Linebacker At 44 and Beyond or Early?

[mgteich]

This is 2009 all over again, except this time the 3-4 OLB talent is there. After all, the lack of 3-4 talent was the argument for waiting until 2010, rather than gambling on Matthews and Laurinitis, while we addressed the critical (?) needs at safety and NT with the pro-ready Chung and Brace. NOT
=======================================
I like Odrick a lot, but let us presume that he is gone.
========================================
1) We have the worst set OLB's and passrushers of any team with playoff potential in Banta-Cain, Woods, Ninkovich, Crable and Thomas (who will be gone). Sure, we can play with this set (with the addition or Burgess). We did last year. But this certainly is the NEED of this draft.

2) There are lots of 3-4 DE/OLB's of first round quality, or early second, but few pro-ready players likely to be there at 44.

3) We have four picks in the first two rounds, with one destined for a WR.

4) LET'S DO IT THIS TIME!!!
Let's draft one or two OLB's/DE's . We may need to trade a 2 to move up in the first. We may need to trade two 2nds to move up into the first (perhaps picking up a later pick, perhaps not).

How would feel adding Morgan AND Hughes (or Kindle or Graham or Griffin or Dunlop)?
========================================

BOTTOM LINE
44 and 119 are plenty of ammunition for getting a WR and a TE. We could even trade down with our remaining second, picking up a pick. But that is AFTER we get two front seven studs in the frist round (or perhaps the very early second). We can have ODRICK and an top OLB. Or we can have TWO top LB's.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I still think its DL in the first and WR/LBs in the second....I think those who are hoping for an LB early could be dissapointed

After looking closer at this draft I am betting Griffen or Dunlap joins the Pats as thier round 1 pick

 

[bakes781]

I agree with PATRIOTSFANINPA. The whole idea of taking advantage of a deep class is by waiting on them to fall to you. There's several OLB/DEs that should be available late on Friday. Austen Lane, Brandon Lang, AJ Edds to name a few.

 

[mgteich]

It is great to say that we should draft DL in the first.

I STRONGLY AGREE that we should draft Odrck even if we have to trad up a bit, but he may not be available.

Please list ALL the many DL's that you would draft at 22 in the first round.

I still think its DL in the first and WR/LBs in the second....I think those who are hoping for an LB early could be dissapointed

After looking closer at this draft I am betting Griffen or Dunlap joins the Pats as thier round 1 pick

 

[Ochmed Jones]

This is 2009 all over again, except this time the 3-4 OLB talent is there. After all, the lack of 3-4 talent was the argument for waiting until 2010, rather than gambling on Matthews and Laurinitis, while we addressed the critical (?) needs at safety and NT with the pro-ready Chung and Brace. NOT
=======================================
I like Odrick a lot, but let us presume that he is gone.
========================================
1) We have the worst set OLB's and passrushers of any team with playoff potential in Banta-Cain, Woods, Ninkovich, Crable and Thomas (who will be gone). Sure, we can play with this set (with the addition or Burgess). We did last year. But this certainly is the NEED of this draft.

2) There are lots of 3-4 DE/OLB's of first round quality, or early second, but few pro-ready players likely to be there at 44.

3) We have four picks in the first two rounds, with one destined for a WR.

4) LET'S DO IT THIS TIME!!!
Let's draft one or two OLB's/DE's . We may need to trade a 2 to move up in the first. We may need to trade two 2nds to move up into the first (perhaps picking up a later pick, perhaps not).

How would feel adding Morgan AND Hughes (or Kindle or Graham or Griffin or Dunlop)?
========================================

BOTTOM LINE
44 and 119 are plenty of ammunition for getting a WR and a TE. We could even trade down with our remaining second, picking up a pick. But that is AFTER we get two front seven studs in the frist round (or perhaps the very early second). We can have ODRICK and an top OLB. Or we can have TWO top LB's.

The front 7 on the defense has to return to dominance in order for us to remain an elite team in the NFL. Without a strong front seven, we are the Cardinals of the AFC, and can only win in shootouts.

Plan A:
At the top of the draft sits an elite 3-4 DE in Suh. It will cost 3 draft picks (#22, #44 and our next year's #1) and a boatload of cash to go get him. Starter from day 1 and a heck of a good guy off the field. (Knee must be medically cleared)

With #47 we take the best OLB on the board, probably Sapp.

With #53 we take OG johnson of Alabama.

Or trade #22 and #44 and move up to take ILB McClain. It still leaves us with a chance to get Sapp and Johnson.

