So now its $3.5million in remaining cap space?

[mgteich]

Your point is well-taken. We have two offseasons, two drafts and tens of millions of caps money to fill any holes. Also, we can be more aggressive after this season knowing that there are no "must" signs after 2007.

I disagree with you on one player. I believe that Mike Wright is a must-sign. However, he will be an ERFA after this year and a RFA after 2007, so we can simply extend him after this year or next, or offer him top RFA money after 2007, and have Wright or a 1st and a 3rd.

--------------
The FO has a lot of work after this year, especially given the likely depleted FA class, with many teams overpaying their own with the "extra" new CBA cap money. We may do well to do the same. We have the following players to re-sign or replace this year.

OFFENSE: WR Brown
TE Graham
FB Evans
DEFENSE CB Samuel
CB Scott
CB Mickens
LB Seau
LB Banta-Cain
ST Izzo
Davis
Gardner

It will be interesting to see what they do. According to Miguel's site, we don't have a single "must sign" UFA after 2007 :

"Rashad Baker, S
Ted Bruschi, LB
Reche Caldwell, WR
Jabar Gaffney, WR
Randall Gay, CB
Atrell Hawkins, S
Tebucky Jones, S
Mel Mitchell, S
Lonie Paxton, LS
Chad Scott, CB
Eugene Wilson, S
Mike Wright, DT"

Apologies to Bruschi but he'll be a year older by this time next year. I'd also re-sign Hawkins, Caldwell, maybe Wilson. But that's not a scary list at all.

Maybe we can add a little extra to the offers this year and get a Fletcher or Nate Clements or the like.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

--------------
The FO has a lot of work after this year, especially given the likely depleted FA class, with many teams overpaying their own with the "extra" new CBA cap money. We may do well to do the same. We have the following players to re-sign or replace this year.

OFFENSE: WR Brown
TE Graham
FB Evans
DEFENSE CB Samuel
CB Scott
CB Mickens
LB Seau
LB Banta-Cain
ST Izzo
Davis
Gardner

That's easily done IMO.

The only loss that would REALLY hurt is Samuel. He'd need to be replaced with a player, at worst, of his equal ability. Graham - sure I'd like him back but Watson and Thomas as the top two TE with a draftee #3 is fine. TBC - we can sign him or the equivalent easily enough. The rest are marginal role/ST players who, again, can be re-signed or easily replaced.

CB is the big question. How happy are they with Hobbs, what will they do with Samuel. Other than that and, to a lesser extent, TE and LB, we're set with our basic team until 24 months from now when Warren and Colvin become UFA. And in 36 months, all hell breaks loose but that's a long way away.

 

[mgteich]

"easily" doable? Perhaps. We are certainly is good position with cap money and draft picks. And of course, we all hope at least a couple of these players will be re-signed before free agency starts, as is usually the case. Of course, much of this is just the beginning of an off-season of handwringing. We both know that we already have a playoff quality team under contract for 2007.

I think that CB, LB and WR are key positions where we need re-signings or quality replacements.

We should not underestimate how well it worked out at LB this year compared to last. We were able to pick up a quality FA in Seau. Banta-Cain stepped up when Seau went down. And Bruschi has been able to be OK even playing with a broken wrist. Have we had any meaningful contributions from the LB backups, other than on special teams?

THREE POSITIONS OF CHALLENGE
CB Hobbs is the only corner signed for 2007.
LB We are thin at linebacker after Bruschi, Vrabel and Colvin.
WR We are thin at receiver with Caldwell,Gaffney,Jackson,Childress and Kight

Wasn't this the needs list for last year, and the year before?

 

[cstjohn17]

"easily" doable? Perhaps. We are certainly is good position with cap money and draft picks. And of course, we all hope at least a couple of these players will be re-signed before free agency starts, as is usually the case. Of course, much of this is just the beginning of an off-season of handwringing. We both know that we already have a playoff quality team under contract for 2007.

I think that CB, LB and WR are key positions where we need re-signings or quality replacements.

We should not underestimate how well it worked out at LB this year compared to last. We were able to pick up a quality FA in Seau. Banta-Cain stepped up when Seau went down. And Bruschi has been able to be OK even playing with a broken wrist. Have we had any meaningful contributions from the LB backups, other than on special teams?

THREE POSITIONS OF CHALLENGE
CB Hobbs is the only corner signed for 2007.
LB We are thin at linebacker after Bruschi, Vrabel and Colvin.
WR We are thin at receiver with Caldwell,Gaffney,Jackson,Childress and Kight

Wasn't this the needs list for last year, and the year before?

