NFL flip-flops, says Hobbs call was correct

[IndyPatriotsfan]

One play I am still confused as to why BB didn't throw a challange flag was Saturday's fumble recovery and TD. When I saw the replay, you could clearly see that the ball NEVER crossed the goal-line until after he was down by contact. And I thought, that the only person who could advance a fumble was either a defensive player or the person who originally fumbled the ball. If someone else on the offense recovers it, he can only secure the ball. The ball was never in the end-zone before being downed.

 

[PATSNUTme]

What do you mean flip flops? Axe Vic said the wrong call was made. The actual NFL said the right one was made. Big difference.

Have you seen the play over again? I was very clear that Hobbs never touched the reciever.

Don't worry the outcome of the game will not change. But, maybe you should be a little more credible and just say it was a bad call.

 

[Fixit]

The Gaffney touchdown in the back of the endzone, for instance, was a judgement call by the refs that went the pats way.

You've got to be kidding. That was a great play by Gaffney. He tiptoed the sideline, stayed on his toes, got control of the ball, and definitely would have gotten his second foot down.

The refs made the correct call and then it was confirmed on a challenge; there was none of that "there is not enough evidence to overturn the call" stuff.

Now an obviously correct call that gets made and benefits the Pats is a call "going their way"? And it's supposed to make a wash of one ridiculous call (Hobbs) and another sublimely ridiculous non-call (Caldwell)?

I can't stand it.

 

[MTaylorJ1]

You've got to be kidding. That was a great play by Gaffney. He tiptoed the sideline, stayed on his toes, got control of the ball, and definitely would have gotten his second foot down.

The refs made the correct call and then it was confirmed on a challenge; there was none of that "there is not enough evidence to overturn the call" stuff.

Now an obviously correct call that gets made and benefits the Pats is a call "going their way"? And it's supposed to make a wash of one ridiculous call (Hobbs) and another sublimely ridiculous non-call (Caldwell)?

I can't stand it.

Does anyone besides me wonder why the media is so reluctant to break officials down? To me as a diehard fan who knows a decent amount about the game. I'd rather see a reporter or analyst break down some key calls to the game as opposed to concentrating on who taunted whom, or who didn't shake who's hand, or who berated their coach on the sideline, etc.

 

[Fixit]

Does anyone besides me wonder why the media is so reluctant to break officials down? To me as a diehard fan who knows a decent amount about the game. I'd rather see a reporter or analyst break down some key calls to the game as opposed to concentrating on who taunted whom, or who didn't shake who's hand, or who berated their coach on the sideline, etc.

*raises hand*

 

[The Dog]

All successful teams have gotten breaks whether it is from officials or just good bounces. The Pats have had their's as have teams in the past like the Steelers, Cowboys etc. Did the Colts benefit in this game? Maybe maybe not. The fact of the matter is when given the opportunity they capitalized just as the Pats did in the past.

For the poster who said in the past that the Pats had always been screwed and won anyways STFU. GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS.

 

[bakes781]

I watched the play again on DVR & there was contact initiated by Hobbs. His right hand touches Wayne's left arm before he jumps up to block the ball.

 

[MTaylorJ1]

I watched the play again on DVR & there was contact initiated by Hobbs. His right hand touches Wayne's left arm before he jumps up to block the ball.

Of the 3 possible outcomes of the 2 plays involving Hobbs/Wayne and Caldwell/Hayden. Which of the 3 is most explainable.

P.I. on Hobbs No P.I. on Hayden
P.I. on Hobbs P.I. on Hayden
No P.I. on Hobbs P.I. on Hayden

From what I saw at full speed (which is what the referees see the play at) and with them (should) knowing that faceguarding isn't a rule. Scenario 3 is clearly the most plausible, but you could argue for Scenario 2. Scenario 1 isn't plausible.

As an athlete myself, I get that officials are "human" but officials also need to be consistent in the framework of a game.

Its easy for a fan of either team to sit back and say well, so and so had opportunities to make plays and they didn't make them. But in some cases, at big moments in the game, (and don't kid yourselves, these were both huge moments) In my mind, the Patriots player did make a play in the framework of that game, and the officials erred. Its tough to recover from such things because you only have so many oppportunities to make plays that will change an outcome. To say that they should make every play presented to them is unrealistic.

For whomever DVR'd the game. I am curious to know whether on the Troy Brown O.P.I. call. Who initiated contact and how far from the line of scrimmage were they?

