Joe Staley? What is wrong with O'Call/Kazcur?

[jbb9s]

I don't want to open a pandoras box here, but now nfl.com is now showing a center being taken. Koppen just got re-signed halfway through last season! I am starting to think everyone on the OL is a liability except Logan Mankins. Should this be its own thread?


New England: Ryan Kalil, C, USC -- With two first-round picks and a very aggressive offseason in the free-agency market, the Patriots can afford to take the highest-rated center and not worry about the position for a very long time.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/10081020

 

[SamBamsFan]

I know. Because they're so much worse than Ashworth and Gorin were.

Kaczur isn't as bad as some are claiming, but he's definitely more suited to play LT than RT.

How do you figure?

 

[sebman2112]

I don't want to open a pandoras box here, but now nfl.com is now showing a center being taken. Koppen just got re-signed halfway through last season! I am starting to think everyone on the OL is a liability except Logan Mankins. Should this be its own thread?


New England: Ryan Kalil, C, USC -- With two first-round picks and a very aggressive offseason in the free-agency market, the Patriots can afford to take the highest-rated center and not worry about the position for a very long time.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/10081020

I was thinking about Kalil the other day, but can either he or Koppen play another position? That's the only way I would draft Kalil.

 

[unoriginal]

I don't want to open a pandoras box here, but now nfl.com is now showing a center being taken. Koppen just got re-signed halfway through last season! I am starting to think everyone on the OL is a liability except Logan Mankins. Should this be its own thread?


New England: Ryan Kalil, C, USC -- With two first-round picks and a very aggressive offseason in the free-agency market, the Patriots can afford to take the highest-rated center and not worry about the position for a very long time.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/10081020

I consider this proof-positive most of these mocks are pulling **** out of their ass and have no merit whatsoever.

 

[BradyManny]

LOL on that mock draft - Dan Koppen has got to be amongst the most secure Patriots on the team.

 

[DaBruinz]

What's up with being so condenscending? Just a spirited discussion but now I feel like I need to defend myself:

There was nothing condescending about my response. Seems that you have some issue with someone pointing out very VALID arguments. Ones that can't be ignored when one is talking about the draft. If you ignore them, then you are setting yourself for failure.

1: AFCC - It exhibited one thing clearly: depth is an issue on defense. It was the biggest meltdown statistically speaking in the history of the NFL's championship games (thats 82 played). Thats an pretty objective statement. If you want to blame that on the offense, I'd say "hmm, scoring 30+ points is a pretty good offensive performance - good enough to win every other game BB has ever coached in fact".

So, basically, you didn't watch the game, did you? While the defense DID allow 32 points, you look at things in a vacuum and totally discount that the Pats OFFENSE couldn't stay on the field. Anyone who watches football KNOWS that late in the game that the OFFENSE getting 1st downs is just as important as the defense keeping the other team to score.

2. MLB - wow - do you want to have a conversation about the topic of discussion or semantics.

Its not a matter of semantics. The ILB position requires a different skill set than the MLB position. And, if you want to get technical, YOU are the one who went off topic to begin with.

3. Is the fact that Bruschi had a stroke make him any more likely/unlikely to return as if he had a heart attack. Address the point: Bruschi's liklehood to contribute next year is as questionable as O'callaghan.

Wait a minute. You want me to address a point that you didn’t even make clear to begin with because you didn’t know that Bruschi had a stroke and not a heart attack. Do you even know what caused Bruschi’s stroke? It is a condition called a Patent Foramen Ovale. It’s a hole in between the two upper chambers of a person’s heart. It’s a heart condition that affects as many as 30% of the people in the world. Bruschi had surgery to correct the problem. The likelihood of it re-occuring is less likely than you winning the lottery.

So, your claim that Bruschi’s likelihood to contribute next year is as questionable as O’Callaghan’s is bogus. In fact, its pretty much garbage because you’ve based it on erroneous information.

Now, in comparison, its much more likely that 1) O'Callaghan will have another concussion and 2) That Post concussion syndrome is likely to end his career.

34. Yes - they are freak injuries and YES - you can't account for them. But do you think you ever recover from a serious injury 100%? If you don't think injuries of this magnitude won't manifest themselves again down the line you are crazy. Especially with 30+ yr old players.

Have you ever had an ACL Injury? I have. And, because of it, each doctor that I have seen has said that my ACL is actually STRONGER now than it was previously. So, Its much more likely that I’d break my foot than it would be to tear my ACL again.

Now, as for Rodney, You do realize that the knee injury he suffered was actually to his OTHER knee, not the one he was recovering from. You do also realize that his broken arm hasn’t re-occurred. Neither has Eugene Wilson’s. And Wilson's time missed wasn't because of his broken arm. But other injuries. Are you really saying that one you get injured you are, in general, much more likely to get injured? I really hope you aren't saying that.

