If Manziel were available when the Pats pick

[Snake Eyes]

I don't agree with a high pick on Manziel, but I do agree with a higher pick on a quarterback. Brady is 36. I understand he wants to play past his 40's, but quarterbacks that can do that at a high level in the annals of NFL history are few and far between. Brady can still go, but the Pats should grab a quarterback for the future or they could be looking at a decade plus of futility like the Dolphins after Marino.

Plenty of teams have a decade or more of futility even after they draft the supposed ‘QB of the future’, Manziel has not demonstrated that his game translates to the NFL but he has demonstrated that he’s self-centered turd who talks smack about his school and does far too much partying for his own good.

Brady, OTOH, is a GOAT candidate, and he’s not showing signs of slowing down. He wants to play for years to come, If we spent those high picks drafting STUD O-linemen they could enable TFB to perform at a high level for longer. We’re still in a position to get developmental guys for cheap, we should continue that path. A bird in the hand…

 

[patsinthesnow]

Why would you spend such a high pick on a guy who is going to 1) sit on the bench, and 2) hasn't proven he can play in the NFL when you can get a good O-lineman who can help protect and lengthen the career of Brady, who has proven he can play in the NFL?

Rodgers was drafted when Favre was 35. Brady will be 37 next season.

While Kontra and I disagree on what QB we'd like to take high (Manziel vs. McCarron), we agree that it isn't early to draft a QB of the future.

Whether it's Manziel, McCarron, or whoever you fancy, sitting on the bench is a positive thing. Look at Rodgers for 3 years or Kaepernick getting a whole season on the bench.

How could you not love a 25 year old Manziel or a 27 year old McCarron being ready for us when Brady is a FA/retires at age 40, especially when they had 4 years to mature and learn the game from the best?

 

[Snake Eyes]

Rodgers was drafted when Favre was 35. Brady will be 37 next season.

While Kontra and I disagree on what QB we'd like to take high (Manziel vs. McCarron), we agree that it isn't early to draft a QB of the future.

Whether it's Manziel, McCarron, or whoever you fancy, sitting on the bench is a positive thing. Look at Rodgers for 3 years or Kaepernick getting a whole season on the bench.

How could you not love a 25 year old Manziel or a 27 year old McCarron being ready for us when Brady is a FA/retires at age 40, especially when they had 4 years to mature and learn the game from the best?

Ehhh, Rodgers is much more of an exception than a rule.

Keep in mind Favre was constantly waffling back and forth about retirement, the Packers had a lot more need to be cautious because of that, Brady has done the exact opposite, stating that there’s no need to draft an heir anytime soon. Next, Rodgers is spectacular, no one knew he’d be that awesome, if they did the 49ers would have drafted him #1 overall, we have no idea what Manziel or McCarron will become, and while I really like McCarron I think he goes in the 1st round because of the need for a franchise QB.

No one is addressing the opportunity cost of selecting one of these guys early: spending a 1st round pick on a QB means we can’t spend a 1st round pick on Ra’Shede Hegeman or some other stud who can help us win NOW rather than lower the likelihood of winning now in the hopes that it’ll help us win later.

 

[JerseyShore99]

I still say we pick up either Murray or McCarron and let them sit behind Brady until 2017 and then have them start, will be stars in NE and can learn a lot from the greatest

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Keep in mind Favre was constantly waffling back and forth about retirement,

Ah, yes, the

Favre
Annual
Retirement
Tango

 

[patsinthesnow]

Ehhh, Rodgers is much more of an exception than a rule.

Keep in mind Favre was constantly waffling back and forth about retirement, the Packers had a lot more need to be cautious because of that, Brady has done the exact opposite, stating that there’s no need to draft an heir anytime soon. Next, Rodgers is spectacular, no one knew he’d be that awesome, if they did the 49ers would have drafted him #1 overall, we have no idea what Manziel or McCarron will become, and while I really like McCarron I think he goes in the 1st round because of the need for a franchise QB.

