Starting Center

[Tunescribe]

I suspect that Belichick strongly disagrees.

So, you believe Belichick strongly disagrees that interior OL, DL and tight end should be addressed as priorities to improve upon this off-season. Please share why.

 

[Brady6]

We need a backup OT with the injury histories of Solder and Vollmer. Cannon has filled that role well.

Sure, we could sign a quality backup OT instead of a guard. I just don't see Belichick doing that. Tackles capable of starting are relatively expensive. And it is likely that our backup OT will need to start at least a couple of game.

We are set at OT until next year when Cannon's contract runs out. We should draft an OT for depth.

Cannon is the starting guard on message board teams. Belichick seems to feel differently. I'm sure that Cannon will be given the opportunity to compete in camp for a starting job. That is always the case.

CONCLUSION
We need to bring in at least one free agent and a draftee. The question is at what position. My conclusion is that we should be bringing in free guards and centers, and even a JAG OT as our 4th OT if one is out there.

Draft Joel Bitonio from Nevada, he offers depth at tackle and guard.

I do not think Belichick feels different, I think that Cannon had the right guard job early on and then suffered an injury; Connolly returned around that same time and regained his starting job. Belichick may not have seen him as needed to be used at guard while Connolly was able to play the position, but if Wendell is gone and they slide Connolly to center than Belichick is very likely to feel differently.

In addition, Cannon proved himself capable over the final 8 weeks of last season. Why would we invest money in a UFA or an early draft pick into that position when we very well could have the answer? Cannon was an early round talent that slipped due to a battle with cancer, he has improved each year he has been in the NFL both on the field and in the gym losing significant weight and improving as an athlete.

If we do not give Cannon a shot at right guard, I firmly believe it will be regrettable; he has the tools to be special like an Akiem Hicks.

 

[mgteich]

We shall see what Belichick thinks.

Under your scenario, we have ZERO need to sign any offensive linemen in free agency. After all, according to you (and others), we can upgrade the OL by simply moving players around and drafting a backup OT/OG. We already have a backup LG who can start in Kline. We have developmental centers in Cave and Barker.

Surely, we need no free agent additions. Surely, we won't see Belichick paying $2M a year on a free agent backup lineman.

And just BTW, I would call your approach the "blow up the OL" approach. Even if Cannon is huge success, he'll probably look for money in free agency. And you (through other posts) have already cut Mankins after the season. All we would have left is two tackles and some developmental players.
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Draft Joel Bitonio from Nevada, he offers depth at tackle and guard.

I do not think Belichick feels different, I think that Cannon had the right guard job early on and then suffered an injury; Connolly returned around that same time and regained his starting job. Belichick may not have seen him as needed to be used at guard while Connolly was able to play the position, but if Wendell is gone and they slide Connolly to center than Belichick is very likely to feel differently.

In addition, Cannon proved himself capable over the final 8 weeks of last season. Why would we invest money in a UFA or an early draft pick into that position when we very well could have the answer? Cannon was an early round talent that slipped due to a battle with cancer, he has improved each year he has been in the NFL both on the field and in the gym losing significant weight and improving as an athlete.

If we do not give Cannon a shot at right guard, I firmly believe it will be regrettable; he has the tools to be special like an Akiem Hicks.

 

[Brady6]

The Patriots have no greater need than shoring up the interior OL. After that DL, then tight end.

I agree they need to begin rebuilding the entire interior line.

LG – Mankins has 1-2 more solid years of football so we need an heir apparent in place.
OC – We need a long-term solution, even if Connolly plays there temporarily he is not the answer, I would draft Marcus Martin at #62.
RG – If Connolly moves to OC than that leaves this as immediate hole, I personally believe Marcus Cannon can be the answer here, others disagree, but either way they should look to draft a player like Joel Bitonio who reminds me of Mankins. He can backup and act as the heir apparent to Mankins long term.

In addition, I would look to bring in a player like Eben Britton who was a promising young player with versatility prior to getting Jaguared.

I do not think Belichick will target a defensive tackle early (unless by some prayer Donald slipped). I think he will attempt to squeeze one more solid season out of Wilfork and Kelly, and also hope that Armstead emerges as a long term answer at 3-Tech.

