Patriots 2013 Training Camp - Day 8, Saturday August 3

[West Philly Patriot]

Amendola, Dobson, Jenkins, Edelman, Boyce leaves Thompkins for the practice squad.
Gronk, Ballard, Fells, Hooman leaves Sudfeld there as well.

I could've sworn the above was your projection. There have been no games played, so what is this based on?

Just going from your post here it appears you have Jenkins in over Thompkins, when he has done nothing so far to distinguish himself. Hell, Aiken has looked more promising then Jenkins in their reports thus far.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I think the point is well taken...
Step 1: Get signed to the team
Step 2: Get healthy for camp, passing the conditioning test so to get ON the field
Step 3: Show you can play in the daily practices
Step 4: Show you can play in pre-season game competition, thus making the 53 or PS
Step 5: Show you can play in season NFL games against the best

We're at Step 3 with the rooks. Lots more to prove. Can't wait for Step 4.

 

[Brady6]

Patriots Training Camp Day 8

I agree with you. But I think teams have to play chess. For instance BB might like to have Jenkins here as insurance...which would be logical. And he might try to get Thompkins to the PS. Or they may just feel Thompkins is just either better now or has more upside even if he isnt.

It seems like since DA, JE, MS, and the picks are locks that leaves one spot for whomever is left. Cut Jenkins he is probably gone. Cut Thompkins there is a good chance he clears waivers. So, while I agree it should always be about the best 53 and value sometimes it is not always black and white.

I don't view Edelman or Slater as roster locks. Neither one does enough to merit that distinction.

Slater I view as 95% because as great a special teams players as he is if a player like Harmon, Ryan or another player can do what he does and contribute to the offense or defense it obviously makes sense to cut the one trick pony lose.

Edelman I view as 80% because he's been around 4 years, has always been inconsistent and injury prone, the fact he wasn't even as big a priority to resign as Cole in the offseason also speaks to how integral we saw him.

 

[Ive_Killed_People]

I think the point is well taken...
Step 1: Get signed to the team
Step 2: Get healthy for camp, passing the conditioning test so to get ON the field
Step 3: Show you can play in the daily practices
Step 4: Show you can play in pre-season game competition, thus making the 53 or PS
Step 5: Show you can play in season NFL games against the best

We're at Step 3 with the rooks. Lots more to prove. Can't wait for Step 4.

Step 4: Cut a hole in the box.

 

[Ring 6]

Patriots Training Camp Day 8

I could've sworn the above was your projection. There have been no games played, so what is this based on?

Just going from your post here it appears you have Jenkins in over Thompkins, when he has done nothing so far to distinguish himself. Hell, Aiken has looked more promising then Jenkins in their reports thus far.

That was not my projection it was the response to Tompkins and sudfeld have to make the team because they are competing against no one.
It was an example of a possibility.
Again 8 practices means very little

 

[Ring 6]

Patriots Training Camp Day 8

FFS Andy. It's rather simple. 8 practices do tell you a lot about a player in competition (as a short term mode of comparison) and Belichick has proven that it's a level playing field irregardless of mode of acquisition. How you've run with that is beyond belief.

My entire point is 8 practices is next to nothing. If you disagree fine. Not sure why you questioned me explaining the point when it turns out you didn't know what I was saying.

 

[Fencer]

Thoughts and Observations from Patriots Practice: Saturday Edition | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2013 NFL Draft

Adrian Wilson couldn't run with Sudfeld ... but Spikes could? WTF?

 

[ausbacker]

My entire point is 8 practices is next to nothing. If you disagree fine. Not sure why you questioned me explaining the point when it turns out you didn't know what I was saying.

I knew exactly what you were saying Andy and responded openly that I understood and largely agreed with your premise. Once more, your failure to pay other posters opinions the respect they deserve by properly reading their responses shines through.

 

[Ring 6]

Patriots Training Camp Day 8

Why can't we do both, we're just fans on a message board after all. I think they both have something to prove in preseason. I am rooting for Thompkins for upside sake, but he needs to carry his camp momentum into preseason for sure. Jenkins needs to show he can replicate past success in this system in preseason as well. Both of these guys are only depth imo anyway. Thompkins being young has the added bonus of possibly becoming more than a jag if your an optimist. Jenkins is what he is, a slow, big possession receiver on the wrong side of 30.

