Vanilla - preseason defense

[Kontradiction]

Because Cover 3 would have prevent miscommunications ? The scheme was not the issue but individual breakdowns.

The argument is not about miscommunications. Believe it or not, miscommunications tend to happen with zone coverage responsibilities more often than you know. What the Cover-3 would have given you that quarter did not is two additional guys whose primary responsibility would be to go after the quarterback while still accomplishing the same purpose with zones on a short field. Once again, there is a very good reason why teams usually don't play quarter at that end of the field. The Patriots did, gave him all day to find something, and there was a score.

 

[PrairiePat]

I love seeing the big picture of the play, thanks for posting it.

I'm wondering whose responsibility it is to pick up the crossing receiver there - the 2 deep defenders on that side have been run off by other receivers toward the back/center of the endzone. Chung appears to be playing the underneath area, and assumes he has help deep, but in this case with Seattle flooding that zone, he really doesn't.

It's certainly not Ryan's fault - he's playing the other side of the field, and hands the crosser off once he gets about halfway across, which seems right.

Anyone with good knowledge of this type of zone want to chime in here? Who should be on the crossing receiver in this case? I'm guessing Chung, since he's really the only one left in the area, but it's not an easy read with the play being allowed to develop for that long.

 

[TennisBallHead]

In the past we've seen BB play these types of games like pulling starters in the last game of the season and getting a more favorable seeding. So maybe he was anticipating a matchup with Seattle in the super bowl. The problem is that Dallas is also really really good.

Exactly. Which is why he wasn't thinking about that.

 

[jah]

Really, I don't think he has much say, good or bad. This is Bills defense.

What's Patricia do here then? Focus on technique?

 

[luuked]

I love seeing the big picture of the play, thanks for posting it.

I'm wondering whose responsibility it is to pick up the crossing receiver there - the 2 deep defenders on that side have been run off by other receivers toward the back/center of the endzone. Chung appears to be playing the underneath area, and assumes he has help deep, but in this case with Seattle flooding that zone, he really doesn't.

It's certainly not Ryan's fault - he's playing the other side of the field, and hands the crosser off once he gets about halfway across, which seems right.

Anyone with good knowledge of this type of zone want to chime in here? Who should be on the crossing receiver in this case? I'm guessing Chung, since he's really the only one left in the area, but it's not an easy read with the play being allowed to develop for that long.

I think @KontradictioN knows a ****ton more than me about this kind of stuff so I will refer to him but from my point of view there was no reason for Chung to even play the underneath. The middle of the field was flooded with our players so he should have stayed up top no matter what. Anything but a completion to the endzone doesnt matter anyway.

Now according to what Mayo said in his short clip with Curran it doesn't look like Ryan screwed this up because he was supposed to escort the Seattle player out of his zone but no further.

 

[luuked]

What's Patricia do here then? Focus on technique?

I don't get why people say this is Bills defense. While BB has most probably final say on a lot of things and also dictates the direction the team wants to take it is Patricias responsibility to draw up the schemes and implement them with help of the positional coaches.

I am sure Bill gives his input when they are designing them during game planning but in the end this is on Patricia.

 

[Kontradiction]

I think @KontradictioN knows a ****ton more than me about this kind of stuff so I will refer to him but from my point of view there was no reason for Chung to even play the underneath. The middle of the field was flooded with our players so he should have stayed up top no matter what. Anything but a completion to the endzone doesnt matter anyway.

Now according to what Mayo said in his short clip with Curran it doesn't look like Ryan screwed this up because he was supposed to escort the Seattle player out of his zone but no further.

I'm not able to play your GIF at work so I'll have to wait to see it but, based on what I can remember, I thought Chung was at fault for that one when I saw it in real time. It looked like Chung should have been playing a bit deeper than he was.

 

[mosi]

What's Patricia do here then? Focus on technique?

I think he does coffee.

 

[AHoodieWorshipperInParis]

What's going on with Mingo ? He couldn't even garner a Ayers-esque role after 10 full weeks in the organization despite his terrific athleticism. I thought he looked promising enough in preseason to get some defensive snaps after the Collins trade. He may not/not yet/never be a 3-down LB, but i'm sure he couldn't do any worse than Shea McClellin, at least on 3rd downs...

 

[Kontradiction]

What's going on with Mingo ? He couldn't even garner a Ayers-esque role after 10 full weeks in the organization despite his terrific athleticism. I thought he looked promising enough in preseason to get some defensive snaps after the Collins trade. He may not/not yet/never be a 3-down LB, but i'm sure he couldn't do any worse than Shea McClellin, at least on 3rd downs...

