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The Barwinian Theory of Football Evolution


I found myself beating the dead horse that is the need for an edge athlete and put myself in Draft Forum timeout.

Ansah has caught my eye. Maybe, BB jumps at a player instead of possible future value twice in a row, but I realize BB doesn't come in saying "I want to trade". Ansah shows everything you could see in Jones and adds some nastiness that is just old testament mean. I think the love of JPP comparisons will drive him up people's boards as draft season goes on. Unless we can spread rumors about him to bring him into Hernandez territory :D. Processing speed (to steal Mayo and Grid's term) is clearly above average and he's a bull, but hands look decent and motor is good.

Margus Hunt is meh to me. Gholston (MSU) is a guy I'd like to read more into but from what I've seen, he's a pin the ears back kind of guy. I think with a defense full of read and react guys, he could be okay and a specialist could certainly help, but he does a lot of running first and asking questions later.
 
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another cross-sport guy.....

DT Jesse Williams - alabama

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Williams_(American_football)

he actually played basketball AND rugby

to me, he is the perfect wilfork understudy.....you can see it in the eyes.......and the rest of him
rec_jwilliams_400.jpg
 
Im with you. My hope is that his stats this year make him fall to us.
 
another cross-sport guy.....

DT Jesse Williams - alabama

Jesse Williams (American football) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

he actually played basketball AND rugby

to me, he is the perfect wilfork understudy.....you can see it in the eyes.......and the rest of him
rec_jwilliams_400.jpg

He was on my short list for the Pats going back to the beginning of May:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-englan...-2013-prospect-thread-page3.html#post3034940 (see post #23)

I also said that he'll end up being as good as Lotulelei and Hankins in the long run.
 
I remember a reporter asking parcells where have all the great pass rushing D Linemen gone, and he said they play basket ball. They play basket ball because they're careers are longer, and because of that they make more money
I remember that. He mentioned the equipment needed for football versus the basketball courts in the neighborhoods. And I remember in that conversation him mentioning Charles Barkley and wondering what he could have done as a DE in football.

Very convincing at the time.

And a lot of these kids don't want to go through the rigors that football brings when basketball seems an easier transition to the pros.

Could you imagine the freakish athleticism and size that guy for the Miami Heat could present as a TE, making Gronk seem slow and small in comparison, 6'9" 270?
 
Gholston (MSU) is a guy I'd like to read more into but from what I've seen, he's a pin the ears back kind of guy. I think with a defense full of read and react guys, he could be okay and a specialist could certainly help, but he does a lot of running first and asking questions later.
He had another great bowl game against TCU, just like he did the previous year against Georgia.

His size is 6'7" nearly 280.

He's probably coming out with a baby son to support. But he shouldn't. Like his former teammate Jerel Worthy, he's terribly inconsistent. Dominant when he wants to be, which last season was few and far between. Really the dominance came out that I can recall versus Wisconsin and TCU. Against Michigan he was totally controlled by Taylor Lewan.

I don't think he goes any earlier than the second round, but his inconsistency and rash of mental mistakes, which he did mostly as a younger player, are red flags to me.

But the Detroit native, and related to Jets bust Vernon Gholston (his uncle I think), does have a cool Red Wings tattoo on his left bicep.
 
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Just read this. Fellow Brit. I want!

Edit: Scratch that. He's not very good.

Footwork is lacking for sure. Don't want Tom Brady's health in his hands. If you could get him in the 7th fine. He'd be our 9th OL for a couple of years. Scar would be licking his chops to get his hands on someone that athletic though.
 
Footwork is lacking for sure. Don't want Tom Brady's health in his hands. If you could get him in the 7th fine. He'd be our 9th OL for a couple of years. Scar would be licking his chops to get his hands on someone that athletic though.

Wouldn't he be better inside or is he too tall.

Give him credit. It's only his 16th game but there are other developmental guys I'd much rather have. Terron Armstead for example has much better feet. Watson really shouldn't be coming out.
 
Wouldn't he be better inside or is he too tall.

Give him credit. It's only his 16th game but there are other developmental guys I'd much rather have. Terron Armstead for example has much better feet. Watson really shouldn't be coming out.

They said he's 6'6". He looks to have a powerful build. He really should stay another year. We don't know his family situation. But, he might be a 1st rounder with another year of good work.

Check this clip out.

http://gifsoup.com/view2/4222666/meanlick-o.gif
 
Read about this guy on another board. Honestly, had never heard of him. I'm curious to watch him against N. Illinois tomorrow night. Supposed to be coming out early. 1 year of JUCO and 1 year at FSU. Former basketball player and wannabe boxer.

Menelik Watson endured strange journey to Florida State Seminoles - ESPN

Footwork is lacking for sure. Don't want Tom Brady's health in his hands. If you could get him in the 7th fine. He'd be our 9th OL for a couple of years. Scar would be licking his chops to get his hands on someone that athletic though.

From Kevin Weidl at ESPNInsider:

Watson (6-6, 320) was raised in England and had a tough childhood but eventually made it to a basketball academy in Spain. From there, he earned a scholarship to Marist, where he played two years of basketball before quitting because he disliked losing. (The Red Foxes went 6-27 in his redshirt freshman year.)

