2014 Draft Prospect Thread

[ashley]

Right now I'd say that the 3 DTs (Donald, Jernigan and Hageman), Pryor, and Trent Murphy would be my guys worth taking at 29 on defense. I'm hoping at least one of those 5 is on the board at 29. Eric Ebron is the only guy I would consider on offense (unless Greg Robinson punches a cop or gets a box of weed from BB the weekend before the draft ). One of the LBs like Christian Jones or Kyle Van Noy could also get consideration, but not right now.

I watched Hageman for the first time this weekend and I was really impressed with him. His size would be a great fit!!! I am intrigued with Donald though, he looked so dominate at the senior bowl. I think all three would be great additions. I am hoping Murphy can last to the second round, I really like him...imagine a first round pick of either Pryor, Ealy or Hageman and a second round pick of Murphy and follow that with the 3rd round pick of Niklas or Fierdorwicz...that would be amazing....well a girl can dream anyway lol

The three positions I am really looking forward to at the combine are safety, defensive line and tight end. I think we can get some upgrades from the draft at those positions.

 

[mayoclinic]

I watched Hageman for the first time this weekend and I was really impressed with him. His size would be a great fit!!! I am intrigued with Donald though, he looked so dominate at the senior bowl. I think all three would be great additions. I am hoping Murphy can last to the second round, I really like him...imagine a first round pick of either Pryor, Ealy or Hageman and a second round pick of Murphy and follow that with the 3rd round pick of Niklas or Fierdorwicz...that would be amazing....well a girl can dream anyway lol

The three positions I am really looking forward to at the combine are safety, defensive line and tight end. I think we can get some upgrades from the draft at those positions.

I'm very content to have one of Donald/Jernigan/Hageman fall to 29. Louis Nix would be in the mix, too, though his weight and knee issues is a concern, as Grid has noted in his profile. Hageman has the most versatility and athleticism, Donald has the most productivity and the best motor as well as freakish quickness, and Jernigan is somewhat in-between.

The HuddleReport (a pay for access site) just updated their top 200 list. It's interesting to compare their list to NFL DraftScout's. They have Ra'Shede Hageman at 22, Timmy Jernigan at 23, Calvin Pryor at 25, Trent Murphy at 33 and Aaron Donald at 36 (and Kyle Van Noy at 35, FWIW). 6 guys (including Van Ny) all clustered in an interesting range, only 14 places separating them. NFL DraftScout's responding rankings are Donald 22, Jernigan 23, Hageman 26, Pryor 28, Van Noy 38 and Murphy 43 - all clustered within 21 places.

 

[ashley]

I'm very content to have one of Donald/Jernigan/Hageman fall to 29. Louis Nix would be in the mix, too, though his weight and knee issues is a concern, as Grid has noted in his profile. Hageman has the most versatility and athleticism, Donald has the most productivity and the best motor as well as freakish quickness, and Jernigan is somewhat in-between.

The HuddleReport (a pay for access site) just updated their top 200 list. It's interesting to compare their list to NFL DraftScout's. They have Ra'Shede Hageman at 22, Timmy Jernigan at 23, Calvin Pryor at 25, Trent Murphy at 33 and Aaron Donald at 36 (and Kyle Van Noy at 35, FWIW). 6 guys (including Van Ny) all clustered in an interesting range, only 14 places separating them. NFL DraftScout's responding rankings are Donald 22, Jernigan 23, Hageman 26, Pryor 28, Van Noy 38 and Murphy 43 - all clustered within 21 places.

Some great info Mayo, thanks!!!!

 

[patsfaninpa]

I'm very content to have one of Donald/Jernigan/Hageman fall to 29. Louis Nix would be in the mix, too, though his weight and knee issues is a concern, as Grid has noted in his profile. Hageman has the most versatility and athleticism, Donald has the most productivity and the best motor as well as freakish quickness, and Jernigan is somewhat in-between.

The HuddleReport (a pay for access site) just updated their top 200 list. It's interesting to compare their list to NFL DraftScout's. They have Ra'Shede Hageman at 22, Timmy Jernigan at 23, Calvin Pryor at 25, Trent Murphy at 33 and Aaron Donald at 36 (and Kyle Van Noy at 35, FWIW). 6 guys (including Van Ny) all clustered in an interesting range, only 14 places separating them. NFL DraftScout's responding rankings are Donald 22, Jernigan 23, Hageman 26, Pryor 28, Van Noy 38 and Murphy 43 - all clustered within 21 places.

