Cassel/Vrabel trade revisited

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

On Twitter yesterday,Reiss had some interesting comments on last years trade of Cassel and Vrabel to the Chiefs for the second rounder of the Chiefs #34 pick.

He says that he got lots of disgruntled Pats fans who felt that only getting KC's 2nd rounder at #34 for those two players was dissapointing in many views but after the McNabb to the Redskins trade that Pats fans should look at this deal as being in the same type deal except you have a proven future HOF QB who probably has 3-5 good years left for just the 37th pick in the second round and possibly just a 4th in 2011

For those that think we were screwed by that trade,you might rethink it after seeing this deal,Cassel is still unproven as a starting QB on another team and Vrabel is reaching 35......good thoughts from Mike on that.

 

[Sicilian]

I think the success of the Cassel/Vrabel trade (or any trade involving players for picks) has to come down to what they do with the pick they get. From the Patriots perspective, if Chung turns into a great safety, then it's a backup QB + an aging OLB (who was still good enough to be a starter on this team) for a younger, top safety. That's a good trade.

If Chung doesn't pan out, it doesn't look as good in hindsight. I need to see two more years of Chung before I make up my mind on this trade.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I think the success of the Cassel/Vrabel trade (or any trade involving players for picks) has to come down to what they do with the pick they get. From the Patriots perspective, if Chung turns into a great safety, then it's a backup QB + an aging OLB (who was still good enough to be a starter on this team) for a younger, top safety. That's a good trade.

If Chung doesn't pan out, it doesn't look as good in hindsight. I need to see two more years of Chung before I make up my mind on this trade.

It's a little disingenuous to wait until after you have the benefit of hindsight to say whether it was the right call or not. You can use hindsight to decide whether or not it ultimately worked out, but not whether or not it was the right choice to make at the time.

FWIW, I had no problem with the trade and what they got for Cassel/Vrabel.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

A different perspective might point to the Cutler trade and suggest how well run organizations like KC, Philly, NE, Denver, and in this case the Shanahan led Redskins, don't insist on putting all their eggs in one basket. NE and Philly, both teams with Head Coaches calling the shots, "settled" for excellent "value" slots in the draft - Philly actually gets a better deal than NE did at #34 because #37 is going to be a very hot trading commodity under the new draft format.

 

[Sicilian]

It's a little disingenuous to wait until after you have the benefit of hindsight to say whether it was the right call or not. You can use hindsight to decide whether or not it ultimately worked out, but not whether or not it was the right choice to make at the time.

FWIW, I had no problem with the trade and what they got for Cassel/Vrabel.

Well, it's only disingenius if I then try to make a judgment on BB and the Pats based on the hindsight results. I didn't have a problem with the trade either, but if Chung becomes a bust (which I don't expect), then you have to list it as a negative net result.

 

[resdubwhite]

I'm not sure McNabb is going to the HOF. I mean I know I'm nitpicking the article.

But is McNabb HOF calibre?

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I'm not sure McNabb is going to the HOF. I mean I know I'm nitpicking the article.

But is McNabb HOF calibre?

1 SB Appearance and 4 NFC Championships in the past decade and yeah,I think he has a decent shot...not to mention of what he could do with an underperforming Redskins team for the next few years.

If he takes the Redskins to the SB he has a good shot,If he wins the SB with them then pencil him in.

As of RIGHT NOW? McNabb is not a HOFer and just outside the bubble of Favre,Manning and Brady ...BUT the next 3 or 4 years of continued productivity and winning will certainly up his chances and I think he will do extremely well under the guidance of Shanahan who is a better coach than Reid.

 

[Rob0729]

It's a little disingenuous to wait until after you have the benefit of hindsight to say whether it was the right call or not. You can use hindsight to decide whether or not it ultimately worked out, but not whether or not it was the right choice to make at the time.

FWIW, I had no problem with the trade and what they got for Cassel/Vrabel.

I posted in another thread last week how history judges most trades not based on the value at the time at the trade. The best examples in Patriots history are the Irving Friar trade and the trade of the pick which turned into Jerry Rice. At the time of both those trades, you can argue the Pats got the better end the trade.

In fact, you can argue at the time time of the trade, the Pats fleeced Miami for a second and third round draft pick for Friar who was a disgruntled, head case, underachieving WR who was on the wrong side of 30. He was such a problem that he got into a car accident while a game was being played and he helped to ruin the Pats' chances of even having a shot at making the Super Bowl competive vs. the Bears because he got into a knife fight with his wife. The problem with that trade was after he was traded, Friar found God and became a top WR for like 5 years. And then the Pats drafted Todd Rucci and a guy who never saw the field.