Yes. I agree 100%

LB & CB have been on my list for at least two years. At CB I believe Chad Scott is signed for next year and Gay is an RFA. Neither player should be considered a starter but are ok as backups.

Edit - 2:14 PM - Forgot to mention WR, I am not sold on this group at all. Most of the teams playing in the BCS have better WRs than the Patriots. The FA class look terrible. It would be very risky to slot Jackson into the #1 slot in 2007 and I don't think Caldwell as a #1 is very appealing either. I would pull the trigger on an imapct WR in round one, choose from this list. #1A (please Seattle lose to Tampa tomorrow) Jarrett, Ginn or with #1B - Bowe, Meachem or Samardzija.

My latest thinking is that a veteran FA is brought in at ILB, maybe Napolean Harris from Minnesota or Mitchell from KC. At CB they may go young, they may not see value in keeping Samuel if the front seven is dominant. Should be very interesting.

 

[Digger44]

Would all of you please stop criticizing the Pats, their management, because according to a couple of posters here, you shouldnt say anything negative about them or if you do, you are a troll and not a true fan.

No your the troll here. Typical liar propaganda.

 

[mgteich]

I try to wait until after the SB to discuss 2007 roster. However, I thought I'd see what we already have. See below for a 53 man roster that includes all those signed plus ERFA's (they have no choice), Santonio Thomas (an ERFA on the Practice Squad), and RFA's Gay and Baker who could be offered enough so that we'd sign him or get at least a 1st.
=========================================
2007 Roster as of December 30, 2006

OFFENSE (24)
QB – 2 Brady, Cassell
RB - 3 Dillon, Maroney, Faulk
FB - 0
C - 2 Koppen, Mruczkowski
G - 4 Neal, Hochstein, Mankins, Yates
OT - 4 Light, Kanzur, O'Callaghan, Britt
WR - 6 Caldwell, Chad Jackson, Gaffney, Kight, Childress, Shelton
TE - 3 Watson, Dave Thomas, Mills

DEFENSE/ST (26)
DE - 5 Seymour, Warren, Green, Hill, Thomas
DT - 3 Wilfork, Wright, Le Kevin Smith
LB - 6 Vrabel, Colvin, Bruschi, Alexander, Woods, Mays
CB - 5 Hobbs, Wilson, Spann, Gay, Williams
S - 7 Sanders, Harrison, Andrews, Hawkins, Jones, Mitchell, Baker

SPECIALISTS (3)
P - 1 Miller
K - 1 Gostkowski
LS - 1 Paxton

That's easily done IMO.

The only loss that would REALLY hurt is Samuel. He'd need to be replaced with a player, at worst, of his equal ability. Graham - sure I'd like him back but Watson and Thomas as the top two TE with a draftee #3 is fine. TBC - we can sign him or the equivalent easily enough. The rest are marginal role/ST players who, again, can be re-signed or easily replaced.

CB is the big question. How happy are they with Hobbs, what will they do with Samuel. Other than that and, to a lesser extent, TE and LB, we're set with our basic team until 24 months from now when Warren and Colvin become UFA. And in 36 months, all hell breaks loose but that's a long way away.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Smart to use it know, LTBE incentives or other restructures are generally easier to setup than an extension. Extensions by nature are more complex negotiations.

This will give us even more room in 07. Who knows they may even do a little more to get rid of the remaining 3.5.

They are really in solid shape for next year, two first round picks, $30M ~ in cap space and only 2.5 starting positions to filll.
CB - starters to replace (Samuel)
LB - replacement for TBC ot Seau or both
TE - 1/2 TE spot, Graham shares his starting position with Watson

That assumes they don't re-sign all three. I think the cap situation that all the League faces this year, with all the teasm more than flush, probably means very little FA movement. But lots of big contracts given to team's own players. At least you know waht you are getting; square pegs in round holes, don't happen in those circumstances.

BB is smart enough to know that its easier to get better ADDING additional players, than it is in merely substituting players, (ie "upgrading"). Ordinarily he doesn't have the luxury, this year they ALL do.

 

[cstjohn17]

That assumes they don't re-sign all three. I think the cap situation that all the League faces this year, with all the teasm more than flush, probably means very little FA movement. But lots of big contracts given to team's own players. At least you know waht you are getting; square pegs in round holes, don't happen in those circumstances.

