I Don't Get It

[Dutchmaster617]

Re: I Dont Get It

Belichick went to the media, the media didn't come to him. It's also obvious that stats shouldn't be an indicator as Moss had two drops that would have givin him 100 more yards. He had some drops in 07' too though, so I'm not going to say his he was attempting to 'drop the ball' so to speak.

I didn't see him running hard, going for the ball, or using his talent to advantages. I see average corners getting to him and laziness off the snap, that is my opinion but gladly we won't have to worry about it either way. I don't see how you can compare this season to the way he played in 07, unlike then I could name 5 guys I would rather have.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Re: I Dont Get It

That's bs.
Discuss the point if you want to disagree.
The fact is that I am onl;y repeating what I have said since the Jet game.
Are you trying to say that Moss was giving 100% and could be relied upon?.

1. Just admit you're a big management homer. You can't name one time you've criticized the management on this forum. Almost every time there is as big move on this team, you post some thread here supporting and defending the move.

2. Just because Moss has barely been thrown to in 4 games this year, is neither a knock on his effort, or any diminished skills. This team has used more multiple TE sets than anybody this season, twice more than the 2nd highest team. There is a clear shift in offensive philosophy and scheme. This isn't Randy Moss's fault.

Your backwards reasoning reminds me of how Ben Watson was bashed here for supposedly lacking skills, to explain why he was invisible in the offense. Watson is on pace this season for his best statistical year, on a team with a horrible QB. Looking at it now, it's clear it was a scheme issue that didn't throw to tight ends, rather than blaming the player for not getting passes thrown to him. The same thinking applies here. Randy Moss was no longer a big part of the scheme, it says nothing about his work ethic or any diminished skills.

 

[Water Boy]

Re: I Dont Get It

At the risk of starting another Moss thread, the thing I cannot understand is the pleasant attitude toward Moss. I don't understand why people who are unhappy that he is no longer here aren't plssed at the reason he is not here: Randy Moss.

I couldn't agree more Andy.

It pisses me off to no end that no one seems to give a rats ass about the concept of honoring a contract.

Makes me friggin sick.


Thanks Mods for not moving/merging this post. (wish you'd extend me the same courtesy.... just sayin)

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

If it was obvious, don't you think someone outside of RhodyPatriot (moss hater) would agree with you?

OK. Lets do it your way.
Moss was giving 100% and totally committed to the team, bought in and a team player.
Why did Belechick trade him?

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

You don't pay attention andy ...

Bill looks forwards ... not backwards.
he studies the past and relates it to the present and the future.

Bill tries to predict where the game is going and he wants to be the first to be ready for it.

yes i am implying the offense is better without him ... even Moss himself has acknowledged he has lost a step.

Let's say Moss was giving 100%.

It was not 100% of 100% andy ... it was perhaps 100% of 80% ... as in decline.
forget the speed factor ... his hand eye coordination is off ... that much we all can see.

80% of Moss (which its crazy to say he lost that much since just last year) still has value if he isnt a cancer.
He has value even if he is only a decoy.
There have been numerous amounts of circumstantial and real evidence that he was a malingerer and an attitude problem.
I don't get why everyone is trying so hard to overlook that.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Re: I Dont Get It

OK. Lets do it your way.
Moss was giving 100% and totally committed to the team, bought in and a team player.
Why did Belechick trade him?

The above quoted section shows just how AndyJohnson goes about it backwards. He *always* defends every Patriots move. Look back in the archives - the day or two after any big move, he posts a thread defending it.


Why did Belichick trade Seymour? Why did Belichick cut Milloy? You don't have to demonize Moss and completely fabricate criticisms about his work ethic or diminished skills, to explain why he was traded. Very simply, Belichick knew Moss wasn't coming back next year, that this year's offense is a very different offense philosophically, and he valued a 3rd round pick over 12 more games for a receiver who no longer was worth his salary in our multiple TE offense.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

I couldn't agree more Andy.

It pisses me off to no end that no one seems to give a rats ass about the concept of honoring a contract.

Makes me friggin sick.


Thanks Mods for not moving/merging this post. (wish you'd extend me the same courtesy.... just sayin)

Apparently you have to change your opinion, along with all the others who agree, because Ive been told that only RhodyPatriot (a Moss hater)agrees.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

1. Just admit you're a big management homer. You can't name one time you've criticized the management on this forum. Almost every time there is as big move on this team, you post some thread here supporting and defending the move.

2. Just because Moss has barely been thrown to in 4 games this year, is neither a knock on his effort, or any diminished skills. This team has used more multiple TE sets than anybody this season, twice more than the 2nd highest team. There is a clear shift in offensive philosophy and scheme. This isn't Randy Moss's fault.