He briefly toyed with the idea of becoming a heavyweight boxer, but Watson instead landed at Saddleback Community College in California with the idea of taking up football. He arrived at Saddleback in August 2011 having never put on pads before, but his development was astounding. Watson was a starter by the fourth game of the season.

The Florida State staff took notice after being tipped off by a friend of Watson and offered him a scholarship, and Watson started 12 games at right tackle for the Seminoles this season.

Watson's basketball background shows on the field. His natural feet and athleticism were on display on the first play of the Florida game, when he opened up and pulled easily down the line into space.

He is raw in terms of awareness and locating defenders and is a step late recognizing blitz and twists at times, but those things will improve with experience. Watson has the smooth feet to shuffle and mirror against pass-rushers, and his long arms help him ride defenders past the pocket.

I do have questions about his lower-body strength and ability to anchor in protection. He can be seen being lifted off his feet by speed-to-power moves at times against the Gators, and Floyd even threw him to the ground at one point. He was often rocked back into the pocket against Florida and also against Virginia Tech, when his subpar angles caused him to be beaten inside at times.

Scouts are sure to be intrigued with Watson's physical tools and potential. The fringe of Day 2 appears to be a starting point for his stock.

2013 NFL draft - Florida DT Shariff Floyd is gaining momentum - ESPN

NFL DraftScout has Watson ranked #77 currently. Seems like people are catching on to Barwinian Evolution. We saw something of this last year with guys like Brandon Hardin and Akiem Hicks - who were considered late day 3 picks going into the draft - going in the 3rd round.
 
He had another great bowl game against TCU, just like he did the previous year against Georgia.

His size is 6'7" nearly 280.

He's probably coming out with a baby son to support. But he shouldn't. Like his former teammate Jerel Worthy, he's terribly inconsistent. Dominant when he wants to be, which last season was few and far between. Really the dominance came out that I can recall versus Wisconsin and TCU. Against Michigan he was totally controlled by Taylor Lewan.

I don't think he goes any earlier than the second round, but his inconsistency and rash of mental mistakes, which he did mostly as a younger player, are red flags to me.

But the Detroit native, and related to Jets bust Vernon Gholston (his uncle I think), does have a cool Red Wings tattoo on his left bicep.

My alternative to Gholston is Utah junior DE Joe Kruger, who also declared. Like Gholston he's 6'7" 280#. He's the younger brother of Baltimore OLB Paul Kruger, and reportedly is faster than his brother and the best athlete of the family (another brother also plays for Utah). One local radio host refers to him as a "sasquatch". He played most of the season on a bum ankle so his film may not fully reflect his athleticism, but he did sometimes play out of a 2 point stance, and reportedly has 4.7 speed. If he's anything like his bother Paul I would expect him to have a great motor and work ethic and be very tough, without any of the character or maturity issues that surround William Gholston.
 
Another cross-sport example is our very own Dane Fletcher, who was a top hockey prospect growing up, and only switched to football very late. And Jeff Demps, who's an olympic caliber track guy. Brady was a pitcher and had pretty good stuff. Drew Henson, who was a QB at Michigan with Brady (and overshadowed Brady) went to baseball first, and then came back to the NFL and flopped there, too. Stephen Neal was a fixture on our OL for the SB years, after coming up as a National Champion in wrestling and learning to play football at the hands of Dante Scarneccia.

Interesting idea for a thread, but this is not anything new that I can tell. Bo Jackson was a mind numbing multi-sport athlete. To suggest that Connor Barwin is a point of evolution in the history of football is overstating the point pretty seriously. Connor Barwin is a minor footnote in the history of football and hasn't done squat to deserve a theory named after him, except as the draft binkie for a lot of Patriots Fans--myself included.

If there is a trend, it may be that football is more popular than ever, and some multi-sport athletes who might have decided to play a different sport have opted for the NFL. Basketball has been fading from it's heights of cool in the 80s and 90s. Baseball hasn't been cool since the 40s. Kids who are athletic, growing up, can choose which sport they love. And more of them choose football today than in the past, because salaries are up, and more importantly they are fans of the game.

At a macro-level, this trend might be reversing. All the talk about concussions and the debilitating long term effects may drive some mutli-sport athletes away. The Junior Seau suicide and star players saying if they knew then what it would cost them, they would never have played the game. And fact that the commissioner is a bastard, leaving a taint on the sport. Athletes who have a choice will take that stuff into consideration when making career decisions.

I am reminded of Jeff Samardzija, who was an All-American WR and a star at Notre Dame a few years ago. Big dude with soft hands, and a tendency to make big plays. Reminds me a little of Hernandez in how he moves. That guy chose to play baseball as a pro, even though he would have been a likely first round pick in the NFL.

Multi-sport athleticism is not new. It's old, very old.