Do you see Tuitt as a de or dt? Or, just not like him at 29. I think he can develop into a pretty good interior pass-rusher. He's 300lb and has a big arse. I don't project him as a 4-3 de. Could play 3-4 de. But, for our scheme a 4-3 dt would be a good fit IMO. I'd take Donald and Jernigan ahead of him. Not sure about Hageman.

 

[mayoclinic]

Do you see Tuitt as a de or dt? Or, just not like him at 29. I think he can develop into a pretty good interior pass-rusher. He's 300lb and has a big arse. I don't project him as a 4-3 de. Could play 3-4 de. But, for our scheme a 4-3 dt would be a good fit IMO. I'd take Donald and Jernigan ahead of him. Not sure about Hageman.

I see him as a bit of both; he can probably play 4-3 LDE in an under scheme. I'm not sure he's someone I'd take at 29, but I'm sure the Pats will take a hard look at him. Depending on how the draft falls, trading back and taking him could be an option. I think Brent Urban offers a similar skill set at cheaper cost.

 

[Coach42]

I have been trying to talk myself out of Donald for awhile. Just last night, while the board was down, I was watching Donald highlights and got to the point where I said eff it. I'm all in on Donald. I came here today thinking I would have to do battle to get others on board only to find I might be the last one on the bandwagon lol.

His tape screams all pro to me and I can't ignore it anymore!

 

[manxman2601]

I see him as a bit of both; he can probably play 4-3 LDE in an under scheme. I'm not sure he's someone I'd take at 29, but I'm sure the Pats will take a hard look at him. Depending on how the draft falls, trading back and taking him could be an option. I think Brent Urban offers a similar skill set at cheaper cost.

Sorry but I don't see that at all. I think Tuitt and Urban are worlds apart.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

I see him as a bit of both; he can probably play 4-3 LDE in an under scheme. I'm not sure he's someone I'd take at 29, but I'm sure the Pats will take a hard look at him. Depending on how the draft falls, trading back and taking him could be an option. I think Brent Urban offers a similar skill set at cheaper cost.

Haven't seen Urban play, but this is exactly where I'm at on Tuitt.

 

[mayoclinic]

Sorry but I don't see that at all. I think Tuitt and Urban are worlds apart.

In what way? Ability or style?

Personally, I like Urban better than Tuitt. Tuitt scares me. And Grid pretty much verbalized all of what I don't like about Tuitt, giving him a 4th/5th round grade:

Power. Mediocre. Whether we're talking about the 300 Pound physical specimen from the 2012 Tape, or the hefty 320 Pounder from the 2013 Tape, Tuitt exhibits impressive upper body Strength, but a pronounced lack of Core Power, which is of course far more crucial to success. Whether Anchoring against the Run or pushing against the Pass, Stephon Tuitt displayed a disappointingly consistent inability either to reject Power or to project Power.

Agility. Mediocre. He looks good, coiled up before the Snap, but immediately pops straight up at an alarming rate. He plays Too High Too Often, which suggests either bad form or a considerable lack of Core Agility or Fluidity. Observing him attempt to redirect quickly enough to impact Plays strongly suggests that it's the latter. As most Agility generally derives from Core Agility, it is no great surprise that his Lateral Velocity is lacking, and his Launch Velocity is deficient.

Mechanics. Mediocre. Flashes Paw Power or active Hands, but his performance is spotty and raw.

Brains. Deficient. Often the last man Off the Snap, and exhibits poor Field Vision. Good Motor, though.

Category: Stephon Tuitt -

The kicker in all of this is that Tuitt's 2012 film was much better, and his sports hernia injury could have had a huge impact on 2013. But he was clearly overweight and out of shape, and the 2013 season raises issues about his conditioning and motor, and reduced athleticism exposed his technique. I don't know if I'd go as far as to call him a 4th/5th round prospect, but I don't think I'd consider him before the late 2nd round. I'd rather get Brent Urban in the 4th round anyway. And I'd take Trent Murphy over Tuitt in a nanosecond.