Plan B:
We let the draft come to us and take an Odrick or Cam Thomas to play DE. Neither is ready to play immediately, but projects very nicely after a year in the system. (ala Warren)

Plan C:
We trade back. Several teams have two seconds in this draft. BB trades #22 for two more second rounders and leaves day 2 with 5 bodies instead of four. And from a talent perspective all 5 woulsd have near first round grades. (Sapp, Tate, Troup, Gerhart and Johnson)

Important note only plan A upgrades the front seven for the 2010 season.

 

[mgteich]

Consider Morgan and Odrick

The front 7 on the defense has to return to dominance in order for us to remain an elite team in the NFL. Without a strong front seven, we are the Cardinals of the AFC, and can only win in shootouts.

Plan A:
At the top of the draft sits an elite 3-4 DE in Suh. It will cost 3 draft picks (#22, #44 and our next year's #1) and a boatload of cash to go get him. Starter from day 1 and a heck of a good guy off the field. (Knee must be medically cleared)

With #47 we take the best OLB on the board, probably Sapp.

With #53 we take OG johnson of Alabama.

Or trade #22 and #44 and move up to take ILB McClain. It still leaves us with a chance to get Sapp and Johnson.

Plan B:
We let the draft come to us and take an Odrick or Cam Thomas to play DE. Neither is ready to play immediately, but projects very nicely after a year in the system. (ala Warren)

Plan C:
We trade back. Several teams have two seconds in this draft. BB trades #22 for two more second rounders and leaves day 2 with 5 bodies instead of four. And from a talent perspective all 5 woulsd have near first round grades. (Sapp, Tate, Troup, Gerhart and Johnson)

Important note only plan A upgrades the front seven for the 2010 season.

 

[patchick]

When I broke down the likely talent available at #22 vs. #44 (and I, too, assume Odrick will be gone by #22), I came to the conclusion that #44 was too long to wait for an OLB. So once again, mgteich, we're in agreement. This is a weird draft year indeed!

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Consider Morgan and Odrick

Does Odrick really improve our front 7? I think Morgan definitely improves our front 7 so I can see going after him.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

It is great to say that we should draft DL in the first.

I STRONGLY AGREE that we should draft Odrck even if we have to trad up a bit, but he may not be available.

Please list ALL the many DL's that you would draft at 22 in the first round.

I think the most likely are the two I mentioned plus Pierre Paul as a longshot,Paul is the type of player who could surprisingly high up or surprisingly low into the second round...he is tough to get a grip on.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Does Odrick really improve our front 7? I think Morgan definitely improves our front 7 so I can see going after him.

Yes, he does. That said, I think Morgan fills a specific void which adds to his value.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Consider Morgan and Odrick

Morgan is gone by 15

 

[mgteich]

I expect that he will be. We must still be prepared. Every top player can't be drafted by 15.

Morgan is gone by 15

 

[cstjohn17]

This is 2009 all over again, except this time the 3-4 OLB talent is there. After all, the lack of 3-4 talent was the argument for waiting until 2010, rather than gambling on Matthews and Laurinitis, while we addressed the critical (?) needs at safety and NT with the pro-ready Chung and Brace. NOT
=======================================
I like Odrick a lot, but let us presume that he is gone.
========================================
1) We have the worst set OLB's and passrushers of any team with playoff potential in Banta-Cain, Woods, Ninkovich, Crable and Thomas (who will be gone). Sure, we can play with this set (with the addition or Burgess). We did last year. But this certainly is the NEED of this draft.

2) There are lots of 3-4 DE/OLB's of first round quality, or early second, but few pro-ready players likely to be there at 44.

3) We have four picks in the first two rounds, with one destined for a WR.

4) LET'S DO IT THIS TIME!!!
Let's draft one or two OLB's/DE's . We may need to trade a 2 to move up in the first. We may need to trade two 2nds to move up into the first (perhaps picking up a later pick, perhaps not).

How would feel adding Morgan AND Hughes (or Kindle or Graham or Griffin or Dunlop)?
========================================

BOTTOM LINE
44 and 119 are plenty of ammunition for getting a WR and a TE. We could even trade down with our remaining second, picking up a pick. But that is AFTER we get two front seven studs in the frist round (or perhaps the very early second). We can have ODRICK and an top OLB. Or we can have TWO top LB's.

