get signals in? Maybe we should go no-huddle. Do they change signals after we show our offensive formation? Maybe we should do a quick shift before the snap. And so on. All perfectly legitimate observations that he can't make during the game and broadcasts won't show him later. Now back to my ramblings...

The Hypocrisy
So Belichick is already frustrated that the league policies are aligned against him. Now he sees other organizations pulling underhanded tactics (Milloy/Branch tampering, players secretly wired for sound, overheated domes, etc.) and the league ignores it or calls it "gamesmanship"...while he gets crap for trying to gather information. Now Belichick is frustrated and his ego makes him ripe for picking a fight with the league. In fact, the memo sent out days before the game may have sent him over the edge.

The Miscalculations
Belichick knew sending out a camera guy would be a violation of a policy he didn't agree with, but he was going to make the league either stop him (and stop the other teams' "gamesmanship" as well) or let him coach the way he wants. That is all fine and dandy except he may 3 miscalculations:

1. NFL security took the camera/tape. I imagine he expected the camera guy to get ejected from the game at worst.
2. Goodell leaked information to the media. This allowed the question of league integrity to become front page news. Belichick has too much respect for the game, the Patriots and Robert Kraft to want that to happen.
3. The punishment involved a first round pick. Draft picks are gold to Belichick. The worst he could have expected as punishment would have been a 3rd (Denver's punishment for salary cap violations). The combination of Goodell's temperment, the environment in sports overall and the media frenzy combined to result in a penalty that has to be killing Belichick right now.

The Bottom Line
This incident was a "perfect storm" of past events, silly policies, big egos, a league's image problem and a lazy, sensationalizing media. Everyone (except the media) lost in this affair. The only positive that can be hoped for is that all of the "gamesmanship" that drove Belichick to a bad place will stop or be punished with equal severity. If not, this whole mess would have been for nothing.

 

[patsfan13]

Re: Belichick said he had "misinterpreted" NFL rules-true or bs?

BB made his case to the commish, the commish ruled against BB & the Pats.

He could make a big stink trying to 'prove' he is right. The media would have a field day cruxifying BB.

The result? A distracted team. BB is about winning football games not winning unwinnable arguments. He is cutting his losses and moving on.

HE will use this situation to motivate his team as the rest of the NFL will see this season.

 

[emoney_33]

I haven't seen or heard one comment by a current coach or player, outside of the Patriots' organization, that even comes close to defending the actions of Belichick & Co.

So... are we supposed to believe that the "Genius" who masterminded 3 Superbowl wins in 4 years suddenly became dumber than Paris Hilton? How the F_ck does a man with the brain power of Bill Belichick not know that it's against the rules to have his own camera man on the sidelines taping the other team???

Again, he's the one who said he didn't know it was against the rules. Right? Right. If he really was a stand up guy and wanted to set an example for his players, he'd come clean and say something more like: "You know, I knew that not every team does it but no one has ever told me we couldn't do this and since I had been doing it for so long I just didn't think it was an issue. I made a mistake, I'll pay the penalty, and we will move forward."

But no. He lied. That's the real issue. He lied about not knowing it was against the rules. And obviously plenty of players, coaches, and front office people around the league knew the Pats had been doing this for quite some time. So now that he got caught red-handed, everyone is coming out and saying: "Yeah, we knew... but we just didn't want to say anything until now"

At least, this is the way it looks to me.

I guess you just only hear what you want. The pats have already been defended on this issue by numerous players, coaches, former players and former coaches.

BB said he misinterpreted the rule and you accuse him of lying. By doing that you are trying to convince us that you are a mind reader and know exactly what belichick thinks. READ THE RULE EXACTLY, at the end it says "...in a game". The rule can EASILY be interpreted to mean that you cannot use video cameras to gather information to be used in the game. But the commish's interpretation is all that matters. Move on, get lost, try not be so jealous of the pats

 

[patsfan13]

good analysis. a few things i disagree with (hypocrisy - he's done just about every one of those things on your list) but i don't think goodell leaked the info, that is the last thing he wanted. It was definitely somebody with the jets, although probably not mangini imo.

Mangini had the motive. THe focus on BB has kept him from having to account for the horrible performance of his team in a game they had 6 months to prepare for.

He couldn't predict the magnitude ensuing media firestorm however.

 

[mgteich]

Why did Belichick feel driven to tape the signals of the pathetic jets?

 

[patsfan13]

Why did Belichick feel driven to tape the signals of the pathetic jets?

We will never know, since I presume the Pats will no longer tape it doesn't matter.