I never said bb owed Jenkins anything or implied anything like that. I'm not sure why you keep saying that. Past production prices he can play at this level. Thompkins has not. If thompkins proves he is better he makes the team. He has not done that yet because he has not done anything meaningful.

The difference is I see a guy who can play at an nfl level and do not believe he has already lost his job becuz a Udfa looked good in 8 practices.
I start out assuming the odds are thompkins won't be as good as Jenkins has been in his career because few udfas will be.
I don't think 8 practices is close to enough to judge that and history proves this as many week 1 camp Heros go nowhere.
That is all I am saying. If you want to argue differently feel free but please don't add things to my point that aren't there in order to make yours.

 

[Ring 6]

Patriots Training Camp Day 8

I knew exactly what you were saying Andy and responded openly that I understood and largely agreed with your premise. Once more, your failure to pay other posters opinions the respect they deserve by properly reading their responses shines through.

I cannot help it if you are not clear.
If I misunderstood you disregard my response.
I'm not sure why you get so upset over this stuff.
When I read your response I felt the need to clarify my point because your post made me think you weren't clear on what I meant.
How this is an affront I'm not sure but I certainly didnt mean it to be.

 

[ausbacker]

I cannot help it if you are not clear.
If I misunderstood you disregard my response.
I'm not sure why you get so upset over this stuff.
When I read your response I felt the need to clarify my point because your post made me think you weren't clear on what I meant.
How this is an affront I'm not sure but I certainly didnt mean it to be.

I'm not getting upset more I'm becoming frustrated given your modus operandi. You're not paying other people's opinions the respect they deserve by first, reading a post in its entirety, comprehending that post and responding in kind.

When someone agrees with most of your points then adds a few qualifiers, I simply don't understand why you become argumentative when that poster has agreed with 75-80% of what you've put forward.

 

[TB12_laser designator]

18 months on from the surgery to repair the ACL and microfracture, it really is not good to hear that Ballard was limping again yesterday. I am really beginning to worry about this guys future.

 

[ATippett56]

18 months on from the surgery to repair the ACL and microfracture, it really is not good to hear that Ballard was limping again yesterday. I am really beginning to worry about this guys future.

It would not surprise me if Ballard does not make the 53 man roster.

 

[Ive_Killed_People]

The narrative has been that BB made a great move to get Ballard when the need wasn't evident but the REAL story may be the signing of Sudfeld. I'm certainly rooting for Ballard to work out and make the roster dont get me wrong. I'd much rather see Fells cut than him.

 

[Brady6]

Patriots Training Camp Day 8

18 months on from the surgery to repair the ACL and microfracture, it really is not good to hear that Ballard was limping again yesterday. I am really beginning to worry about this guys future.

DI and I were discussing this in the Dowling thread, micro fracture surgery has had devastating impact on super star NBA players like Tracey McGrady, Penny Hardaway, Greg Oden, and several others. Ballard may not ever be the same player he was in 2011.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

I never said bb owed Jenkins anything or implied anything like that. I'm not sure why you keep saying that. Past production prices he can play at this level. Thompkins has not. If thompkins proves he is better he makes the team. He has not done that yet because he has not done anything meaningful.

When you make statements like this you give Jenkins respect he hasn't earned. Also ignoring vets that have come in here with past production and stunk on ice. Practice actually does mean something in camp. Jenkins has done nothing meaningful for the NE patriots. His past production means nothing now. Chad Johnson had a production too, he was close to useless here.

The difference is I see a guy who can play at an nfl level and do not believe he has already lost his job becuz a Udfa looked good in 8 practices.

You ask me not to add things to your point, but do so here. Quote me saying Jenkins has already lost due to 8 practices. But I will say what everyone watching has been saying, the long shot UDFA has looked better in camp and the reps reflect that.