No one is addressing the opportunity cost of selecting one of these guys early: spending a 1st round pick on a QB means we can’t spend a 1st round pick on Ra’Shede Hegeman or some other stud who can help us win NOW rather than lower the likelihood of winning now in the hopes that it’ll help us win later.

If that kid is truly a stud, he won't be at our pick. Von Miller, Aldon Smith, JJ Watt, you need premium draft capital to draft a stud D-linemen. (The super rare Atkins being the exception)

I just think this is the right year to get our QB to groom, not one of the 3rd round misfit toys (O'Connell, Mallett). The qb class is deep. As someone else pointed out, we're going to need to spend a high pick on a QB if we want a real Brady successor anytime soon.

1. Rodgers-Pick 25
2. P. Manning-Pick 1
3. Brees- Pick 33
4. Ryan-Pick 3
5. Big Ben- Pick 11
6. Eli- Pick 1
7. Flacco- Pick 18
8-10 Kap/RGIII/Luck-Pick 36, 2, 1

Exceptions: Wilson (pick 75), Schaub (pick 90), Brady (pick 199), Romo (undrafted)

As much as I want the next brady/warner, odds are very slim that will happen.

Hell, the Broncos spent a 2nd round pick on a QB last year when they signed Peyton to a 5 year deal.

 

[Snake Eyes]

If that kid is truly a stud, he won't be at our pick. Von Miller, Aldon Smith, JJ Watt, you need premium draft capital to draft a stud D-linemen. (The super rare Atkins being the exception)

I just think this is the right year to get our QB to groom, not one of the 3rd round misfit toys (O'Connell, Mallett). The qb class is deep. As someone else pointed out, we're going to need to spend a high pick on a QB if we want a real Brady successor anytime soon.

1. Rodgers-Pick 25
2. P. Manning-Pick 1
3. Brees- Pick 33
4. Ryan-Pick 3
5. Big Ben- Pick 11
6. Eli- Pick 1
7. Flacco- Pick 18
8-10 Kap/RGIII/Luck-Pick 36, 2, 1

Exceptions: Wilson (pick 75), Schaub (pick 90), Brady (pick 199), Romo (undrafted)

As much as I want the next brady/warner, odds are very slim that will happen.

Hell, the Broncos spent a 2nd round pick on a QB last year when they signed Peyton to a 5 year deal.

First off, Wilfork was a stud but he fell to us, and there’s also nothing preventing us from trading up if the value is there.

Next, how many early round picks have been busts? A ton of them, you don’t know they’ll be a successor to TFB, that’s not a sure thing, Brady IS a sure thing. If we get someone to enhance Brady, perhaps a stud interior O-lineman who can extend the shelf-life of that sure thing (Brady), or maybe a receiver to help the team truly utilize Brady’s potential.

Spending an early pick on Manziel/McCarron/whomever (QB sitting on the bench) means that pick isn’t spent on Colt Lyerla/Sammy Watkins/Zach Martin (player NOT sitting on the bench who can help us win).

The fact remains that you’d be weakening the team in the short term in the hopes that you’d strengthen it in the long term, trading a sure thing for something very not sure.

A bird in the hand…

 

[patsinthesnow]

First off, Wilfork was a stud but he fell to us, and there’s also nothing preventing us from trading up if the value is there.

Next, how many early round picks have been busts? A ton of them, you don’t know they’ll be a successor to TFB, that’s not a sure thing, Brady IS a sure thing. If we get someone to enhance Brady, perhaps a stud interior O-lineman who can extend the shelf-life of that sure thing (Brady), or maybe a receiver to help the team truly utilize Brady’s potential.

Spending an early pick on Manziel/McCarron/whomever (QB sitting on the bench) means that pick isn’t spent on Colt Lyerla/Sammy Watkins/Zach Martin (player NOT sitting on the bench who can help us win).

The fact remains that you’d be weakening the team in the short term in the hopes that you’d strengthen it in the long term, trading a sure thing for something very not sure.