35. I guess we watched different games last year.

Hawkins was woeful against better passing attacks. I think Le Kevin Smith could run faster to a hot dog truck than Hawkins could run down a TE running open in the secondary on turf.

I agree that Hawkins doesn’t have the speed to cover WRs. And he does take an occasional bad angle. I don’t want him as the starter this year, but he proved to be capable in BB’s eyes. That’s what matters.

 

[DaBruinz]

I agree with you competely. If they do draft an OT, it would be competition for Light and possible future replacement for him since he is getting older. I do still hope they go with a S with one of the first round picks. Thing is, nobody knows what will happen on draft day, not even BB and Pioli know who they'll draft until probably minutes before it actually happens. Just depends who is on the board at the time.

If the Pats were to draft Staley, yes it would be to put him at LT in the future. However, during his first year, he'd be going against Kaczur, Britt, O'Callaghan and Bubin for the RT position and the swing position that Kaczur had last year.

 

[DaBruinz]

The defense got tired not because they came back on the field, but because they were so bad they couldn;t get OFF the field

No defense ever got tired because the offense went three-and-out. A good defense forces the other team to also go three-and-out. Youk don't get tired by sitting on the bench for half the game.

Spacecrime, this is wrong on several levels. Every defense gets tired when they don't have a chance to get a rest. The Pats offense couldn't sustain a drive and allow the defense to catch a break in the 2nd half.

As I said in my original message and what you so conveniently ignored, was that it was only PART of the reason.

The defense gets tired when THEY cannot get off the field. How long a defense stays on the field for any one series has nothing to do with the offense. They can stay for two minutes or twenty. In the AFCCG, it was closer to twenty, but don't blame the OLine because we couldn't stop the Colts on third down.

I can blame the O-line for not getting the blocking needed so that Maroney couldn't get a 1st down to help run out the clock. I can blame the O-line for not giving Brady enough time to get through his reads properly.

As I said, and you ignored, it was only PART of the reason.

Mind taking a minute to explain how the RT having a history of concussions results in the defense allowing long, time-chewing drives?

Sure, as long as you go back and re-read my original post where I said that it was only PART of the reason we lost.

Spacecrime,. I am actually very surprised that a poster who is as intelligent as you seem to be insists on looking at the situation in a vacuum and not in the entirety of the game.

O'Callaghan was, by far, the Pats best RT last year. When he was in there, they had a lot of success running to his side of the field. After he got hurt, the success, even with Dillon, wasn't there. I don't know if it was because Kaczur was playing hurt or if Kaczur hit some kind of sophomore slump or what. But the truth is that our running game wasn't nearly as effective to the right side as it had been previously.

Later in the AFCCG, when we tried to run the ball with Maroney, the right side wasn’t getting any push at all. In fact, Reagor was in on top of them. That was with Kaczur blocking. O’Callaghan wasn’t healthy and he was the best run blocker the Pats had on the right side. Its unlikely that O’Callaghan would have folded the way that Kaczur did.

Because the Pats offense wasn’t able to sustain drives, the Pats defense didn’t get a chance to rest. That lack of a chance to rest made matters worse for the defense. Again, as I said, it was PART of the reason, not the whole reason. If you want to say that the offense going 3 and out had NOTHING to do with the Colts having 46 plays in the 2nd half, then so be it. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[DaBruinz]

i always liked o'call. never understood why he got benched because he looked REALLY good. maybe he wasnt ready, didnt know he playbook and stuff. i fully expect him to win the starting job at RT next season. kaczur just plain sucked. one game i remember, o'call dominated shaun ellis. next time we met the jets kaczur gets destroyed by ellis (we lost the game because kaczur gave up the sack + forced fumble in the last minute)

WOW. God forbid that a guy coming back from an injury not play 100%. Kaczur was coming back from a shoulder inury.

O'Callaghan didn't get benched. He was out with having had at least 2 concussions last year.

The Pats lost to the Jets for several reasons. If you think that Kaczur was the ONLY reason the Pats lost to the Jets you clearly didn't watch the Play-off game. OH, the play-off game was the on with Kaczur starting.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

The move wouldn't surprise me, the O-line isn't that great. I'm sure I'm not the only one that believes O'Callahan and Kazcur aren't anything special. The run blocking wasn't as bad as '05 but still needs improvement. Teams are loving Staley's athleticism, he ran a 4.79 40 yard dash, which is extremely fast for an O-lineman. I don't think he will last at 28, every team could use O-line. My take: if the LB, CB or S aren't there, take OT.

 

[jbb9s]

DaBruinz - some great comments! I love it.

Under your reasoning: Why did Ray Lewis get that MVP? It should have gone to Kyle Boller!

You said O'callahan may have to retire soon - I said ok, but so may Bruschi. We are talking about depth. I am talking about openings in the roster in 08 and beyond.