BB is smart enough to know that its easier to get better ADDING additional players, than it is in merely substituting players, (ie "upgrading"). Ordinarily he doesn't have the luxury, this year they ALL do.

If they sign Samuel and Graham, I am ok with that. Even if Seau and/or TBC are retained I still think they need some help at ILB. The problem for the Patriots is that there will be 31 other teams going after these players, some with a lot of cap room and silly GMs. Anything can happen but once they hit the open market the odds are less than 50/50 that players return to their original team.

If Samuel and Graham are signed, and the draft goes ok. I would consider that a very successful offseason.

 

[mgteich]

Personally, l start with few assumptions, just signed players. Most of us include the ERFA's and RFA's as signed since the ERFA's can't be lost and the RFA's can be offered enough for us to keep the player or get a 1st in the current year's draft. Curiously, we already have a 53 man squad (see last post). There is about $21M left even after signing all the ERFA's and RFA's. Even after allowing the generous $6M for the net cost of draftees and an injury fund for the 2007 season, we still have $15M for free agents and re-signs. This is a huge amount!

Note that the first year of most free agent contracts rarely cost more than $2.5M. For example, a four year contract with a $6M bonus and a $1M first year salary would have a cap hit of $2.5M no matter what the salaries or additional bonuses after the first year. $15M allows for the signing of as many free agents as the FO finds valuable enough to sign. Re-signs are always first priority. Most are signed before free agency starts, or are not signed at all.

That assumes they don't re-sign all three. I think the cap situation that all the League faces this year, with all the teasm more than flush, probably means very little FA movement. But lots of big contracts given to team's own players. At least you know waht you are getting; square pegs in round holes, don't happen in those circumstances.

BB is smart enough to know that its easier to get better ADDING additional players, than it is in merely substituting players, (ie "upgrading"). Ordinarily he doesn't have the luxury, this year they ALL do.

 

[spacecrime]

Would all of you please stop criticizing the Pats, their management, because according to a couple of posters here, you shouldnt say anything negative about them or if you do, you are a troll and not a true fan.

Ah, yes, people have been blasting the Pats for the last eight months for not spending more of that money they have. Now that the Pats are spending it, rather than say, "I was wrong. I assumed the Pats were not going to spend it, but they did," these Negateers try to spin it so that they aren't allowed to criticize the Pats at all.

Which of course is not the case. Criticize them for not spending 2006 money it you wish, but if you criticize them before giving them a chance to spend it all, just admit that you jumped the gun and criticized then without merit.

I do understand why you and Felger and the others felt the need to criticize early in the year. You are like Dolphin fans. They had to get their bragging done before the season started, and you had to do your carping before the spending season ended.

At least the Dolphin fans had the grace to be quiet after being proven wrong. You guys are just asshats.

It isn't that you aren't allowed to criticise, but witht he cap spending as with your OC criticism, you are operating from a position of ignorance and it shows.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I do understand why you and Felger and the others felt the need to criticize early in the year. You are like Dolphin fans. They had to get their bragging done before the season started, and you had to do your carping before the spending season ended.

At least the Dolphin fans had the grace to be quiet after being proven wrong. You guys are just asshats.

It isn't that you aren't allowed to criticise, but witht he cap spending as with your OC criticism, you are operating from a position of ignorance and it shows.

Another vote for the much needed asshat forum

 

[psychoPat]

Personally, l start with few assumptions, just signed players. Most of us include the ERFA's and RFA's as signed since the ERFA's can't be lost and the RFA's can be offered enough for us to keep the player or get a 1st in the current year's draft. Curiously, we already have a 53 man squad (see last post). There is about $21M left even after signing all the ERFA's and RFA's. Even after allowing the generous $6M for the net cost of draftees and an injury fund for the 2007 season, we still have $15M for free agents and re-signs. This is a huge amount!

Note that the first year of most free agent contracts rarely cost more than $2.5M. For example, a four year contract with a $6M bonus and a $1M first year salary would have a cap hit of $2.5M no matter what the salaries or additional bonuses after the first year. $15M allows for the signing of as many free agents as the FO finds valuable enough to sign. Re-signs are always first priority. Most are signed before free agency starts, or are not signed at all.

Very nice cheat-sheet
for the offseason
that begins in February !

 

[pats1]

I try to wait until after the SB to discuss 2007 roster. However, I thought I'd see what we already have. See below for a 53 man roster that includes all those signed plus ERFA's (they have no choice), Santonio Thomas (an ERFA on the Practice Squad), and RFA's Gay and Baker who could be offered enough so that we'd sign him or get at least a 1st.