I agree completely, the good news is that this is a deep draft for OLB/DE and 3-4 ends (college DTs). The way the board is breaking I would:
#22 - Three options:

a) Go with OLB, this includes either smaller Colvin types or bigger Vrabel/McGinest types with a priority on the bigger players as they get harder to find later on. Potential names - Griffen, Dunlap, Graham, Kindle, Hughes
b) BPA if someone falls (Bryant, someone else)
c) Trade back​

There is a lot of DT (3-4 end) talent available in round 2, pass rush is a desparate need so might as well take the one they like in round 1.

I have gone back and forth or this but as of right now I want 3 of the 4 high picks to be on the front seven. If this means doubling up at OLB so be it. I could even be talked into taking all 4 of the front seven.

 

[bucky]

I agree with the premise of this original post. Obviously our front 7 needs improvement - particularly at OLB. However, there are a couple of points worth making:

1) There isn't a DeMarcus Ware out there. Morgan - questionable how well he'll play in space. Graham - ditto Morgan plus his shortage of length (no pun intended). Kindle is the best option, but I'm a little concerned with his judgment both on and off the field. Hughes, to me, is the best fit. But he still carries plenty of questions. So it's questionable whether a 1st round guy is really there.

2) We have to agree that it's hard to depend on a rookie to come in, learn the complex defense, all the new techniques, etc., and be a major contributor - especially at the OLB position. So our defense isn't going to become elite in 2010 no matter who we draft.

3) We still have Tom Brady and a good deal of firepower on offense. A solid OL. Some young WRs. This might be a case where fortifying our strength might be the best short-term approach while the young defense develops.

So that said, here is the plan. Reload the offense and pick up some defensive weapons along the way:

22 - trade back about 6-10 spots and pick up a 3rd round pick.

30ish - Jahvd Best. This is a guy who can score from anywhere on the field. Can line up in the slot and catch those bobble screens. Is also a dynamic kick returner. He is a much better, faster, and bigger version of what everyone claims Dexter McCluster is.

44 - Damian Williams. I'm not really sold on him over Benn or Tate, or anybody else for that matter. It's obvious though that the team needs a WR who can step in fairly quickly and has the ability to beat 1-1 press coverage.

47 - Aaron Hernandez. With Welker out for a while, the Pats should just bite the bullet and get a true "move" TE without pretending like he's going to be drive blocking and DL. If Hernandez checks out off the field, he's the guy.

53 - this is where we get our Burgess replacement and someone to groom for OLB. The names that come to mind here - Worilds, Misi, Gibson, Sapp (though I'm not crazy about him as a pass rusher), perhaps even Cunningham or Teo.

3rd round - AJ Edds. So this is the key to my whole strategy. I think Edds would be fine as a Sam-type LB. He'd be OK setting the edge and playing the run, great at dropping into coverage, and a decent blitzer. Will also provide some flexibility if the team switches to more 4-3.

119 - ideally, I'd love for Arenas to be available here. I think he'd be an upgrade over Wilhite as the nicker corner. But if not, we could go any position here. A developmental DL like Al Woods or CJ Wilson. Another TE or WR wouldn't hurt. Depth on the OL is always good. Perhaps yet another OLB convert type like Lindsey Witten or Arthur Moats.

This, to me, is the way to go in this draft.

 

[mgteich]

I understand. I've understood since we drafted Graham instead of a linebacker. I just disagree.

We had a need at OLB last year. We projected to have such a need in 2010 and 2011. Our answer was that we needed a backup NT and backup safety more. Somehow I think that Matthews might have learned our tough, tough defense. And if he wasn't the man, then we needed to develop someone else.

And what was the reason? The reason was that the 2010 draft was he place to draft our defensive help. The draft was so strong at DE/OLB!

So, here we are again. And our answer is to again hope that a developmental prospect at 53 or even later? I know that you may be right. We've been here for at least five years waiting to develop OLB's. The time is now!!!

And perhaps in 10 days I will again need to be part of a discussion on how Belichick's grand plan is to have a top 5 defense based on the LB play of Banta-Cain, WOods, Ninkovich and Crable. I surely hope not!

I agree with the premise of this original post. Obviously our front 7 needs improvement - particularly at OLB. However, there are a couple of points worth making:

1) There isn't a DeMarcus Ware out there. Morgan - questionable how well he'll play in space. Graham - ditto Morgan plus his shortage of length (no pun intended). Kindle is the best option, but I'm a little concerned with his judgment both on and off the field. Hughes, to me, is the best fit. But he still carries plenty of questions. So it's questionable whether a 1st round guy is really there.