Your backwards reasoning reminds me of how Ben Watson was bashed here for supposedly lacking skills, to explain why he was invisible in the offense. Watson is on pace this season for his best statistical year, on a team with a horrible QB. Looking at it now, it's clear it was a scheme issue that didn't throw to tight ends, rather than blaming the player for not getting passes thrown to him. The same thinking applies here. Randy Moss was no longer a big part of the scheme, it says nothing about his work ethic or any diminished skills.

Why would Moss be removed from the offense?
Are you seriously telling me that BB decided that trading top 5 production for bottom 5 production to 'spread the ball' was a better way to go?
Come on, thats just foolish.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Re: I Dont Get It

80% of Moss (which its crazy to say he lost that much since just last year) still has value if he isnt a cancer.
He has value even if he is only a decoy.
There have been numerous amounts of circumstantial and real evidence that he was a malingerer and an attitude problem.
I don't get why everyone is trying so hard to overlook that.

andy I'm not sure you have a point really.
Most fans pretty much get it was a multi faceted reason.

We can assign percentages of blame and/or stupidity to the parties involved.

But the team is moving on ... it appears that the deal had a shelf life of a trade deadline. Bill and/or Randy and/or Mr. Kraft had to apply knowledge with a bit of guesswork. There's really nothing to get IMO. there's been a lot of over reaction ... that much I am sure of.

We could plug many of the NFL stars into the team and have the same discussion.

there's multiple ways to skin the cat ... Bill skins it better than most.

 

[Water Boy]

Re: I Dont Get It

Apparently you have to change your opinion, along with all the others who agree, because Ive been told that only RhodyPatriot (a Moss hater)agrees.

Andy don't mind these Moss ballwashers. They are pathetic.

 

[shirtsleeve]

Re: I Dont Get It

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Re: I Dont Get It

At the risk of starting another Moss thread, the thing I cannot understand is the pleasant attitude toward Moss. I don't understand why people who are unhappy that he is no longer here aren't plssed at the reason he is not here: Randy Moss.
His entire season to date was an attempt to not be part of this team. His production was less than half of his production level since he has been here. Isn't it obvious he quit on the team?
Moss was traded becaue he made himself unwanted on the football team. The 3rd round pick was just what someone would pay to get him instead of waiting in line for waivers.
Randy Moss was never going to give an all out effort to the 2010 Patriots. Any anger for what might have been with a productive Moss as part of this team should be directed at the cause of that failure, and it is 100% Randy Moss.

Moss lost the Jets game for us, and then after that Brady didn't even trust him enough to throw him the ball, and the malcontent got traded like he wanted.

So here in Pats fantasyworld, all the clueless, whiny fanboys cry a river and bad mouth Kraft and BB and everybody except Moss.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Re: I Dont Get It

Before last season, the Dolphins did not want to bring back Jason Taylor because they feared he would impede Cameron Wake's development. They knew Taylor had a couple of years left in the tank while Wake would eventually grow into a feared pass rusher for years to come. I see a similar situation with the Patriots right now. I think they believe younger players like Tate, Edelman, and Price should have a bigger role in the offense and will provide some solid production for years to come. Compounding that is the fact that Moss is liable to blow up any time (if he hadn't already- we have conflicting reports) and quite simply is not a part of the future plans.

It's unfortunate. I love Moss as a player and I think the reward on his tenure here was far, far superior to the somewhat bitter ending. But if you look at the Pats' team, they have a ton of young players who they want to build together. Another season of Moss-dependency might increase their chances of winning the SB this year, but it's also another delay in the learning curve for other offensive up-and-comers.

Teams can overcome the loss of talented WRs. San Diego's offense is doing great this year. Pittsburgh won a SB after replacing Burress. Kyle Orton is leading the league in passing yards without Marshall. Meanwhile teams that have added big-name receivers are not exactly tearing it up. As well as Marshall and Boldin are playing, Baltimore and Miami have gone backwards offensively. Don't know how to explain it, but those are facts.

My criticism is the leverage the Pats had with desperate teams that may have given up more for Moss, and the fact that they're scrambling for a receiver now when they could have easily worked something out before the Moss trade. Now they are seen as desperate and other GMs will try and pry more draft value from them, whereas before they already had one of the game's top WRs. BB will not lose a blinking contest, so if the Pats had planned to bring in a younger WR, Jackson, or Branch, they've screwed up pretty badly with their timing.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

The above quoted section shows just how AndyJohnson goes about it backwards. He *always* defends every Patriots move. Look back in the archives - the day or two after any big move, he posts a thread defending it.

You are actually 100% wrong. I typically take the middle of the road not overreacting in any direction. That means that 'defend' criticisms in your mind because I dont join in one the overreaction.
What you would see if you really looked is when the reaction is overly negative I point out the reasoning that is contrary, and when the reaction is overly positive I point out caution. The fact that this board typically devotes 95% of its posting to being overly critical may explain your misunderstanding.

Why did Belichick trade Seymour?

