Reiss on the McCourty personal foul

[reflexblue]

Again, if you think I'm wrong, post the rule stating that referees can't use the jumbotron, and I'll eat crow.

How do you like your Crow.... baked, broiled, fried, other.

 

[tobias funke]

What you feel here is isn't really relevant. What is relevant is how the rulebook reads.

The only thing relevant to me is that you didn't answer most of my questions.

I'll assume it's because you can't do so intelligently. Falling back on your "it's not specifically in the rule book" defense isn't doing yourself any favors. Is it in the rulebook that a referee can't carry a cellphone in case he needs to check with his mom about a call on the field? :lol:

Have fun arguing this one until your fingers bleed, because you're not going to convince anyone that you're right.

 

[upstater1]

I understand your point re: officials using every resource available to them to get the call correct. I believe it is valid and something the NFL should work towards.

With that said and before any type of NFL policy is in place, having officials look at the jumbotron would be substantially unfair to the visiting team. We would have beneficial jumbotron in favor of the home team after every play, and not once in favor of the visiting team.

The NFL deliberately stays away from using every resource because holding would be called on every play, because Wilfork was held on his facemask, because Banta-Cain had his facemask grabbed on his penalty.

Let me rewind this and see what you think.

It's the end of the game and Merriweather makes the game-ending interception. The Pats offense comes onto the field. While the refs are standing around, they see a replay of the pass rush that lead to the bad throw from Flynn. They see Tully's hands to the face of the O-lineman.

They decide to throw a flag.

The Patriots offense must leave the field and the game is no longer over.

Can you honestly imagine that scenario?

 

[Synovia]

The only thing relevant to me is that you didn't answer most of my questions.

I'll assume it's because you can't do so intelligently. Falling back on your "it's not specifically in the rule book" defense isn't doing yourself any favors. Is it in the rulebook that a referee can't carry a cellphone in case he needs to check with his mom about a call on the field? :lol:

Have fun arguing this one until your fingers bleed, because you're not going to convince anyone that you're right.

I answered both your questions.

 

[Fixit]

I'll assume it's because you can't do so intelligently. Falling back on your "it's not specifically in the rule book" defense isn't doing yourself any favors. Is it in the rulebook that a referee can't carry a cellphone in case he needs to check with his mom about a call on the field? :lol:

I guess I just followed the crowd at chow time, sir.

 

[tobias funke]

I answered both your questions.

No, you didn't. Maybe you should read my post again and see what you missed.

If you need some help, I'll put it up on the Jumbotron for you.

 

[AtivanPatsFan]

The NFL deliberately stays away from using every resource because holding would be called on every play, because Wilfork was held on his facemask, because Banta-Cain had his facemask grabbed on his penalty.

Let me rewind this and see what you think.

It's the end of the game and Merriweather makes the game-ending interception. The Pats offense comes onto the field. While the refs are standing around, they see a replay of the pass rush that lead to the bad throw from Flynn. They see Tully's hands to the face of the O-lineman.

They decide to throw a flag.

The Patriots offense must leave the field and the game is no longer over.

Can you honestly imagine that scenario?

Absolutely not. The NFL would be in shambles if that were to happen.

I agree with you and the other posters here that the officials shouldn't look to the jumbotron especially because situations like the one you described.

I was merely suggesting that a future-NFL may decide to implement some type of automatic review so there is less decided by "chance" and the game's outcome will be dictated by the players' skill on the field.

 

[Synovia]

No, you didn't. Maybe you should read my post again and see what you missed.

If you need some help, I'll put it up on the Jumbotron for you.

The answer to your question is this: "Slippery Slope Fallacy".


Yes, I answered both questions.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

The answer to your question is this: "Slippery Slope Fallacy".


Yes, I answered both questions.

There is no fallacy. You simply cannot interpose a reasonable intermediate step between your proposed interpretation of the rules and many of those mentioned. Especially since your entire argument depends exclusively on a "not in the rulebook" interpretation -- which almost by definition takes a continuum fallacy out of the equation.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Again, if you think I'm wrong, post the rule stating that referees can't use the jumbotron, and I'll eat crow.

Does the rule book say anything about crowd noise?

Perhaps we should have officials listen to the crowd and make decisions based on what they hear? :confused2:

Obviously tens of thousands of of people looking at the same thing can't be wrong, right?

Seriously dude. You are presenting one of the dumbest arguments I've heard on here in a long time. And that's saying something.

 

[BradyManny]

Again, a REVIEW is a VERY SPECIFIC THING IN THE RULE BOOK. A Review did not happen on that play. A referees conference did.

AGAIN, THIS WAS NOT A REVIEW.

Semantics, IMO - the spirit of making certain calls ineligible for review would still be violated.

Either way, what about the other 5 points I made. Those are all rather tangible.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

If he violated the rules that should be addressed.

However, I think the ref should be allowed to use the Jumbotron. I would also add that the refs should be able to at any time (not just the last 2 mins) review anything they want. I am not suggesting adding new things to the red flag.