 

[bakes781]

I was merely commenting on the Hobbs play, but obviously I would agree the contact made on Caldwell was far worse. I haven't rewatched the Troy Brown play.

Of the 3 possible outcomes of the 2 plays involving Hobbs/Wayne and Caldwell/Hayden. Which of the 3 is most explainable.

P.I. on Hobbs No P.I. on Hayden
P.I. on Hobbs P.I. on Hayden
No P.I. on Hobbs P.I. on Hayden

From what I saw at full speed (which is what the referees see the play at) and with them (should) knowing that faceguarding isn't a rule. Scenario 3 is clearly the most plausible, but you could argue for Scenario 2. Scenario 1 isn't plausible.

As an athlete myself, I get that officials are "human" but officials also need to be consistent in the framework of a game.

Its easy for a fan of either team to sit back and say well, so and so had opportunities to make plays and they didn't make them. But in some cases, at big moments in the game, (and don't kid yourselves, these were both huge moments) In my mind, the Patriots player did make a play in the framework of that game, and the officials erred. Its tough to recover from such things because you only have so many oppportunities to make plays that will change an outcome. To say that they should make every play presented to them is unrealistic.

For whomever DVR'd the game. I am curious to know whether on the Troy Brown O.P.I. call. Who initiated contact and how far from the line of scrimmage were they?

 

[MTaylorJ1]

I was merely commenting on the Hobbs play, but obviously I would agree the contact made on Caldwell was far worse. I haven't rewatched the Troy Brown play.

I understand, wasn't attacking you. Just found it funny that Aiello was quick to come out and say. It was the right call, there was contact. If that was a statement that he was making then its odd. If it was an interview. I would have liked the interviewer to ask him about the point I made, "More contact than the Caldwell play?".

 

[A.C Vegas]

One play I am still confused as to why BB didn't throw a challange flag was Saturday's fumble recovery and TD. When I saw the replay, you could clearly see that the ball NEVER crossed the goal-line until after he was down by contact. And I thought, that the only person who could advance a fumble was either a defensive player or the person who originally fumbled the ball. If someone else on the offense recovers it, he can only secure the ball. The ball was never in the end-zone before being downed.

1) I could be wrong but the Offensive Player can advance the ball on a fumble on anydown but 4th
2) I'm sure BB felt theat they would just get it on the next down and it wasn't worht it to risk the challenge (even though he was down and the ball was not in the endzone yet)

 

[Oswlek]

No, it's just rather strange you spend so much time here.

It is *good* to have opposing teams' fans here. I am sure that Ryan would still be here had NE gotten the first down because he has proven himself to be a decent guy.

Please don't chase him away because he roots for the team that just beat NE.

 

[Bella*chick]

I didn't know this was a Patriots fan only forum? If it is, please feel free to have Ian ban me for being a Colts fan.

Oh, get over yourself. No one is saying you should be banned...we are just wondering why you CHOOSE to be on a Pats board when your team surely has a board of it's own.

Also, you've made "your point of view" clear in an antagonizing fashion...."dynasty was still alive?", eh? Here's a hint, pal. It still is, unless you can point me to a football team widely considered a dynasty who won the Superbowl more than twice in a row. I'll await your "facts".

Here's my "point of view".....your opinion about the Hobbs call is dead wrong. Your team benefitted from some bad calls....get over it.


eta: Ryan may be a decent guy (and I know he is, I've been around here for awhile), but that doesn't mean he can't be called out when he starts in on comments like "when your dynasty was still alive". There are enough annoying people who claim to be Pats fans without having to tippy-toe around one who is a bona fide Colts fan.

 

[ajmitch81]

Right. And the Patriots had their share of gifts from the officials when you're dynasty was alive.

Are you saying the dynasty is dead?. I would have to respecfully disagree with you Ryan.

Two first round picks, a second rounder, a Quarterback who has seen everything and is still in his prime. A young Running Back who will only get better, a solid core of WR's (yes you heard me correctly). I'd have to say the dynasty may be getting ready to make a return trip - but it's certainly not dead.

With the Free Agents the Colts have and the age of your best WR -- I'd be more worried about sealing the deal this season, because the Colts may be in store for a fairly hard fall if they don't retain guys like Cato June or Dwight Freeney. Yes you have Bob Sanders but it takes 11 on defense -- and losing two of your best would be quite a big hit. Considering you couldn't keep Edge, do you really like your chances of keeping both of those guys?