A bird in the hand…

Ok I understand and respect your position. However, eventually we will have to weaken the team short term, unless you want the successor starting his rookie year.

 

[Wilfork#75]

I can see the need to draft a QB, but how high will depend solely on how much they like a particular guy. If there is someone they love and think is a franchise guy then they could take them early, but I don't see that guy in this draft (outside of Bridgewater). I think AJ McCarron would be a great fit but no earlier than the 3rd round, Aaron Murray could be another option. I particularly like Keith Price in the later rounds as a developmental guy and think he could be the next Russel Wilson. In the end I think there is a lot of potential but even more question marks with QB's in this draft. Behind Bridgewater it is going to be very interesting to see how it plays out and who steps up. I could see this being either a very strong or very weak QB class.

In terms of Manziel, no. Just no. Unless you know TB is going to retire very soon and you are willing to design an offense completely around him, Manziel makes no sense for this team. He cannot run the current Patriots system so he makes no sense as a backup or even a developmental guy. His entire game is built entirely around his legs, and not just his running game, his passing game too. Its his legs that give him time to throw in the pocket because defenses can't over-commit trying to get pressure so they generally just rush 4 and drop into coverage. This combined with a pretty good A&M O-line often gives him all the time in the world. It's when teams blitz that Manziel makes most of his yards running, but when they just sit back, rush 4 and drop into coverage he can struggle. I'm not convinced he can win games in the NFL from the pocket and that is absolutely necessary to winning in the NFL.

I think drafting him would have the same impact as signing Tebow. Unwanted media attention, poor system fit and his inability to run the system hurts the rest of the team because it brings the quality of practice down and wastes reps. I'm fine with looking for a more athletic developmental QB, but they have to be a pocket QB first and Manziel is not. I think we could see a lot of parallels in the NFL careers of Tebow and Manziel, the difference being I think Tebow is actually a good guy.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Ok I understand and respect your position. However, eventually we will have to weaken the team short term, unless you want the successor starting his rookie year.

Although it’s not ideal I’d be ok with a successor starting his rookie year, I’d also accept having a vet who is NOT a successor, as a stop-gap until there’s a player who’s worth pursuing.

Take Geno Smith for example, I don’t like him and don’t think he has what it takes to be a franchise QB, that being the case I would have tried to upgrade the O-line or grab a guy like Keenan Allen or Tank Carradine, who won’t help you this year but should be in a prime position to help you next year. Even if it means the team stinks in the short term it puts you in a better position when it matters, and it puts you in a better position to draft a QB like McCarron or Blake Bortles, both of whom I think have franchise QB potential.

I think the Colts did it exactly right with their Suck for Luck campaign, though I think they did it exactly wrong this past off-season by not stocking up on the O-line talent to protect him. Bad investment decisions are made when people feel as though they need to do something rather than simply being patient and taking the right opportunities when they’re there.

 

[manxman2601]

Watching the Ravens game tonight, I just had the sudden thought that Manziel might be a possibility for the Patriots, even in the first round. Josh McDaniels is a real spread offense guy and it just struck me that the quickness of Edelman and Amendola (along with Boyce and Vereen) could really benefit from Manziels' creativity.

I'm not saying it's my first choice or that this is the most likely option but if McDaniels has some sway then I certainly think it a possible one.

 

[Wilfork#75]

Watching the Ravens game tonight, I just had the sudden thought that Manziel might be a possibility for the Patriots, even in the first round. Josh McDaniels is a real spread offense guy and it just struck me that the quickness of Edelman and Amendola (along with Boyce and Vereen) could really benefit from Manziels' creativity.

I'm not saying it's my first choice or that this is the most likely option but if McDaniels has some sway then I certainly think it a possible one.