 

[Pats726]

We may grab a linemen at some point...but unless one falls and is of value it will be layer rather than early..12 OL now...so unless one is really a cut above, I really do not see an early pick going in that direction.

 

[DaBruinz]

DaBruinz - some great comments! I love it.

Under your reasoning: Why did Ray Lewis get that MVP? It should have gone to Kyle Boller!

Why would the SB MVP that Lewis got have gone to Boller? BOLLER wasn't in the NFL at the time. If you are refering to Trent Dilfer, then the reason that Lewis got it was because Dilfer did enough to keep the Ravens from losing.

You said O'callahan may have to retire soon - I said ok, but so may Bruschi.

You need to re-read my statement. No where did I say that O'Callaghan may retire soon. I said that its much more likely that O'Callaghan will suffer another concussion and that PostConcussion Syndrome would end O'Callaghan's career.

Also, you implied that Bruschi would have to retire because of a heart attack like he had previously. You were corrected in that Bruschi did not have a heart attack, but he had a stroke. And that the stroke was caused by a hole in his heart. A hole that was repaired successfully and, by all accounts, will not threaten him again.

We are talking about depth. I am talking about openings in the roster in 08 and beyond.

I will be honest, you keep throwing out so much misinformation, that I honestly don't know what you think to be talking about.

1) Many people have acknowledged that OT is a weak link on the offense. Yes, some of it comes from Kaczur and Light returning from injuries last year. Light recovered his level of play much more quickly than Kaczur. People are worried about O'Callaghan's long term potential because he had at least 2 major concussions year. So, yes, people believe that Staley could come in and give Kaczur, O'Callaghan, Bubin and Britt a run for their money.

2) Linebacker has been an acknowledged issue by everyone and their brother. I stated that I felt the Pats would bring in 3 new LBs this year via the draft or free agency. They've brought in 1, so far, and let 1 go.

3) Other areas that people have mentioned as need areas include corner back and defensive back. Some people have also said running back as a minor need. Someone to groom behind Faulk as the new 3rd down back.

4) The Pats obviously felt that the OFFENSE was an issue in the AFCCG because of many of their off-season acquistions. Morris, Brady, Stallworth, Welker, Washington. Will Morris and Brady can be used to off-set the losses of Dillon and Graham, Welker, Stallworth and Washington were clearly brought in to help the offensive unit improve.

 

[DaBruinz]

We may grab a linemen at some point...but unless one falls and is of value it will be layer rather than early..12 OL now...so unless one is really a cut above, I really do not see an early pick going in that direction.

Mruczkowski is almost sure to be cut. Same with Bubin unless he shows a lot of improvement over Britt. Britt is no sure thing either, having gotten beaten out by O'Callaghan last year and then Kaczur when Kaczur got healthy. I could see the Pats taking Staley easily because I believe he is significantly better than Britt and Bubin and could definitely push O'Callaghan and Kaczur for the starting RT job. He could even push Light for the starting LT position, though I think it would take him a year to get to that point.

 

[jefmblrd]

I'd love to see them draft a solid DB in the first round, but if they could get a great OL, I'd be happy with that as well.

 

[theONLYJerseypatsfan]

***BZZZZT***

Hawkins and Sanders last year were servicable. Nothing great at all.

Hawkins lack of speed forced LB's to cover the slot reciever while Sanders was dropping back playing zone in case of deep outs to Harrison or Wayne.

There was a perfect video showing this online a while ago.

If you look back at the San Diego playoff game Hawkins and Sanders i believe contributed for all by 1 of the sacks on Rivers (Nothing is better than a BB designed safety blitz)

Every team has an area that they like having the most depth on....for our team its O-line and tight ends.......

 

[Pats726]

Mruczkowski is almost sure to be cut. Same with Bubin unless he shows a lot of improvement over Britt. Britt is no sure thing either, having gotten beaten out by O'Callaghan last year and then Kaczur when Kaczur got healthy. I could see the Pats taking Staley easily because I believe he is significantly better than Britt and Bubin and could definitely push O'Callaghan and Kaczur for the starting RT job. He could even push Light for the starting LT position, though I think it would take him a year to get to that point.

I don't disagree about him being a nice pick..BUT I also think that would depend on where they rank the young tackles that they have..THAT is most important..as well as their eval of Staley. They have young talent, but to improve is always the Patriots way of doing things... No 2nd rounder..would they take higher up?? Or might he fall to 3rd round?? Many variables...I leave it up to the coaches to see where and what they need to do. I do not see where you really disagree..."so unless one is really a cut above, I really do not see an early pick going in that direction."...You think Staley is a cut above..and maybe the Pats will..but they MAY not. He may be one of the few early rounder OL that are in the running to be drafted by the Pats.