What is Thompkins's ceiling?

[nabwong]

It's weird. The days of the technician/route runner top WRs are gone. (excluding Wes, but he doesn't really run the entire route tree) All the elite ones are physical freaks/height/speed guys.

Calvin Johnson
Julio Jones
AJ Green
Demaryius Thomas
Brandon Marshall
Vincent Jackson
Dez Bryant

There is no Torry Holt, Chad Johnson, Marvin Harrison, etc. in the league right now.

Reggie wayne?
Greg Jennings?

If KT can be as productive as Branch, that'll be enough.

 

[Ozymandias]

It's weird. The days of the technician/route runner top WRs are gone. (excluding Wes, but he doesn't really run the entire route tree) All the elite ones are physical freaks/height/speed guys.

Calvin Johnson
Julio Jones
AJ Green
Demaryius Thomas
Brandon Marshall
Vincent Jackson
Dez Bryant

There is no Torry Holt, Chad Johnson, Marvin Harrison, etc. in the league right now.

Of the receivers you listed, A.J. Green doesn't belong there. His technique and route running are his bread and butter, along with his ball skills and body control, at least more so than any of the others listed.

Which makes sense, since he's the least "physical freak" out of all of those guys. He compensates for it by being the best of the best in terms of technique.

 

[Ozymandias]

Brady says he reminds him of Ocho Cinco. I'd have to agree.

Maybe in their appearance, but that's about where the comparison stops.

Chad was never as physical nor was he proficient at going over the middle and making contested catches in traffic. He's what you'd call a finesse receiver, who was at his best freelancing on the perimeter and needed a free release off the line to be most effective. He could be taken off his game by being beaten up at the LOS.

KT, on the other hand, has shown since day-one that he's a physical receiver, that isn't afraid to go over the middle, and take a hit, then pop right back up. Unlike, Chad, KT's physicality makes it very difficult to jam him at LOS. This is why he's good at winning his routes and gaining separation. Even though if his route-running and footwork aren't as refined as Chad's in his prime, KT knows how to out-leverage a defender to get open.

In terms of their playing styles, they're polar opposites.

 

[VrabelJr]

I don't think you watched early 2000s Chad Johnson.

The guy that works with KT for hours on end on a daily basis has said he reminds him a lot of Chad Johnson. What more will it take?

 

[Ozymandias]

I don't think you watched early 2000s Chad Johnson.

The guy that works with KT for hours on end on a daily basis has said he reminds him a lot of Chad Johnson. What more will it take?

Unlike you I have unbiased opinion about him. Chad was never a physical receiver and anyone that says otherwise clearly doesn't know the definition of what the term means.

As for your second point, you mean the Chad that couldn't even get on the field over scrubs like Deion Branch in 2011? Or learn the playbook? Or where to be when he needed to be? Then got cut in 2012 over the likes of Jabar Gaffney and the aforementioned Branch? That Chad? Because that's the only Chad that Tom ever played with.

So, it's silly to take such a statement at face-value when it's obvious it's meant to be an offhand comment. Appearance wise, you could make that claim and perhaps that's what Tom is referring too. Beyond that, how they play the receiver position is NOTHING alike.

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

He has an excellent skillset to be a number one receiver, and the drive especially being undrafted. Tremendous talent and hidden gem, and a great story.

 

[kennyb]

Seems like he drops a lot of balls. First pass to him in Atlanta he kind of lunged at it and then it hit him in the hands and he dropped it. He could have caught it in stride for a huge gain if he hadn't fought it. That part reminded me of Ben "frying pans for hands" Watson.

Smoothness wise he reminds me of Chad Johnson. I don't think he's big enough to be a true #1 WR but good enough.

 

[jah]

I think once he can get over rookie mistakes (mostly drops), he could easily be a star receiver in this league. I don't mean one of the physical freaks like Calvin Johnson, Randy Moss, AJ Green, Julio Jones, etc, but the next tier down.

Before anyone goes off calling me a homer, I'm not saying I expect it. But I could see it happening. He just seems to "get it" so far, except for the aforementioned rookie mistakes that will hopefully be ironed out.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Unlike you I have unbiased opinion about him. Chad was never a physical receiver and anyone that says otherwise clearly doesn't know the definition of what the term means.

As for your second point, you mean the Chad that couldn't even get on the field over scrubs like Deion Branch in 2011? Or learn the playbook? Or where to be when he needed to be? Then got cut in 2012 over the likes of Jabar Gaffney and the aforementioned Branch? That Chad? Because that's the only Chad that Tom ever played with.

So, it's silly to take such a statement at face-value when it's obvious it's meant to be an offhand comment. Appearance wise, you could make that claim and perhaps that's what Tom is referring too. Beyond that, how they play the receiver position is NOTHING alike.

Physically, Thompkins has a lot in common with Chad Johnson. This is evident to anyone who watched them both play, including Brady. Don't know why anyone would have a problem with this characterization, since he was a really good receiver for a lot of years. If Thompkins becomes anywhere there the player that Johnson was in his prime, he'll be a significant contributor to this offense.

Contrary to your take on him, he was actually pretty effective going over the middle, and was adept at beating press coverage. He was notoriously difficult to jam at the LOS.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: the post about 'technician' WRs who aren't size/speed freaks no longer being true #1s, someone should probably tell that to Randall Cobb, Antonio Brown, Greg Jennings, Reggie Wayne, Victor Cruz, Stevie Johnson, Michael Crabtree, and Cecil Shorts. Yeah, the top 4-5 guys are physical freaks, but historically that's usually been true.