Santonio Thomas wouldn't be an ERFA since he's still on the practice squad. Once his practice squad contract is up, he becomes a street free agent. I do expect the Pats to re-sign him though.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Ah, yes, people have been blasting the Pats for the last eight months for not spending more of that money they have. Now that the Pats are spending it, rather than say, "I was wrong. I assumed the Pats were not going to spend it, but they did," these Negateers try to spin it so that they aren't allowed to criticize the Pats at all.

Which of course is not the case. Criticize them for not spending 2006 money it you wish, but if you criticize them before giving them a chance to spend it all, just admit that you jumped the gun and criticized then without merit.

I do understand why you and Felger and the others felt the need to criticize early in the year. You are like Dolphin fans. They had to get their bragging done before the season started, and you had to do your carping before the spending season ended.

At least the Dolphin fans had the grace to be quiet after being proven wrong. You guys are just asshats.

It isn't that you aren't allowed to criticise, but witht he cap spending as with your OC criticism, you are operating from a position of ignorance and it shows.

I feel like the color guard just marched the American Flag past at the head of the parade.

 

[fnordcircle]

I can't find this on Reiss' blogs or boston.com. Anyone have a link for the article referred to by the OP?

 

[pats1]

Ah, yes, people have been blasting the Pats for the last eight months for not spending more of that money they have. Now that the Pats are spending it, rather than say, "I was wrong. I assumed the Pats were not going to spend it, but they did," these Negateers try to spin it so that they aren't allowed to criticize the Pats at all.

Which of course is not the case. Criticize them for not spending 2006 money it you wish, but if you criticize them before giving them a chance to spend it all, just admit that you jumped the gun and criticized then without merit.

I do understand why you and Felger and the others felt the need to criticize early in the year. You are like Dolphin fans. They had to get their bragging done before the season started, and you had to do your carping before the spending season ended.

At least the Dolphin fans had the grace to be quiet after being proven wrong. You guys are just asshats.

It isn't that you aren't allowed to criticise, but witht he cap spending as with your OC criticism, you are operating from a position of ignorance and it shows.

Amen.

...Grr...10 characters...Grr...

EDIT: I went back to give reputation for that post, but I accidentally put it as negative! D'oh!

 

[PatsSteve1]

I would have liked to have seen every dime of cap space used to redo some guys so they weren't UFA's after the season. Last I knew it takes both sides to agree to a deal. That apparently didn't happen. It's too bad really but it is what it is.

 

[lutontown_fc]

I can't find this on Reiss' blogs or boston.com. Anyone have a link for the article referred to by the OP?

Its on the Reiss blog

Under the main heading of 'Stat Check' Dec 30th - sub-section 'Saturday deadline'

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/

NM

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Amen.

...Grr...10 characters...Grr...

EDIT: I went back to give reputation for that post, but I accidentally put it as negative! D'oh!

Space is doooooooooooooommmmmmmed!

 

[AzPatsFan]

Mike had an interesting comment that caught my eye in his Friday chat.

"I don't think anything will happen with the cap space, barring an unpexpected late change. The team tried with Samuel earlier in the year and couldn't get to a compromise position. Ditto for Daniel Graham. Not sure if any talks were started with Tully Banta-Cain. The salary cap is confusing and there are some intricacies that I think handcuffed the Patriots in trying to consummate these extensions. Not to get too technical, but the intricacies are tied to the high payouts the team had in the two prior years with the Tom Brady and Richard Seymour contracts."

If Miguel is about I wonder if he has any idea what it might be Mike is alluding to. Only thing I can think of is a limit on cash over cap bonus expenditures, but that would not be a league mandated situation to my knowledge, but perhaps an internal one. Still wouldn't make much sense though because they were prepared to give Deion an $8M signing bonus and I can't imagine either of the remaining three players in question (Samuel, Graham, TBC) would be warranting much more than that (if that).

If you recall, the cap for this year was penalized by NLTBE incentives in contracts that were in fact earned in 2005. If there was money available in the year earned those charges are paid out of that years surplus, I believe. If not, they are deducted from the following years cap.

Perhaps therre are some NLTBE incentives that may be earned by the end of the Titan's game, or even how wel they do n the playoffs. So the amount available is actually $3.5 less what these actually turn out to be, so it hard to know exactly what the final figure will turn out to be until the last game is played.

Just a thought. But I defer to Capologist Supreme, Miquel