But lets say a ref isn't sure if guy was in bounds or not. Ref can stop the clock and review it, then make his call. Not take a guess and then force the loser to decide if he wants to challenge.

Likewise if a ref want a slow motion look to see if a face mask was grabbed. We have the technology -- use it.

 

[upstater1]

If he violated the rules that should be addressed.

However, I think the ref should be allowed to use the Jumbotron. I would also add that the refs should be able to at any time (not just the last 2 mins) review anything they want. I am not suggesting adding new things to the red flag.

But lets say a ref isn't sure if guy was in bounds or not. Ref can stop the clock and review it, then make his call. Not take a guess and then force the loser to decide if he wants to challenge.

Likewise if a ref want a slow motion look to see if a face mask was grabbed. We have the technology -- use it.

Then what kind of calls would be reviewable? Surely not all. Even holding?

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

I answered both your questions.

http://www.fantasytailgate.com/nfl_rules.pdf
rule 15 section 9 (p 117 of 144)



>>>Section 9 Instant Replay
The League will employ a system of Referee Replay Review to aid officiating for reviewable
plays as defined below.<<<<<<

>>>>Note: Non-reviewable plays include but are not limited to:
1. Status of the clock
2. Proper down
3. Penalty administration<<<<


>>>>>Reviews by Referee. All Replay Reviews will be conducted by the Referee on a field-level
monitor after consultation with the other covering official(s), prior to review. A decision
will be reversed only when the Referee has indisputable visual evidence available to him
that warrants the change.<<<<<<
------------------------------------------------
The rule book seems to be saying that penalties aren't reviewable and that it must be done on the field level monitor. This would appear to exclude the Jumbotron.....
That being said, they can review illegal forward passes or other factual issues but not judgment calls....

 

[tobias funke]

Hey guys, remember all those times a coach has pointed at the Jumbotron so a referee could see what he was talking about?

Oh yeah, it doesn't happen, because coaches know the referee isn't allowed to use the Jumbotron to make a call.

Too bad they're not as smart as synovia.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

If he violated the rules that should be addressed.

However, I think the ref should be allowed to use the Jumbotron. I would also add that the refs should be able to at any time (not just the last 2 mins) review anything they want. I am not suggesting adding new things to the red flag.

But lets say a ref isn't sure if guy was in bounds or not. Ref can stop the clock and review it, then make his call. Not take a guess and then force the loser to decide if he wants to challenge.

Likewise if a ref want a slow motion look to see if a face mask was grabbed. We have the technology -- use it.

Won't ever happen because you're talking about delays that would result in 4 or more hour telecasts...

 

[Synovia]

http://www.fantasytailgate.com/nfl_rules.pdf
rule 15 section 9 (p 117 of 144)



>>>Section 9 Instant Replay
The League will employ a system of Referee Replay Review to aid officiating for reviewable
plays as defined below.<<<<<<

>>>>Note: Non-reviewable plays include but are not limited to:
1. Status of the clock
2. Proper down
3. Penalty administration<<<<


>>>>>Reviews by Referee. All Replay Reviews will be conducted by the Referee on a field-level
monitor after consultation with the other covering official(s), prior to review. A decision
will be reversed only when the Referee has indisputable visual evidence available to him
that warrants the change.<<<<<<
------------------------------------------------
The rule book seems to be saying that penalties aren't reviewable and that it must be done on the field level monitor. This would appear to exclude the Jumbotron.....
That being said, they can review illegal forward passes or other factual issues but not judgment calls....

Again, a "Replay Review" was not conducted.

 

[cupofjoe1962]

When the McCourty play ended they showed the replay twice.
It was after the second viewing that they tossed the flag.

There was no doubt the refs were watching the video on the
jumbotron in the lighthouse endzone.

As soon as the second viewing ended the flag got tossed.

I have a feeling we are going to be seeing far less replays going forward.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Taking off my Patriots hat for a moment, I think they made the right call though they clearly didn't follow the right procedures. So in the pantheon of bad officiating, it's not as bad as if they had made the wrong call and also not followed proper procedures. But the officiating crew (and our people in charge of showing stuff on the Jumbotron!) should face some discipline.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Again, a "Replay Review" was not conducted.

That's like saying a ref can call a facemask penalty even if the definition of facemask in the rulebook isn't met.

Coach: But ref, there was no grab or twist.

Ref: Right, but I'm not calling that kind of facemask.

Coach: Huh? What penalty are you calling?

Ref: I'm calling the Hochuli facemask.

Coach: But there's nothing in the rules defining the 'Hochuli facemask' as a penalty.

Ref: Yes, but there's nothing in the rules that says we can't make up our own penalties.

Coach: But there's an official list of penalties. It says, 'these are penalties' and then it lists them. And 'Hochuli facemask' is not on there.

Ref: Show me the place it says, "an no others may be called or made up during the game."

Coach: Huh?

Ref: See.