So no, I don't include Tuitt in the Jernigan/Hageman/Donald mix. Aaron Donald at 288# has exceptional core power. Stephon Tuitt at 322# has mass. All the other things Donald has in spades - exceptional anticipation, field vision, explosiveness off the snap, and hand technique - Tuitt lacks.

I'll be thrilled if someone takes Tuitt with a 1st and bumps someone else down to us.

 

[manxman2601]

In what way? Ability or style?

Personally, I like Urban better than Tuitt. Tuitt scares me. And Grid pretty much verbalized all of what I don't like about Tuitt, giving him a 4th/5th round grade:



Category: Stephon Tuitt -

The kicker in all of this is that Tuitt's 2012 film was much better, and his sports hernia injury could have had a huge impact on 2013. But he was clearly overweight and out of shape, and the 2013 season raises issues about his conditioning and motor, and reduced athleticism exposed his technique. I don't know if I'd go as far as to call him a 4th/5th round prospect, but I don't think I'd consider him before the late 2nd round. I'd rather get Brent Urban in the 4th round anyway. And I'd take Trent Murphy over Tuitt in a nanosecond.

So no, I don't include Tuitt in the Jernigan/Hageman/Donald mix. Aaron Donald at 288# has exceptional core power. Stephon Tuitt at 322# has mass. All the other things Donald has in spades - exceptional anticipation, field vision, explosiveness off the snap, and hand technique - Tuitt lacks.

I'll be thrilled if someone takes Tuitt with a 1st and bumps someone else down to us.

If you and Grid are giving Tuitt a 4/5 round grade then I have nothing to say except that everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

In what way? Ability or style?

Personally, I like Urban better than Tuitt. Tuitt scares me. And Grid pretty much verbalized all of what I don't like about Tuitt, giving him a 4th/5th round grade:



Category: Stephon Tuitt -

The kicker in all of this is that Tuitt's 2012 film was much better, and his sports hernia injury could have had a huge impact on 2013. But he was clearly overweight and out of shape, and the 2013 season raises issues about his conditioning and motor, and reduced athleticism exposed his technique. I don't know if I'd go as far as to call him a 4th/5th round prospect, but I don't think I'd consider him before the late 2nd round. I'd rather get Brent Urban in the 4th round anyway. And I'd take Trent Murphy over Tuitt in a nanosecond.

So no, I don't include Tuitt in the Jernigan/Hageman/Donald mix. Aaron Donald at 288# has exceptional core power. Stephon Tuitt at 322# has mass. All the other things Donald has in spades - exceptional anticipation, field vision, explosiveness off the snap, and hand technique - Tuitt lacks.

I'll be thrilled if someone takes Tuitt with a 1st and bumps someone else down to us.

I didn't know about the sports hernia. When did that happen?

 

[mayoclinic]

If you and Grid are giving Tuitt a 4/5 round grade then I have nothing to say except that everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Well, I did specifically say in my post above:

I don't know if I'd go as far as to call him a 4th/5th round prospect, but I don't think I'd consider him before the late 2nd round.

I agree with Grid's overall assessment, but I'm not quite as harsh in my overall grade.

 

[everlong]

Tuitt reminds me of Ty Warren. Not the Ty most people will think of at his peak but the raw prospect. Like Warren he's not overly athletic but does have good power and uses leverage well. I think he's best suited as a 3-4 LDE and a run stopper. Ty was a first in 2003 but that was a different type of football. I think he's probably a 3rd rounder.

 

[Off The Grid]

Yeah, I don't see anyone anywhere grading'm as harshly as I do, so an explanation is warranted: When you strip away the Fighting Irish Pedigree, I see a raw, unrefined Athlete with undeveloped FootBall skills and dubious Athleticism. I consider'm a Project, and the devolution of'is Health in the wake of his Hernia Surgery casts doubt, in my eyes, on'is Dedication Level. But as noted: If he shows up at the Combine and looks healthy, rocked up, motivated, and explosive, I'll attenuate my Evaluation accordingly.

 

[mayoclinic]

On another note, Grid seems to feel that Ra'Shede Hageman is much better suited to 3-4 DE than to DT because of his height. While I understand the "leverage" issue, there have been some successful DTs in the 6'5"+ range - John Henderson, Kevin Williams and Michael Brockers come to mind.