To be a #1 receiver in the league, you have to have several different things that you do really, really, well. Size, speed, agility, hands, route-running, jumping, etc. etc. If you have a physical freak like Julio Jones, then the path is definitely easier, since you're starting with elite size, speed, and agility. If you're Megatron, it's almost impossible not to be a #1 out of the box, since you're starting with elite size, speed, agility, and leaping ability.

But take Antonio Brown, for instance. He doesn't have elite size, leaping ability, or speed. But he has great hands, runs excellent routes, reads coverages exceptionally well, is deceptively agile, and runs every route in the playbook. That makes him a very effective #1 receiver in the Steelers' offense.

 

[JackBauer]

Unlike you I have unbiased opinion about him.

Why is his opinion biased but yours isn't?

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Why is it in here when a new player on this team in just 4 games has a increase in production all of a sudden he is a superstar in the making but if another new player is sucking in those same 4 games he has not had enough time to improve?

 

[JackBauer]

Why is it in here when a new player on this team in just 4 games has a increase in production all of a sudden he is a superstar in the making but if another new player is sucking in those same 4 games he has not had enough time to improve?

Who are you talking about?

 

[SVN]

The challenge is going to increase for him now that he is beginning to show up in games and defenses are going to try and give him more respect.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Why is it in here when a new player on this team in just 4 games has a increase in production all of a sudden he is a superstar in the making but if another new player is sucking in those same 4 games he has not had enough time to improve?

Increase from what? Thompkins is a rookie, there's nothing prior to the last four games to compare to. When you're discussing a rookie, the past four games are all you have. There's no track record to point back to that establishes his baseline 'true' level of play. When you're talking about an 8-year veteran, if he's playing significantly above or below his standard level, then you can reasonably guess that he'll gravitate back to his mean.

 

[pazrul72]

i took the third option on the poll only because there wasn't a middle one between 2 and 3. There is a huge jump between being one of the top 15 WR's in the league and being a #2. I think 2004 Deion Branch is a perfect comparison talent and playmaking ability wise. Yes they play differently but that level, a poor mans #1 or an elite #2 sounds right. As a piece of the offense he will make big plays from time to time without being a household name. He'll have huge weeks matched up against a #2 corner but be shut down against #1 corners as Brady will go to the open man instead of him. Still pretty valuable and I'm glad we drafted him.

 

[woolster22]

Re: Re: What is Thompkins's ceiling?

i took the third option on the poll only because there wasn't a middle one between 2 and 3. There is a huge jump between being one of the top 15 WR's in the league and being a #2. I think 2004 Deion Branch is a perfect comparison talent and playmaking ability wise. Yes they play differently but that level, a poor mans #1 or an elite #2 sounds right. As a piece of the offense he will make big plays from time to time without being a household name. He'll have huge weeks matched up against a #2 corner but be shut down against #1 corners as Brady will go to the open man instead of him. Still pretty valuable and I'm glad we drafted him.

Udfa

Sorry to nitpick.

 

[PATRlOT]

I think its a bit too much to ask that he be able to put up 127yards each game though...especially with Gronk/Amendola coming back soon...edelmans production should drop abit with those two coming back as well

but anyways, what matters right now is his ceiling this season...and IMO I think he provides you more versatility than Brandon Lloyd would...he already is averaging 17.1 yards per catch so he gives you that deep threat and unlike Lloyd isn't afraid to take contact...

He better be tough as hell and unafraid to get hit. If he was dealing with gangs (therefore guns) and other street stuff as a teen, he sure as hell shouldn't be afraid to get hit with a helmet and shoulder pads on some grass.

 

[Ozymandias]

Physically, Thompkins has a lot in common with Chad Johnson. This is evident to anyone who watched them both play, including Brady. Don't know why anyone would have a problem with this characterization

That's been stated by myself in this thread, twice already. Why you felt the need to rehash it again is beyond me.

Contrary to your take on him, he was actually pretty effective going over the middle, and was adept at beating press coverage. He was notoriously difficult to jam at the LOS.

Not quite. The knock on him was consistent throughout his career. His opponents even noted extensively that he was scared to go over the middle because he wasn't a physical receiver. He played a finesse/speed style of a strict outside receiver. He rarely if ever lined up in the slot or made contested catches over the middle in traffic because that was never his forte.

Also, he was difficult to jam because of his footwork (his best asset), and his route running, not because he was a physical receiver. If you are blind to this watch the tape of the Wildcard game against the Jets in 2009. He could barely get off the LOS when the CB got in his grill. That's just one example and it has long been the scouting report on how to take him off his game. The reason why it was difficult to do this consistently was that in his prime he was a great deep threat so teams respected his speed way more than his physicality.

Y'all are in here acting like Chad Johnson was Terrell Owens or Hines Ward in their prime or something. The guy was as finesse as it gets. I'm done pointlessly arguing with people about worthless ghosts of the past. You can do so until you're blue in the face, but I couldn't care less.

KT is KT, that's all I care about. Who he reminds people of isn't going to make him perform better.

Why is his opinion biased but yours isn't?

Because unlike him I've actually made my claims based on factual evidence. If you guys want to say KT and Chad are physically similar that would be accurate (as I already stated twice), but if you're attempting to say their playing styles are the same, that would be a falsehood because they're not. KT has already demonstrated way more physicality in his short time here than I ever remember Chad showing.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

I'm cleary swimming against the current here but I voted #3 WR/depth guy. While he's filled in admirably and he's a good signing, I'd project his ceiling to be much higher if he were to consistently catch the ball cleanly with his hands.