Pats and Vollmer agree

[borg]

Re: Pats resign Vollmer!!!

Find me a Wilfork/Warren/Seymour available when we pick and I'd agree with you. But you are talking about #6, #13 and #21 overall for those three picks. A DT that can both stop the run and pressure the QB (ie a 3 down guy) is an elite skillset that isn't a given at the backend of the first - even in a strong year for DT's.

Couple points:
1) Wilfork was a 2 down player for NE that slowly developed into an indispensable force
2) Wilfork is indispensable because of the lack of talent in the middle. He pushes the pocket but rarely makes it near the QB. Building the perfect D, is Big Vince the guy you want rushing on third and long?

 

[BigBeano]

Settle down there most had Armstead as a 3rd round pick only a few dummies in the media had him as a 1st round pick.

Before his heartattack iirc he was top 15 easy.

 

[mcmurtry86]

Before his heartattack iirc he was top 15 easy.

Not even close

 

[EwanSellars]

time to sign edelmen, martin, abraham and sanders. Then in the draft i hope we try and get Patton/Wheaton/Rogers at WR a complete LB in Greene or Brown some CB depth such as mcfadden if we dont sign sanders to an offer sheet or if we go DL Carradine for DE or Hankins at DT i really hope we either go for carradine in the first or trade down and trade mallett. Then we can get Brown and Kawann Short in the mid 2nd and get Patton/Wheaton at the end of the 2nd and then try and get mcfadden/rogers in the 3rd or a trade down to get a 4,5,6 to load up at WR, CB etc.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Before his heartattack iirc he was top 15 easy.

Noooo. Just no.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Noooo. Just no.

Top 15 is probably not right but you are wrong when you said most said he would be a 3rd rounder. The article in question said most scouts said he would be NO WORSE than a 3rd rounder.

See the difference ?

As he didn't play afterwards there no way to know what he would or would not have become.

 

[bagwell368]

Before his heartattack iirc he was top 15 easy.

Based on what he had done before his heart, and projecting average progress forward he wasn't even going in the top 90 in the draft.

He had what 2 sacks in his first 17 games, and some tackles. Active player, not dominant in any phase.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Re: Pats resign Vollmer!!!

Didn't like Talib, Arrington, Wilson, Amendola, Jones, Armstead?

And you guys call me a whiner

 

[bagwell368]

Good news. Would like to add Abraham, Edelman, Vaughn Martin, and Sanders via offer sheet to round out FA. Then focus on WR and DE/DT in the draft.

Assuming a $5M cap hit for Vollmer, how are we going to be able to afford all that? Your list is $7M in cap this year or more. Now we can do that, but who is getting cut? Connolly, Cunningham and Fells? What about the rest of the FA's, UDFA's and camp cuts BB is going to sign along the way?

 

[VrabelJr]

Based on what our DLine coaches have been able to get out of Love, Deaderick and others I think there's a high chance of Armstead turning into a pretty quality player.

 

[Urgent]

Great news.

This was a bit of a game of chicken, and I'll guess that the Patriots won. When Vollmer didn't go in the first 48 hours, probably due to the health concerns, the slow market the Patriots anticipated kicked in. So by getting Vollmer in the third week of free agency, rather than in the first day, they probably saved a lot of cap space.

They very likely still carry $10mm in cap space - enabling a hostile tender of Sanders with a roster bonus. And still sign an Abraham/vet DE.

I would be shocked to see Solder extend. If I was an agent, there is no way I would want to use anything going on in this market for a comparable. I'm hoping that the anticipated cap bump two years from now opens up wallets after the tight negotiations this year.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Like this news. Give Brady time in the pocket and he can find anyone..hell who needs WRs?

 

[Brady2Moss]

Top 15 is probably not right but you are wrong when you said most said he would be a 3rd rounder. The article in question said most scouts said he would be NO WORSE than a 3rd rounder.

See the difference ?

As he didn't play afterwards there no way to know what he would or would not have become.

No worse than a 3rd rounder means he isn't a clear cut second rounder or he would have gone no worse than the 2nd round. Nor was he a clear cut first rounder or he would have gone no worse than the 1st round. The fact that he was slotted to go no later than the 3rd round means he was a 3rd rounder or a late 2nd at best.

I'm not going to play a semantics game, the point was lets not act like we have 2 first round picks because we signed this guy. Temper your expectations or you will be disappointed. Right now I hope he is better than Cunningham which I think realistically he can be.

 

[Brady2Moss]

By the way people are floating around numbers like 4 years 28 or 4 years 32 million have you guys seen this? Given it was Howe and some other shmuck it was probably way off base. I was thinking it would be MAX 6 million a year. Any ideas what the terms would be?

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Any ideas what the terms would be?

No one here will have any idea until they could out and say what they gave him

 

[mcmurtry86]

Based on what our DLine coaches have been able to get out of Love, Deaderick and others I think there's a high chance of Armstead turning into a pretty quality player.

The D-Line hasn't been good enough for a few years now, especially on the inside. Deaderick and Love are backup/rotational quality guys and the coaching staff failed to get much out of Brace, Marquise Hill, Kareem Brown and just about every other young non-1st round pick (Warren, Seymour, Wilfork) DL the team has picked over the years. Mike Wright was a nice success and Deaderick - while mediocre/below average - has been good for a 7th rounder. But I don't see much reason to think that Armstead is going to get "coached up" into a premium player.

A rotational guy who can add a little push in sub defense? Sure. But that's (IMO) not good enough to provide the upgrade that the Pats front has needed since Seymour was traded.

 

[Kontradiction]

The D-Line hasn't been good enough for a few years now, especially on the inside. Deaderick and Love are backup/rotational quality guys and the coaching staff failed to get much out of Brace, Marquise Hill, Kareem Brown and just about every other young non-1st round pick (Warren, Seymour, Wilfork) DL the team has picked over the years. Mike Wright was a nice success and Deaderick - while mediocre/below average - has been good for a 7th rounder. But I don't see much reason to think that Armstead is going to get "coached up" into a premium player.

A rotational guy who can add a little push in sub defense? Sure. But that's (IMO) not good enough to provide the upgrade that the Pats front has needed since Seymour was traded.

Though I can't say that I've followed his career since, Armstead was a beast in college. That's certainly more than can be said for guys like Deaderick, Brace, and Love. I have confidence that he can turn into a quality DT.

EDIT: That being said, I can agree that DL is a pretty high priority come draft time.

 

[JackBauer]

Assuming a $5M cap hit for Vollmer, how are we going to be able to afford all that? Your list is $7M in cap this year or more. Now we can do that, but who is getting cut? Connolly, Cunningham and Fells? What about the rest of the FA's, UDFA's and camp cuts BB is going to sign along the way?

I'm not a capologist by any means so maybe it's not entirely realistic. Though I would cut the players you mentioned if it opened up the requisite space.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Ok. This is good. At this point we need to see the cap hit.

So, for all the commubulation for the first couple of weeks of free agency, it seems like here we are: (1) Same general core. (2) Moderate to significant downgrade at slot receiver. (3) Moderate downgrade at WR from Lloyd to Jones. (4) Moderate to significant upgrade at SS.

About $4 to $5 million left to spend, stll needing pass rush, WR help, and still with same basic CB core. Do I have that about right?

 

[ralmat55]

I would be shocked to see Solder extend. If I was an agent, there is no way I would want to use anything going on in this market for a comparable. I'm hoping that the anticipated cap bump two years from now opens up wallets after the tight negotiations this year.

I believe the CBA prevents extensions until a player has completed 3 years of his rookie contract anyway. This has been brought up in the discussions about trading Mallett.