 

[emoney_33]

Why did Belichick feel driven to tape the signals of the pathetic jets?

Why do you feel driven to assume he was taping SIGNALS (from the jets sideline no-less when it's easier to see signs from accross the field on the pats sideline).

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Re: Belichick said he had "misinterpreted" NFL rules-true or bs?

Quality post, but there are 1-2 things I'd diagree with. I'll comment in red (easier that way)

I actually think this situation is a culmination of frustration built up over the last couple of years. Take a look at the situation in total and it kinda makes sense.

The Background
Belichick is a coach in the traditional sense...relying on teaching, preparation and intelligence to put his players in the best position to win. He has the dedication and work ethic, but he needs to control information to maximize his chances of winning. Agreed 100%

The Environment
The policies of the NFL work exactly counter to Belichick's nature: they want coaches (including assistants) and players to be accessible to the media and they want to have a level playing field on the amount and type of information teams can gather. Agreed 100%

The no video policy is especially galling to him. Belichick wants as much information as possible from every game (including games of upcoming opponents) to use as material for preparation. He doesn't have the time or inclination to do film study during the game or at halftime...and he certainly wouldn't trust an underling to make gameplan changes with video he hasn't seen. So the NFL is telling him that he has to have limited information (same as his opponents) for future preparation...even though he is not doing anything sneaky or underhanded to get the information. Agreed 100%

As a quick aside, there is more to gather about watching opposing coaches besides "stealing signs". Are they slow to get signals in? Maybe we should go no-huddle. Do they change signals after we show our offensive formation? Maybe we should do a quick shift before the snap. And so on. All perfectly legitimate observations that he can't make during the game and broadcasts won't show him later. Now back to my ramblings... Still rolling good stuff

The Hypocrisy
So Belichick is already frustrated that the league policies are aligned against him. Now he sees other organizations pulling underhanded tactics (Milloy/Branch tampering, players secretly wired for sound, overheated domes, etc.) and the league ignores it or calls it "gamesmanship"...while he gets crap for trying to gather information. Now Belichick is frustrated and his ego makes him ripe for picking a fight with the league. In fact, the memo sent out days before the game may have sent him over the edge. Possibly, but I think he always went back to the initial wording of the rule, which does say "for use in game". I think he hung on that one phrase (despite the memo's) as his "out" argument. He thought he could wiggle out from underneath any accusation, cuz he was using it for post-game purposes. He wasn't looking to pick a fight, he just bet on a bad hand.


The Miscalculations
Belichick knew sending out a camera guy would be a violation of a policy he didn't agree with, but he was going to make the league either stop him (and stop the other teams' "gamesmanship" as well) or let him coach the way he wants. That is all fine and dandy except he may 3 miscalculations: Again, with the following caveat that I think he though he had a lot stronger argument then he actually did. He thought if anyone ever said anything, he could just pull out the rule and say "see, it say's in-game, and I wasn't using it in-game". Again, betting on a bad hand.

1. NFL security took the camera/tape. I imagine he expected the camera guy to get ejected from the game at worst.I'd agree
2. Goodell leaked information to the media. This allowed the question of league integrity to become front page news. Belichick has too much respect for the game, the Patriots and Robert Kraft to want that to happen. NO WAY Goodell leaked this, it was done by someone in the JETS organization. The last thing Goodell wanted was to be forced into a judge/jury situation with the guy primarily responsible for putting him in there, Kraft (who's also a friend)
3. The punishment involved a first round pick. Draft picks are gold to Belichick. The worst he could have expected as punishment would have been a 3rd (Denver's punishment for salary cap violations). The combination of Goodell's temperment, the environment in sports overall and the media frenzy combined to result in a penalty that has to be killing Belichick right now. I disagree here. The punishment was set in stone from the start. Goodell beleived BB did something wrong (even if he didn't, I don't think it would have mattered), but because of his relationship with Kraft, there is NO WAY he could come down with anything preceived as leiniant (media influance comes in here). Not with stuff he's already doled out this year. I also beleive Kraft nodded approval before it came down, or at the very least told them "go ahead, whack us, but don't make it hurt to bad." (like removing BB from the sidelines for 4-6 weeks). We had two picks in the first going in. One became the sacrificial lamb.