He sucks?

 

[AHoodieWorshipperInParis]

He sucks?

He looked OK when asked to cover a RB on 3rd down in the 2nd half in an october game (don't remember whether it was Gio Bernard or against Cleveland). McClellin is terrible in pass defense, he looks like a 8+secs 3-cone / 5+secs 40yard player.

I can't believe Belichick AKA the best professional talent evaluator AKA the D genius could miss on 3 LB (Mingo, McClellin, KNV) in a row, and while getting them in practice plenty of time, still elect to get rid of Collins, the most proven player. I hope one of them can step up / stop struggling, otherwise this D is going nowhere.

 

[slash83]

He sucks?

Yup, guy made few nice plays vs role players and people who aren't on current NFL rosters and people here were making him the next Brian Urlacher.

 

[PF_SU]

But the only objective here is the endzone. You don't even have to play the receivers, because a completion outside the endzone doesn't help them.

The coaching tape just became available on gamepass and I will check it out but if Chung would have stayed in his zone instead of drifting to the underneath (for no reason at all) Wilson would have to throw the ball away to preserve the FG.

EDIT:

I watched it a couple of times now and will try to make a gif out of it, but I wouldn't be surprised if Chatham puts that play into his video review anyway. I don't see any issue with the play call except for how Ryan/Chung blew it.



Just look how Chung makes a few steps to the 10 yards marking just about at the same time when Ryan "handed" the Seattle player off. Everyone else is covered and Wilson has nowhere to go if it wasn't for that fatal error between the two.

I understand what you are saying about quarters but my point is that in this situation it doesn't matter because it's TD or bust.

Apparently Carroll was caught on the NFL Films tape of the game wanting Wilson to throw it away before he found the wide-open Baldwin.

 

[AHoodieWorshipperInParis]

Yup, guy made few nice plays vs role players and people who aren't on current NFL rosters and people here were making him the next Brian Urlacher.

Maybe not the next Urlacher, obviously not, but the next Ayers/Casillas role player would be OK. Belichick's magics can't work everytime, but they really need to get some decent defensive production from one of those three "reclamation projects" at least + Roberts, otherwise the phantom of Jamie Collins Sr. will be haunting Foxboro come January.

 

[slash83]

Maybe not the next Urlacher, obviously not, but the next Ayers/Casillas role player would be OK. Belichick's magics can't work everytime, but they really need to get some decent defensive production from one of those three "reclamation projects" at least + Roberts, otherwise the phantom of Jamie Collins Sr. will be haunting Foxboro come January.

Either they figure something or don't, time will tell. But yeah hopefully someone steps up and the defense gets their heads out their asses, they cant be as bad as they looked vs Sea.

 

[slash83]

Maybe not the next Urlacher, obviously not, but the next Ayers/Casillas role player would be OK. Belichick's magics can't work everytime, but they really need to get some decent defensive production from one of those three "reclamation projects" at least + Roberts, otherwise the phantom of Jamie Collins Sr. will be haunting Foxboro come January.

Either they figure something or don't, time will tell. But yeah hopefully someone steps up and the defense gets their heads out their asses, they cant be as bad as they looked vs Sea.

 

[slash83]

Maybe not the next Urlacher, obviously not, but the next Ayers/Casillas role player would be OK. Belichick's magics can't work everytime, but they really need to get some decent defensive production from one of those three "reclamation projects" at least + Roberts, otherwise the phantom of Jamie Collins Sr. will be haunting Foxboro come January.

Either they figure something or don't, time will tell. But yeah hopefully someone steps up and the defense gets their heads out their asses, they cant be as bad as they looked vs Sea.

 

[luuked]

Apparently Carroll was caught on the NFL Films tape of the game wanting Wilson to throw it away before he found the wide-open Baldwin.

If you look at the coverage downfield and underneath then everybody did their job. You can argue about quarters vs. cover 3 in this situation but the touchdown was not due to a schematic problem but an individual breakdown that can potentially occur in any scheme.

So I am not surprised that Carroll felt like he should throw it away because Baldwin only gets open at the very end of the timeframe Wilson has to throw the ball away.

That being said, I get @KontradictioN 's point about cover 3 and being more aggressive on the QB in this situation. But my point stands, the call to rush only 3 was sound and doesn't deserve the ridicule it gets just because of its outcome.