Do you really think a guy with an ego like Manziel would happily accept any role but as a QB? If it were just a similarly athletic guy then I could maybe see it (although the value would be horrendous for that type of player), but Manziel in particular I think there is no chance. He will want to be a QB and I wouldn't want to be the team that has to deal with him if they try and make him anything but that.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Do you really think a guy with an ego like Manziel would happily accept any role but as a QB? If it were just a similarly athletic guy then I could maybe see it (although the value would be horrendous for that type of player), but Manziel in particular I think there is no chance. He will want to be a QB and I wouldn't want to be the team that has to deal with him if they try and make him anything but that.

He's not suggesting Manziel change positions, just that JMCD might value his playmaking ability.

 

[JerseyShore99]

He's not suggesting Manziel change positions, just that JMCD might value his playmaking ability.

He's not looking to sit the bench until 2017, let NYJ take this problem before this is even an option

 

[Snake Eyes]

He's not looking to sit the bench until 2017, let NYJ take this problem before this is even an option

TFB wants to keep playing and winning, and with Manning breaking his record yesterday I'd think a few more logs have been thrown into that furnace. The best thing BB can do it make it fun for him, keep him stocked with weapons and protection so he's physically able to play and he enjoys it.

People stroke Manning but how many people talk about the protection and weapons he has, which are outstanding, Manning probabaly doesn't even need to wash his jersey after a game. Give that same treatment to TFB and we have our best chance of bringing home more trophies. An early pick we spend on Manziel is a pick that can't be used on on a WR/TE/OL.

 

[kennyb]

Manziel's creativity is when plays are broken and he's scrambling. Not sure if that'll work or for how long in the NFL. Couple dozen body slams from 250 pound linebackers and he'll slow down.

McDaniels likes the spread so he'll like a guy who improvises when the play breaks down? And Edelmen and Amendola...whatever, they'd be retired by the time he sees the field anyway.

Makes sense to win now with the few years Brady has left, not waste a 1st round pick on someone who sits on the bench for 3-4 years (probably unhappily) to prepare for when brady is gone (by which time his rookie deal would be up anyway).

 

[AzPatsFan]

Rogers was drafted when Favre was 35. Mallett was drafted when Brady was 34.

Resign Mallett. He has already undergone most of the Rogers pre-playing training, and proven that the pre-draft.BS rumors that slid him out of the First Round were entirely bogus.

If the Pats offer him a contract next year, escalating in 2017,and start making the transition to him in 2017, and even more in 2018, they might well keep him. Especially since the Pats team will be a young competitive SB entry for the next half a decade or more.

All this years noted QBs are rag armed shrimps or long gone before the Pats pick. Manziel and McCarron are Brian Hoyers at best.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Rogers was drafted when Favre was 35. Mallett was drafted when Brady was 34.

Resign Mallett. He has already undergone most of the Rogers pre-playing training, and proven that the pre-draft.BS rumors that slid him out of the First Round were entirely bogus.

If the Pats offer him a contract next year, escalating in 2017,and start making the transition to him in 2017, and even more in 2018, they might well keep him. Especially since the Pats team will be a young competitive SB entry for the next half a decade or more.

All this years noted QBs are rag armed shrimps or long gone before the Pats pick. Manziel and McCarron are Brian Hoyers at best.

Aaron Rodgers, purely on a skill level, is one of the best QBs ever. Mallett is no Aaron Rodgers.

 

[JerseyShore99]

Rogers was drafted when Favre was 35. Mallett was drafted when Brady was 34.

Resign Mallett. He has already undergone most of the Rogers pre-playing training, and proven that the pre-draft.BS rumors that slid him out of the First Round were entirely bogus.

If the Pats offer him a contract next year, escalating in 2017,and start making the transition to him in 2017, and even more in 2018, they might well keep him. Especially since the Pats team will be a young competitive SB entry for the next half a decade or more.

All this years noted QBs are rag armed shrimps or long gone before the Pats pick. Manziel and McCarron are Brian Hoyers at best.

No way he's resigned, he has too much interest from other teams he could finally start on

 

[CelticPatriot]

I've changed my mind to "no, he's a massive douche and I never want to see him play for the Pats"