I start out assuming the odds are thompkins won't be as good as Jenkins has been in his career because few udfas will be.
I don't think 8 practices is close to enough to judge that and history proves this as many week 1 camp Heros go nowhere.
That is all I am saying. If you want to argue differently feel free but please don't add things to my point that aren't there in order to make yours.

Your arguing with yourself here, you keep banging the 8 practices drum, when I simply have said Jenkins hasn't looked good and the UDFA has looked better. No one is cutting Jenkins....yet. We as fans are just discussing things as they unfold, as usual. So I'm not sure why you are railing against discussion of a position battle, one which Jenkins is losing unanimously thus far according to sources.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

That was not my projection it was the response to Tompkins and sudfeld have to make the team because they are competing against no one.
It was an example of a possibility.
Again 8 practices means very little

It says example or possibility nowhere in your post, but I'll take your word for it.

However, it lines up perfectly with what you seem to be saying. UDFA's are automatically on the PS pending preseason, and are behind all vets even if they appear more explosive, quicker, etc in camp. What is the point of camp then? What is the point of posting before preseason, if you refuse to acknowledge camp progressions and dismiss all the info you have thus far.

Essentially nothing has changed for you since after the draft then? Talk to you in preseason.

 

[Mack Herron]

That was not my projection it was the response to Tompkins and sudfeld have to make the team because they are competing against no one.
It was an example of a possibility.
Again 8 practices means very little

So no projections Andy? Just dropping in to tell us that it is too soon to tell? Okay, so if 8 practices is too few, how many practices is meaningful? 12? 15? 2 preseason games? all 4? And too soon for what? To know for certain? 74% probability? 35%? Do you think we do not realize that everyone on the roster is a logical possibility to make the squad right up until they are cut? You see the rest of us are just playing "guess the roster". Any guess about the final roster is--guess what--a guess. We make projections until our binkies are cut, then we simply revise and make new projections! That's why we have that cool program to play with and make revisions so easily. Come final cut-downs, we will all be wrong of course. You should jump in, it's fun. That said, if the best you can come up with is 2 injured vets, one of whom is nicknamed "molasses" and the other is coming off reconstructive knee surgery, it looks like those of us projecting 4 rookie receivers are really not far out on the limb at all.

 

[patsinthesnow]

It says example or possibility nowhere in your post, but I'll take your word for it.

However, it lines up perfectly with what you seem to be saying. UDFA's are automatically on the PS pending preseason, and are behind all vets even if they appear more explosive, quicker, etc in camp. What is the point of camp then? What is the point of posting before preseason, if you refuse to acknowledge camp progressions and dismiss all the info you have thus far.

Essentially nothing has changed for since after the draft then? Talk to you in preseason.

Ever since I've been here, Andy hates undrafteds/late round hard working guys, while constantly defending BB's early round picks. Hell, he would probably still have Maroney and Wheatley on this team.

Remember when you (Andy) said BJGE wasn't worth of being the 5th RB over the roster? You constantly called me out for no reason when I thought BJGE should start over Maroney in 09. Well how'd that turn out? One's been out of the league for two years and the other has had success as a starting RB on two teams.

You claim Ninkovich is terrible and doesn't generate a pass rush, while his sacks gravitate towards him, without no basis or fact.

What's the big deal if people like UDFAs as fans? They have great stories and while the majority of them just don't have the talent of drafted players, a few have special circumstances to why they went undrafted. (Thompkins, Sudfeld)

What's the difference between Dobson, Boyce, and Thompkins? Nothing, they are all rookies. I'm glad BB sees that and has put Thompkins on the first team above Boyce, Jenkins, etc. in training camp. Thompkins has already sent two vets packing in Hawkins and Jones, Jenkins is next.

I'm also glad BB realizes Dowling is a pretty mediocre CB and starts an undrafted CB (Arrington) and a 7th rounder (Dennard) above him, how dare he!

 

[Rob0729]

18 months on from the surgery to repair the ACL and microfracture, it really is not good to hear that Ballard was limping again yesterday. I am really beginning to worry about this guys future.

Microfracture surgery has an unusually long recovery time in a lot of cases, but there is a chance (possibly a good one) that Ballard may never be the same as he was again.