Good luck Sunday -- you're the 2002 Rams and the Bears are the 2002 Patriots... Let's hope your team doesn't buy too much into the hype that they've been hearing for two weeks now. The Bears are 13-3 and if they play their Defense Manning will be in for a rough night... and the Marino comparisions will be all the more appropriate. "They came to see an offense and the wrong one showed up..... " (quote from 49ers player in the 84 Super Bowl)

Thanks for reading.

 

[mtbykr]

Ok, a couple things here. The tuck rule (i still can't believe we are talking about it) is a rule (not up to interpertation) and it was reviewed and overturned (called a fumble initially). Everything was correctly called there. The play on Hobbs was crap...let's just call a spade a spade here and be done. I didn't see any contact, but if there was a touch of the arm fine, but that wasn't being called all game (again a judgement call on these and they are not reviewable) We all agree the caldwell non call was garbage as well.

Now while these 2 calls went against the pats and did affect the outcome of the game (the game would have been played differently from then on, so who's to say what happens) the main reason the pats lost the game was their innability to keep healthy players on the field. Be it from the SD game and trip or the flu or whatever.....we were playing 3rd and 4th string players on D for most of the 2nd half............that's why we lost the game!


Now the NFL has done this simply to make sure the dolts win (assuming they win) will not be tainted in any way....they have waited a long time to have the poster boy of the NFL win it all, they don't want any mistakes.

And Ryan, you have always been a great poster with class...keep it that way becuase it seems like finally getting over the hump (although no ring yet) has gotten you wound up!

 

[DaBruinz]

Its amazing that people claim that Hobbs made contact when none of the replays showed, definitively, that he made contact.

Kind of like the earlier one when Colts fans claimed that Hobbs was HOLDING Wayne when, in reality, you couldn't tell because you didn't have a shot from over head or behind. You only had the SIDE view.

Now, I've seen the replay numerous times and unless there are others out there from a different angle, the replay doesn't show Hobbs arm contacting Wayne's.

Also, for those quoting the rules, the rules say that the contact has to impede the progress of the receiver from getting the ball. So, unless you can definitively say that Hobbs arm hitting Wayne's prevented Wayne from pushing THROUGH Hobbs to get back to the ball, your theory doesn't fly. In fact, it falls flat on its face. The ball was clearly under-thrown and the contact that occured did not impede Wayne's progress because Wayne was moving AWAY from the ball, not towards it.

 

[Brady to Brown]

1 of several bad calls vs. the Patriots in this game. My question is why not let the ref crews stay together that work together all year.

 

[upstater1]

I was merely commenting on the Hobbs play, but obviously I would agree the contact made on Caldwell was far worse. I haven't rewatched the Troy Brown play.

There's also the Graham-Bethea play on the Patriots second to last possession.

Personally, I'm not upset that the flag was thrown on the Hobbs call. The refs are human, ver hard to tell if there's contact.

BUT the head ref cited FACEGUARDING when he explained the penalty. Clearly, he didn't know the rule had been changed.

The Caldwell call, the Brown penalty, and the Graham call are inexcusable in my opinion.

 

[upstater1]

One play I am still confused as to why BB didn't throw a challange flag was Saturday's fumble recovery and TD. When I saw the replay, you could clearly see that the ball NEVER crossed the goal-line until after he was down by contact. And I thought, that the only person who could advance a fumble was either a defensive player or the person who originally fumbled the ball. If someone else on the offense recovers it, he can only secure the ball. The ball was never in the end-zone before being downed.

One problem with that play is that they only showed one replay and it was completely unclear what happened.

 

[upstater1]

If anyone cares to rewind previous championship games, they'll see the Patriots were on the wrong end of a lot of calls by the refs. Especially the games against Pittsburgh, I can recall catches by receivers ruled incomplete, and fumbles that were clear ruled down. Look at the Denver game last year and all the calls against the Patriots, or the bad calls in the Chargers game (fumbles ruled incomplete passes). Over the last few years, I've seen most judgement calls go against the Patriots. The tuck rule was also a judgement call, ultimately, and in the end the Patriots prevailed on that one, but you should know that the Patriots record was directly impacted that year by a loss to the Jets because of the tuck rule. Our playoff path would have been entirely different had we won that game.

No one here is complaining that Indy won unfairly. They deserved to win the game. We're talking about the NFL's attempts to whitewash bad refereeing. You shouldn't talk in that case, because your organization whines about the refs more than any other in professional football.