2) We have to agree that it's hard to depend on a rookie to come in, learn the complex defense, all the new techniques, etc., and be a major contributor - especially at the OLB position. So our defense isn't going to become elite in 2010 no matter who we draft.

3) We still have Tom Brady and a good deal of firepower on offense. A solid OL. Some young WRs. This might be a case where fortifying our strength might be the best short-term approach while the young defense develops.

So that said, here is the plan. Reload the offense and pick up some defensive weapons along the way:

22 - trade back about 6-10 spots and pick up a 3rd round pick.

30ish - Jahvd Best. This is a guy who can score from anywhere on the field. Can line up in the slot and catch those bobble screens. Is also a dynamic kick returner. He is a much better, faster, and bigger version of what everyone claims Dexter McCluster is.

44 - Damian Williams. I'm not really sold on him over Benn or Tate, or anybody else for that matter. It's obvious though that the team needs a WR who can step in fairly quickly and has the ability to beat 1-1 press coverage.

47 - Aaron Hernandez. With Welker out for a while, the Pats should just bite the bullet and get a true "move" TE without pretending like he's going to be drive blocking and DL. If Hernandez checks out off the field, he's the guy.

53 - this is where we get our Burgess replacement and someone to groom for OLB. The names that come to mind here - Worilds, Misi, Gibson, Sapp (though I'm not crazy about him as a pass rusher), perhaps even Cunningham or Teo.

3rd round - AJ Edds. So this is the key to my whole strategy. I think Edds would be fine as a Sam-type LB. He'd be OK setting the edge and playing the run, great at dropping into coverage, and a decent blitzer. Will also provide some flexibility if the team switches to more 4-3.

119 - ideally, I'd love for Arenas to be available here. I think he'd be an upgrade over Wilhite as the nicker corner. But if not, we could go any position here. A developmental DL like Al Woods or CJ Wilson. Another TE or WR wouldn't hurt. Depth on the OL is always good. Perhaps yet another OLB convert type like Lindsey Witten or Arthur Moats.

This, to me, is the way to go in this draft.

 

[Marqui]

1) There isn't a DeMarcus Ware out there.

Yes there is.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Yes there is.

Really, who?

 

[zgotts]

I think you have to go OLB early in this draft.

Of the talent that will be there at 22, the top OLBs are MUCH clearer than the 3-4 DEs.

At OLB, you're really looking at Graham, Hughes, and Kindle (personally I like Hughes the most). I understand even these guys have their question marks, but I think it is agreed they have MUCH fewer questions than anyone that will be available at 44.

At 3-4 DE, who's sitting there at the top who will be there at 22? Odrick? Odrick doesn't really excite me. I think he's much less a sure thing at 3-4 DE than Hughes or Graham are at OLB. And after Odrick? There are definitely other guys who can fill that spot, but most or all of them will be there later in the draft.

More importantly, next years draft is going to be BIG for DE/DTs, and chances are high that we'll have a top 10 pick.

As for the draft as a whole, though it's definitely deeper than most, I really think it's worth it to trade 2 2nd rounders for another first and a 5th rounder (Green Bay would be the perfect trade partner).

The Patriots definitely have a LOT of needs, but I feel that rather than sit around in the 2nd round and hope the guys we want fall to us, why not trade up and get guys we KNOW are going to contribute?

My plan:

#47 + #53 to Green Bay for #23 and #151 (5th round pick).

#44 + GB 5th round pick to Philadelphia for #55 and #87 (2nd and 3rd rounders.

#22 Ryan Mathews
#23 Jerry Hughes/Brandon Graham
#55 Damian Williams/Eric Decker/Andre Roberts
#87 Arthur Jones
#118 Dennis Pitta

Certianly will take a lot of work to make it happen, but with so many teams interested in the 2nd round, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible.

 

[PatsCanDoIt]

Really, who?

Corey Wootton has received a lot of interest from teams drafting from the late 1st to our pick at 44. His healthy playing weight is 270 and he has the length. He has a real shot at becoming a Patriot.

 

[mcmurtry86]

Corey Wootton has received a lot of interest from teams drafting from the late 1st to our pick at 44. His healthy playing weight is 270 and he has the length. He has a real shot at becoming a Patriot.

Wootton ran a 4.92 and 4.97 at his pro day. Ware ran a 4.51 coming out of college, he was also about 250 lbs coming out of school (has since bulked up)

Really don't see Wootton as a rush-backer or any sort of OLB in a 3-4. Too slow, his hips are stiff and he doesn't have the first step needed to get to the QB.