 

[mgteich]

I agree that we need to develop the interior of the offensive line. Of course, depending on the draft for our TE, DT help, SS help, future starting OG's (we need two), and future starting center is a bit much for me to expect.

I agree they need to begin rebuilding the entire interior line.

LG – Mankins has 1-2 more solid years of football so we need an heir apparent in place.
OC – We need a long-term solution, even if Connolly plays there temporarily he is not the answer, I would draft Marcus Martin at #62.
RG – If Connolly moves to OC than that leaves this as immediate hole, I personally believe Marcus Cannon can be the answer here, others disagree, but either way they should look to draft a player like Joel Bitonio who reminds me of Mankins. He can backup and act as the heir apparent to Mankins long term.

In addition, I would look to bring in a player like Eben Britton who was a promising young player with versatility prior to getting Jaguared.

I do not think Belichick will target a defensive tackle early (unless by some prayer Donald slipped). I think he will attempt to squeeze one more solid season out of Wilfork and Kelly, and also hope that Armstead emerges as a long term answer at 3-Tech.

 

[Brady6]

We shall see what Belichick thinks.

Under your scenario, we have ZERO need to sign any offensive linemen in free agency. After all, according to you (and others), we can upgrade the OL by simply moving players around and drafting a backup OT/OG. We already have a backup LG who can start in Kline. We have developmental centers in Cave and Barker.

Surely, we need no free agent additions. Surely, we won't see Belichick paying $2M a year on a free agent backup lineman.

And just BTW, I would call your approach the "blow up the OL" approach. Even if Cannon is huge success, he'll probably look for money in free agency. And you (through other posts) have already cut Mankins after the season. All we would have left is two tackles and some developmental players.
=======

I think you have me mixed up with another poster, I have never cut Mankins next season, and I would not cut him until 2016 if ever. He would hit the cap at $4M if cut in 2015, that is a waste of money for a player likely to still be productive. I actually extended Mankins by one season in a post not too long ago when we were discussion freeing up cap space. So it definitely was not me.

I do think we need to sign a player in UFA, I laid out a more complete plan in my last post in here, have a look and let me know what you think.

Also I am not opposed to signing Smith, I just do think I would elect him the starter when he is an average NFL lineman and Cannon has the type of talent to be a pro bowl lineman.

 

[mgteich]

I apologize for mischaracterizing your position on Mankins.

I thought that you were one of those who understood that paying Mankins a $7M salary in 2015 represents a decision point for the patriots, much as paying Wilfork $8M this year represents a decision point.

The idea of paying Mankins $7M of new money because $4M of his bonus money will hit the books is a strange one.

I think you have me mixed up with another poster, I have never cut Mankins next season, and I would not cut him until 2016 if ever. He would hit the cap at $4M if cut in 2015, that is a waste of money for a player likely to still be productive. I actually extended Mankins by one season in a post not too long ago when we were discussion freeing up cap space. So it definitely was not me.

I do think we need to sign a player in UFA, I laid out a more complete plan in my last post in here, have a look and let me know what you think.

Also I am not opposed to signing Smith, I just do think I would elect him the starter when he is an average NFL lineman and Cannon has the type of talent to be a pro bowl lineman.

 

[jmt57]

Isn't Larson a FA? he's be good depth at least.

Ted Larsen signed with Arizona, but I'm glad the Patriots did not re-sign him. In the last few seasons he has been handed a starting position more than once due to an injury, and every time he played his way back on to the bench.

Larsen had a good rookie season with Tampa Bay after the Patriots cut him, starting at LG due to an injury and playing well enough to keep that job even when the former starter he replaced was healthy. But early in 2011 he didn't show anything against the run and made a couple of critical whiffs in pass protection, resulting in his first benching. In 2012 Larsen took over at RG due to an injury to Davin Joseph, but lost that starting position due to poor play to Jamon Meredith; Larsen had improved in pass protection but struggled in the running game. Last year Larsen took over at center but after three shotgun snaps were off target against Carolina he was back on the bench; he was also spent some time at right tackle but was overmatched there.