The other thing that may be going on is the success of the NFL overseas is drawing a larger pool of prospects now than in the past. More players from Australia, Germany, West Africa, West Indies. Rugby players, especially kickers. Hockey players. Players who don't know the rules and never played the game growing up. Sebastian Vollmer. The NFL has always tended to attract it's share of Polynesian athletes. The best Latin athletes still go to soccer.

No doubt football is becoming more global, and people like Jason Pierre Paul might never have considered football as a career option in the past. The NBA went through this same globalization effect, and NBA rosters read more like the United Nations now, drawing players from Turkey, China, Russia, Germany, Nigeria, etc., than back in the days of Bird and Magic.

Some of that may be happening in the NFL, too... gradually. That is new. But that has damn-close-to-nothing to do with Connor Barwin.

The other observation in the OP is the prevalence of players switching positions. Moving from DL to OL. Moving from QB to WR. Moving from WR to S. Moving from TE to OT. Really, is this new? I don't even want to start listing examples, because the cup runneth over. Bill Belichick started his career at OC, lol!! It's human nature to shift and move, and players have been moving positions in the game of football since the dawn of time... with or without Connor Barwin!
 
Brady was a pitcher and had pretty good stuff.

Brady wasn't a pitcher, he was a catcher (I know that sounds horrible:D)

Connor Barwin is a minor footnote in the history of football and hasn't done squat to deserve a theory named after him, except as the draft binkie for a lot of Patriots Fans--myself included

Since Mayo started the thread I think he can name the theory anything he damn well pleases:rocker:
 
Connor Barwin is a minor footnote in the history of football and hasn't done squat to deserve a theory named after him, except as the draft binkie for a lot of Patriots Fans--myself included.

It's just Mayoclinic being witty, because Barwin rhymes with Darwin.
 
Interesting idea for a thread, but this is not anything new that I can tell. To suggest that Connor Barwin is a point of evolution in the history of football is overstating the point pretty seriously. Connor Barwin is a minor footnote in the history of football and hasn't done squat to deserve a theory named after him, except as the draft binkie for a lot of Patriots Fans--myself included.

If there is a trend, it may be that football is more popular than ever, and some multi-sport athletes who might have decided to play a different sport have opted for the NFL.

Multi-sport athleticism is not new. It's old, very old.

The other observation in the OP is the prevalence of players switching positions. Moving from DL to OL. Moving from QB to WR. Moving from WR to S. Moving from TE to OT. Really, is this new? I don't even want to start listing examples, because the cup runneth over. Bill Belichick started his career at OC, lol!! It's human nature to shift and move, and players have been moving positions in the game of football since the dawn of time... with or without Connor Barwin!

It's just Mayoclinic being witty, because Barwin rhymes with Darwin.

To address some of these points:

1. I've said that mutli-sport athleticism is very, very old. Go back to Jim Thorpe if you want to.

2. Players switching positions is nothing new, as I've said, just like crossing sports. But there HAS been a more active evolution in scouting to look for prospects from other sports with raw athleticism, and to take a much earlier risk on them in the draft based on their athletic potential. Look at the example above of Menelik Watson, who had never put on straps until a year and a half ago, who is still technically very raw and lacks instincts, but who could be a day 2 pick in the draft. That high a projection is something new, IMHO, and is the effect of "Barwinian" evolution - of scouts and FOs realizing the potential impact of these elite athletes, and their ability to make position changes and pick up the game much more quickly than previously thought.

3. As for Barwin, as MHTK says, a large part of the reason for using his name is simply a pun. But the other part is that I do think that Barwin is part of an inflection point that occurred around 2009-2010, where teams began to realize that guys with elite athleticism would have an impact much sooner than projected. I have no doubt that if Barwin were coming out this year he would be a 1st round pick. What we are seeing this year is there is a tendency for guys with elite athleticism who are still raw to rise much more quickly, and less of an emphasis on taking "high floor" guys who have several years of consistent tape, but who may have maxed out their potential. Barwin himself may only be a footnote in this evolution, but I think that he came out at a period that was something of an inflection point in the shift of values, and that, along with the pun, was why I used his name in the title. I already said all of that (post #13 above) for anyone who had bothered to take the time to read the thread. And I really don't see why I can't pick whatever title I damn well wanted to.

What's different now is that teams are taking bigger and bigger risks on guys with little experience but elite size and athleticism, and usual higher draft picks on them. Brandon Hardin and Akiem Hicks were projected late round picks last year, and both ended up going 3rd round. Teams are relying less and less on tape and college productivity and more and more on athleticism and projection. They're looking more and more at guys with diverse athletic backgrounds, and position switches are becoming more and more common. All of it happened in the past, but it's becoming much more mainstream now, and the development of these guys can be very fast. These guys seem to explode out of nowhere: Anthony Barr went from becoming an unknown to an impact player in a matter of weeks.

Part of the theme of this thread is that there are probably dozens of guys - perhaps more - with elite athleticism and high upside sitting around undiscovered, the way Barr, Ansah, Watson and Long were last year. They won't show up on the early 1st round projections that come out for next year's draft in April. Draftniks like Mel Kiper won't have heard of most of them, as they're not scouts. The trick is finding them, and especially getting them before they're discovered and their stock rises.
 
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