The Bottom Line
This incident was a "perfect storm" of past events, silly policies, big egos, a league's image problem and a lazy, sensationalizing media. Everyone (except the media) lost in this affair. The only positive that can be hoped for is that all of the "gamesmanship" that drove Belichick to a bad place will stop or be punished with equal severity. If not, this whole mess would have been for nothing..I'd agree

Again, I don't think that Kraft manipulated anything or any one in this at all. But in the grand scheme of all this mess, the NFL is a business and this whole affair was a big, huge, ugly mess for everyone involved. Like everything in business, the result was a business decision. That's my opinion

We got smacked (hard)
BB is personally punished for his error
we'll remains competitive
and Goodell saved face and still appears tough on league matters.

 

[JDP111]

I read none of the posts. The answer is--it doesn't matter!!!!!!!!

 

[JDP111]

Why did Belichick feel driven to tape the signals of the pathetic jets?

It makes no difference who they were playing, IMO. They were doing it with the f'ing Packers and Lions!!

 

[mgteich]

That is the exactly the point.

It makes no difference who they were playing, IMO. They were doing it with the f'ing Packers and Lions!!

 

[Pats_AZ]

I haven't seen or heard one comment by a current coach or player, outside of the Patriots' organization, that even comes close to defending the actions of Belichick & Co.

So... are we supposed to believe that the "Genius" who masterminded 3 Superbowl wins in 4 years suddenly became dumber than Paris Hilton? How the F_ck does a man with the brain power of Bill Belichick not know that it's against the rules to have his own camera man on the sidelines taping the other team???

Again, he's the one who said he didn't know it was against the rules. Right? Right. If he really was a stand up guy and wanted to set an example for his players, he'd come clean and say something more like: "You know, I knew that not every team does it but no one has ever told me we couldn't do this and since I had been doing it for so long I just didn't think it was an issue. I made a mistake, I'll pay the penalty, and we will move forward."

But no. He lied. That's the real issue. He lied about not knowing it was against the rules. And obviously plenty of players, coaches, and front office people around the league knew the Pats had been doing this for quite some time. So now that he got caught red-handed, everyone is coming out and saying: "Yeah, we knew... but we just didn't want to say anything until now"

At least, this is the way it looks to me.

Actually, it's the former coaches, current coaches and former players that seem to be defending BB. The media (ESPN Radio) has been killing him about everything! Also it's funny how no coaches that are interviewed have come out and flat denied that they themselves do it. No one has said "well we definately don't steal signs" or "we have never video taped any coaches during a game" or "we would never mike up a defensive lineman" yada yada. kinda makes you wonder...

 

[emoney_33]

WRONG
http://www.kgw.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D8RLISV80.html

But please, continue. You were saying something about current coaches and players defending BB? Links please.

did you just use an example of one coach not supporting him to "prove" him wrong? LOL

Madden, Salisbury, Peete, CJ, Martz to name a few. But hey Holmgren doesn't support us so that's everyone, it's over.

 

[Pats_AZ]

WRONG
http://www.kgw.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D8RLISV80.html

But please, continue. You were saying something about current coaches and players defending BB? Links please.

Oh, and I found this for you too:
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/09/13/a_sorry_state/?page=2
The league's game operations manual states that "no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game." Teams are allowed to record games, but the manual also states that "all video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."

In addition, Ray Anderson, the league's head of football operations, sent a memo to head coaches and general managers Sept. 6, 2006, that read: "Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."

Pretty easy to misinterpret that. Huh?

Sorry, no links....i listen to satelite radio (espn) all day and once in a while they will have some coach or ex player come on and pretty much state that this is well overblown and like I've said i haven't heard any coach come on and say "We would or never have done that" Oh i think even Keyshawn Johnson defended BB.

 

[Pats_AZ]

It's been said so many times but i will say it once more....it is utterly stupid to think that no other team steals signs, or trys to get a "competetive advantage" in this game. Is pumping in extra noise during another teams possession not gaining a "competetive advantage"? Stealing signs from anywhere in the stadium, is this not gaining a "competetive advantage"? BB broke a rule....we all aknowledge that....but lets not be stupid and think that the Pats were and are the only team trying to gain an edge.

 

[Pats_AZ]

Yeah. I listen to Sirius and ESPN.com. I heard Keyshawn's take. He's not a current player or coach. So he doesn't count. I'm not talking about media people. I'm simply saying that I haven't heard or read any quotes from current players or coaches defending him. They might be saying "oh, I think some of this is blown out of proportion" but no one is saying that the rule could have been misinterpreted. NO ONE. Well, Except for BB, that is.

Why would a current player do that? I am saying I have heard current coaches kinda dance around it....but not one of them has come out and flat denied it. The Ex players are the ones that always have the best insight to the game. It's the current players that are the ones that cry about how the Pats beat them. The current players can't handle the truth!