I really wanted Larsen to succeed - he attended the same high school as my daughters, you always pull for the local guy - but I think there are better options, even just for backup depth.

 

[varjao]

Brady needs a stone wall in front of him.

 

[meatface]

I think I would rather cut Connolly and save the $3 million and resign Wendell to a 1 year low cost deal and draft a center. Wendell was very good in 2012 and if he cannot be serviceable then they have a rookie waiting in the wings.

 

[JackBauer]

I think I would rather cut Connolly and save the $3 million and resign Wendell to a 1 year low cost deal and draft a center. Wendell was very good in 2012 and if he cannot be serviceable then they have a rookie waiting in the wings.

No way they even risk having to start Wendell at OC this season.

 

[varjao]

No more Wendell at center please, I'd rather have him playing WR

 

[dex13]

The Patriots have no greater need than shoring up the interior OL. After that DL, then tight end.

completely agree with this. Brady gets pressured a lot and an upgraded O-line will definitely help with the passing game much more than a big name wide receiver.

It helps with the running game making Brady's play-action more lethal. It also would allow the WR's more time to get open. Brady will find the open man if given the time and this would compensate for not having that WR who can "get open no matter what".

Also, Scags isn't around anymore. That is what concerns me the most.

 

[jmt57]

There's not really a whole lot available in free agency at center that would be an upgrade other than New Orleans' Brian De La Puente or Green Bay's Evan Dietrich-Smith. The other option would be mayoclinic's plan to give Alex Mack an offer that Cleveland won't match, but that may be tough to pull off.

There's the draft, but do we want use an early pick on a center with the other positions that need to be addressed? If that's the plan, do we start a Marcus Martin, Weston Richburg or Travis Swanson from day one protecting Brady and calling out the signals, or give him time to develop and start the season with Connolly at center?

Wendell needs to be replaced, no doubt. I'm just not sure if the answer is one of those veteran free agents, a draft pick, or sliding Connolly over.

 

[Username]

Please excuse my absolute ignorance of all cap/financial related matters but is there any viable way that we can make an offer for Alex Mack that Cleveland won't match, now that Wilfork is going to free up some dollars?

 

[JMC00]

Please excuse my absolute ignorance of all cap/financial related matters but is there any viable way that we can make an offer for Alex Mack that Cleveland won't match, now that Wilfork is going to free up some dollars?

I'm sure there is a way. Mack's agent has even gone on record as saying he can craft the contract that would be tough for the Browns to match.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Phil Costa.

(No. Please no)

 

[dex13]

I'm sure there is a way. Mack's agent has even gone on record as saying he can craft the contract that would be tough for the Browns to match.

probably just has to put something about a huge bonus or guaranteed contact if the team doesn't make the playoffs. Now that would be an interesting legal question since 12 teams make the playoffs each season, would it be considered a poison pill?

 

[jmt57]

Please excuse my absolute ignorance of all cap/financial related matters but is there any viable way that we can make an offer for Alex Mack that Cleveland won't match, now that Wilfork is going to free up some dollars?

For the Patriots it would probably need to be something with a relatively low cap hit this year, with bigger numbers after that, with enough guaranteed that Cleveland would not want to match it. As of right now the Browns only have Mack for 2014 so if it gets to that point they may want to work out a trade, like the Pats did with Miami for Welker several years ago.

Cleveland has plenty of cap space - $42 million - but they also have a ton of holes on their roster that need to be filled or upgraded. With that in mind they may not want to match a big money long term contract on an offensive lineman, and instead spread that money throughout their whole roster as they attempt to rebuild.

 

[dex13]

For the Patriots it would probably need to be something with a relatively low cap hit this year, with bigger numbers after that, with enough guaranteed that Cleveland would not want to match it. As of right now the Browns only have Mack for 2014 so if it gets to that point they may want to work out a trade, like the Pats did with Miami for Welker several years ago.

Cleveland has plenty of cap space - $42 million - but they also have a ton of holes on their roster that need to be filled or upgraded. With that in mind they may not want to match a big money long term contract on an offensive lineman, and instead spread that money throughout their whole roster as they attempt to rebuild.

yeah but would any team WANT to give big money long term to an OL?