As for the Jerry Rice trade. The Pats traded a 1st and a 3rd for the 49ers, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. The Pats basically dropped down ten spots in each of the first and third rounds and picked up a second rounder for their troubles. Not a bad deal prior to any of those picks ever playing a single down in the NFL. The problem is that trade will go down in history as the Jerry Rice for Trevor Matich trade.

I do agree with your point that whether it was a smart decision at the time of the trade should not be adjusted based on what happens after the fact. The McNabb trade is a bit different because it just justifies that Cassel's value may have actually been around where he was traded for.

 

[mgcolby]

I was in the pissed off category last year when I found we didn't get a first round pick for him.

But after the McNabb trade I have to look at it differently.

 

[jmt57]

As I recall most thought the Pats would get more for Cassel at the time. The line of reasoning was that trading for Cassel, with a year of starting experience and a few years preparing before that was safer than drafting a QB that might not be able to adjust to the speed of the NFL. On the other hand some fans of teams that he was rumored to be heading to worried that the success of 11 wins was due to Belichick and the surrounding cast, and were concerned his career would follow that of Scott Mitchell.

One thing that is becoming very apparent is that there is much more to trades than 'which is better, this player or that draft pick'. How much time is left on a contract, and how much he is due in the first year now plays a very large part in evaluating a trade. If McNabb was making $6 mil rather than $11 mil this year, or if he had two years rather than one remaining on his contract then it's a completely different deal in terms of what Philadelphia can get for him. Teams knew the Pats not only had to trade Cassel a year ago, but that they had to trade him quickly - which had a large affect on his trade value. If Marc Bulger was due $3.5 million rather than $8.5 million he could have been traded rather than being cut; the Pats are most likely in a similar situation with Adalius Thomas.

Evaluating the Cassel trade is more complex than simply comparing Cassel and Chung's career stats three or four years from now.

 

[Zeus]

He was such a problem that he got into a car accident while a game was being played and he helped to ruin the Pats' chances of even having a shot at making the Super Bowl competive vs. the Bears because he got into a knife fight with his wife.

The Irving Fryar Story: A Knife in the Kitchen, A Fork in the Road

 

[patsinthesnow]

Seems like an equal trade. Only difference is McNabb is proven and Cassel's ceiling is unknown.

If KC gets weapons, I can see Cassel being in the Schaub, Rivers,Romo tier, but never tier 1 or tier 2. ( 1= Brady, Manning,Brees. 2=Roethlisberger Mcnabb IMO)

 

[PittPatriot]

Well, it's only disingenius if I then try to make a judgment on BB and the Pats based on the hindsight results. I didn't have a problem with the trade either, but if Chung becomes a bust (which I don't expect), then you have to list it as a negative net result.

True. People don't blame the Rockets for choosing Olajuwon but slam the Blazers for picking Sam Bowie.
Hindsight sucks for those who make crappy decisions.

 

[Fencer]

People don't focus enough on the fact that Cassel was under a franchise tag that caused him to be overpaid. I don't know how many millions more he got from Pioli than if he hadn't had that leverage, but I bet it was a few.

So Pioli didn't just give up the #34; he also gave up a few million dollars of additional cap room. That's worth a non-trivial pick right there.

 

[sbpatfan]

Keeping Cassel would have been a coin toss, either Brady goes down again and hes useful or he sits on the bench the entire year. His contract was up and after a pretty good year he is obviously going to want more than backup money. Trading him was the perfect scenario. Vrabel is near the end of his career and losing him is not the sole reason the Patriots missed the playoffs in 09.

The trade was completely worth it.

 

[RayClay]

The Irving Fryar Story: A Knife in the Kitchen, A Fork in the Road

Ha ha ...............

 

[RayClay]

Judging trades on the subsequent pick is the most ridiculous thing I've heard yet.

A pick doesn't have a personality or even a forty time. Some people cannot separate anything.

 

[eom]

it is honestly ridiculous people are still talking about that trade.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Judging trades on the subsequent pick is the most ridiculous thing I've heard yet.

A pick doesn't have a personality or even a forty time. Some people cannot separate anything.

Well Reiss discussed this on Twitter himself, so maybe he does not know anything and everyone here does?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

There were several posters here who "guaranteed we'd get 2 #1s for Cassell". Never did the research but I'll bet they completely trashed the guy in pre-season. Hyperbole is the engine of fan boards.