Because he thinks he got a top 5 pick in the first year of a rookie cap. You know one of those top players that have become unaffordable before the rookie cap goes in/

Why did Belichick cut Milloy?

Because Milloys play declined, he had a better player to replace him with, and because Milloy refused a restructure that would have fit him under the cap.

{quote]You don't have to demonize Moss and completely fabricate criticisms about his work ethic or diminished skills, to explain why he was traded. Very simply, Belichick knew Moss wasn't coming back next year, that this year's offense is a very different offense philosophically, and he valued a 3rd round pick over 12 more games for a receiver who no longer was worth his salary in our multiple TE offense.[/quote]
And I think that is the most ignorant summary of the thinking of BB that could possibly exist.
How is it so hard to piece together that one of the most valuable players on team being traded for next to nothing after asking for a trade, pouting after the 2 biggests wins of the season, being accused of dogging it by the players covering him, reportedly fighting with the OC, and producing 45% of what he had was because he didnt want to be here, and stopped giving 100%??????
Instead we are fabricating excuses such as BB decided the best deep threat in the NFL was now worthless.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

andy I'm not sure you have a point really.
Most fans pretty much get it was a multi faceted reason.

We can assign percentages of blame and/or stupidity to the parties involved.

But the team is moving on ... it appears that the deal had a shelf life of a trade deadline. Bill and/or Randy and/or Mr. Kraft had to apply knowledge with a bit of guesswork. There's really nothing to get IMO. there's been a lot of over reaction ... that much I am sure of.

We could plug many of the NFL stars into the team and have the same discussion.

there's multiple ways to skin the cat ... Bill skins it better than most.

My point is that if Moss gave 100% he would still be here and the Patriots would be a better team.

 

[Water Boy]

Re: I Dont Get It

The above quoted section shows just how AndyJohnson goes about it backwards. He *always* defends every Patriots move. Look back in the archives - the day or two after any big move, he posts a thread defending it.


Why did Belichick trade Seymour?

The draft pick for Seymour is likely to be a top 5. You're an idiot if you don't see the value in this trade.

Why did Belichick cut Milloy?

Because he wanted too much money. How'd that work out for the Patriots in 2003 and 2004?

You don't have to demonize Moss and completely fabricate criticisms about his work ethic or diminished skills, to explain why he was traded. Very simply, Belichick knew Moss wasn't coming back next year, that this year's offense is a very different offense philosophically, and he valued a 3rd round pick over 12 more games for a receiver who no longer was worth his salary in our multiple TE offense.

Moss was traded because he is an @$$h0le and he was willing to become a cancer to get his way.

I just wish BB would friggin speak his mind for once and say that the reason Moss was traded is that he quit on the team. If Moss was the great player teammate that everyone is saying he is then they should have kept him.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Re: I Dont Get It

My point is that if Moss gave 100% he would still be here and the Patriots would be a better team.

You don't know that andy and neither do I.

That is dependent upon Randy's willingness to play his contract out.

He was unwilling to do that ... so I say what is the point.

But I will say was he no less or more selfish than Brady or Wilfork?

I think they were all equally selfish but 2 of them had more future value to the team.

... and I think that is the answer ... Moss had little future value to the team.

 

[Water Boy]

Re: I Dont Get It

I'm notifying PETA

 

[shirtsleeve]

Re: I Dont Get It

I do want to add that I personally would have really enjoyed seeing Lawyer and Rodney both playing on the same field at one time, even for one season.It would have been.....brutal. I mean that in the most excellent sort of way.

But it was not to be, except for that one preseason game in which few balls were thrown in the middle of the field against them. and when they were, the intended reciever got alligator arms in a hurry.

Alas.

Now continue with trashing the team and its owner and coaches for getting rid of a malcontent.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: I Dont Get It

He went from a top 5 producer to a something like a bottom 5 producer.
Its not like there was a change of philosophy that just got him the ball a bit less, his production was LESS THAN HALF.

TINY SAMPLE SIZE. 1 game where the ENTIRE offense played bad against a GREAT Jets defense and 1 game where the gameplan did not involve targeting Moss, at least not according to what the defense was giving. It'd be like going through any receiver's career and handpicking a few bad games to prove some stupid hypothesis. Like Fitzgerald stopped trying in the last 4 games of last season.

Are you really saying that BB looked at this and said Randy Moss is the same player as 07-09 giving the same effort, and I would rather not have hm on the field so I can throw it to a rookie or 2nd year player?

ALL you do is argue strawmen, it's ALL you friggin do.

I am confident that BB saw the same effort level in 2010 that he did from 07-09, yes. Moss is highly likely not the same player he was in 2007 physically, but he is the same effort wise.

You are now arguing that having Randy Moss on the team, playing full out giving 100% is bad for the team.
Really?

Hello strawman, how are you doing today? Good, and you?