 

[everlong]

On another note, Grid seems to feel that Ra'Shede Hageman is much better suited to 3-4 DE than to DT because of his height. While I understand the "leverage" issue, there have been some successful DTs in the 6'5"+ range - John Henderson, Kevin Williams and Michael Brockers come to mind.

Hageman probably is a natural 3-4 DE but he can get leverage and exploade up a gap. He's not doing it the way Donlad his with that first step burst but more of a combination of power and then speed.

 

[Snake Eyes]

On another note, Grid seems to feel that Ra'Shede Hageman is much better suited to 3-4 DE than to DT because of his height. While I understand the "leverage" issue, there have been some successful DTs in the 6'5"+ range - John Henderson, Kevin Williams and Michael Brockers come to mind.

From his frame alone I think Hageman can play DT or 3-4DE, I wouldn't worry about his height, Richard Seymour played plenty of 4-3 DT in addition to 3-4 DE and he was 6'6.

The thing that bothers me about Hageman is that he has very poor fundamental according to Mackenzie, this would help explain why he disappears in games for long stretches, he goes up against an O-lineman who has superior technique and neutralizes Hageman's athleticism. It's pretty common that someone with incredible athleticism has poor fundamentals and technique because they never struggle which requires that improvement.

Their athleticism becomes a crutch. At the senior bowl Weston Richburg held his own quite well against Hageman, what does that say when a 3rd round O-lineman prospect neutralizes a 1st round D-line prospect?

Working on technique, especially when you're bad at it, isn't very fun, in fact it's quite frustrating. People don't like that, they prefer to work on things they're already good at. There's a Russian tennis school which has been cranking out top tennis players, and one thing many people would find odd is that the children do not play against one another for the first 3 years they're enrolled, they just train basic drills over and over, and often super slowly, with perfect form. Basically they're not allowed to advance to active competition unless their form is fantastic. When people are focused on winning they stop paying attention to their form because they're concerned with the task at hand.

Spartak Tennis Club, Moscow, Russia « The Talent Code

So, for me it's kinda the Tebow effect, a bunch of bad habit get so deeply ingrained that you can't get them out, this is one of the reasons I think it'd be a great idea to scout the top athletic heavyweight college wrestlers and groom them to be Linemen.

So, that's my rant on the bust risk with Hageman, but he seems like far more of a BB player than Donald. Is it me or does BB not seem to care much about getting pressure on the QB?

 

[everlong]

Working on technique, especially when you're bad at it, isn't very fun, in fact it's quite frustrating. People don't like that, they prefer to work on things they're already good at. There's a Russian tennis school which has been cranking out top tennis players, and one thing many people would find odd is that the children do not play against one another for the first 3 years they're enrolled, they just train basic drills over and over, and often super slowly, with perfect form. Basically they're not allowed to advance to active competition unless their form is fantastic. When people are focused on winning they stop paying attention to their form because they're concerned with the task at hand.

Same thing with sports like soccer and swimming. The Germans will just pound the young soccer players with drills until they can do them in their sleep. A swimmer with perfect form can blow away somebody who's more athletic and in better cardio shape.

Good point.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Same thing with sports like soccer and swimming. The Germans will just pound the young soccer players with drills until they can do them in their sleep. A swimmer with perfect form can blow away somebody who's more athletic and in better cardio shape.

Good point.

It'd be interesting to do a study of an accomplished swimmer who gets by on incredible athleticism despite poor fundamentals, and they try to train them the right way.

 

[Off The Grid]

On another note, Grid seems to feel that Ra'Shede Hageman is much better suited to 3-4 DE than to DT because of his height. While I understand the "leverage" issue, there have been some successful DTs in the 6'5"+ range - John Henderson, Kevin Williams and Michael Brockers come to mind.

Absolutely, and I'm mindful of them and others, of course. But I would argue, nevertheless, that, as effective as they all were at Defensive Tackle ~ and I have no doubt that Hageman could be great, there ~ I feel that taller, lengthier Defensive Linemen would usually optimize their Skill Sets best at Defensive End.

That is provided they have sufficient WingSpan, mind you.