See what a fresh approach can do on D

[R_T26]

Rodney harrison recently said he had no idea why capers was here because he wasnt allowed to implement any of his things. But people have become so cliche on here with the this guy doesnt fit the system crap. Apparently only undrafted free agents and 40 year old tv show hosts can play lb in this system.

But be careful folks who want the pats to be better anf realize past mistakes. You will be called a "casual" fan unless you have multiple posts in every thread.

I swear you can find some people here who will be upset with the "pats hating media" that the Patriots are not favored in the Jets/Colts game.

For those whistling by the graceyard we can all agree tht the d was not up to snuff, whethet it is scheme or players bb has to take some blame.

And i would not want any other coach, but hes 58 and fresh ideas may be tough to come by. Thats why all fortune 500 companies always hire new people, so they dont stay stagnant.

 

[teknos1s]

I wouldn't mind seeing a change to the 1-gap myself. However, if personnel can be found to effectively run the 2-gap, then there is no reason to move away from it. The problem, lately, has been finding effective personnel.

exactly - as i was saying before in the ideal BB defense is a 2gap with huge lineman who can occupy space - but if you do this we need good LBs to fill the pass rushing void and to make plays...however unfortunately with big-sey gone and wilfork maybe on his way out we gotta figure out something on the Defense and this might mean moving to more one gap...and even then we dont have the speed rushers. ACK. not to mention the only linebacker we really got is mayo whos still semi-green but is good i must admit. too bad there are 4 LB positions and not 1 to be played... -sigh-

 

[pats_premi]

I wouldn't mind seeing a change to the 1-gap myself. However, if personnel can be found to effectively run the 2-gap, then there is no reason to move away from it. The problem, lately, has been finding effective personnel.

I'm confused. Before Rex Ryan this season, the jets were drafting the players for 3-4 - 2 gap scheme under Mangini to emmulate Patriots 3-4 scheme. They did not make many personal changes on the defense this season and yet they managed to run the 1-gap scheme this season.

 

[The_Riddler]

I am no expert, but most fans on this board seems to suggest that Patriots defense need speed rushers. I don't see any speed rushers on the Jets defense ? I guess it must be the scheme.

It is more about the scheme than the talent. Look at their front 7, they are doing this without the top NT in football. This defense without Jenkins is utilizing decent talent and having it play over it's head. It's the scheme that we lack..................and the person to put it in place........like Fat Rex

 

[pats_premi]

It is more about the scheme than the talent. Look at their front 7, they are doing this without the top NT in football. This defense without Jenkins is utilizing decent talent and having it play over it's head. It's the scheme that we lack..................and the person to put in place........like Fat Rex

With the scheme the competitors normally figure out how to counter attack (e.g. Patriots spread offense) unless the scheme constantly being updated. Is there any difference in scheme that Rex Ryan used in Baltimore vs Jets ?

 

[Scouse Patriot]

Are you surprised? Ryan's defence has always been highly inventive and play with tons of passion and confidence. Regardless off what you think of him and the Jets you knew he'd do something on that side of the ball.

Still, the Jets can f*ck off. I'm fine with Belichick and the way he likes to play. He has given this team and it's fans alot and now it's time to give him something back and thats support while he tries to mould another winning team.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm confused. Before Rex Ryan this season, the jets were drafting the players for 3-4 - 2 gap scheme under Mangini to emmulate Patriots 3-4 scheme. They did not make many personal changes on the defense this season and yet they managed to run the 1-gap scheme this season.

Rex brought in a few guys from the Ravens. On top of that, Revis really grew up in a hurry. His ability to cut off half the field allowed the Jets to drop an additional guy (usually Leonard) into the box.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I'm confused. Before Rex Ryan this season, the jets were drafting the players for 3-4 - 2 gap scheme under Mangini to emmulate Patriots 3-4 scheme. They did not make many personal changes on the defense this season and yet they managed to run the 1-gap scheme this season.

It's not too hard to adapt to 1 gap play. The 2 gap scheme is much more demanding in terms of defensive player responsibilities. The 2 gap scheme also requires more size in the linebackers who must learn to shed blocks just like down linemen do. So it was probably easier to transition to a 1 gap scheme than to try to find the 'ideal' 2 gap players.

I don't mind the 2 gap scheme, however I don't like the passiveness that the Pats defense has settled into over the years. They don't attack the QB and force pressure which is a MUST in a league where you practically can't touch the wide receivers without drawing a flag.

I think BB needs to hire another defensive genius to run the defense, a guy who can stand up to him a bit and say, I believe this will work, let's give it a shot. A guy who can return the NE defense to an attacking style of defense that forces turnovers. That kind of defense wins playoffs games as we have already seen in this year's playoffs.

 

[BelichickFan]

If the shoe fits.....

Um . . . what ?

 

[captain stone]

Can change your fortunes dramatically. Sadly belichick will hire another errand boy whose only football knowledge is learning bb's defense that has gone stale the last few years.

Ain't that the truth.

 

[BelichickFan]

I guess I just see it different from others - and I didn't mean any disrespect to anyone; for me, the Patriots have to earn me as a fan; I don't owe it to them and if I thought they were being run by mediocre, or less, people, I would root for someone else. Not in the sense of being a front runner but I'd move on with, say, Pioli if I liked him and though the Krafts and Belichick were clueless. Why someone would spend emotional energy rooting for someone they have no respect for is mysterious to me.

 

[Rob0729]

Can change your fortunes dramatically. Sadly belichick will hire another errand boy whose only football knowledge is learning bb's defense that has gone stale the last few years.

Ummm.... The last "errand boy" who became a coordinator for Belichick engineered the most dominant offense in league history. McDaniels was an "errand boy" who developed an offense that took nearly the entire season for people to figure out. McDaniels turned Matt Cassel into a Pro Bowl caliber QB in his first season where he started since high school.

Pees was an established veteran coach when he came to the Pats. The guy had 34 years of coaching experience before he came to the Patriots. He never coached under Belichick until 2003 when he was the LBs coach. He clearly is not an errand boy of Belichick.

If Matt Patricia is the Josh McDaniels of the defense, this defense has a chance of being special again. Why are people down on Belichick promoting from within. Look around the league and many of the most innovative and successful head coaches and coordinators are relatively new in their first few years on the job. Most of the proven veteran coodinators and coaches have been put out to pasture.

 

[Rob0729]

BTW, I am not a huge fan of Dean Pees, but I still believe that players need to execute and even the best coordinator in the world cannot overcome a true talent drain.

 

[R_T26]

Everyone here respects BB and me as a fan, i only root for the local teams. Im sure denver fans thought shanahan was a genius in the late 90's and early 2000's since he was a genius abd had won 2 rings. Im sure people thought he knew what he was doing when he drafted clarett. Sometimes people lose focus and firget wht made them successful. When the pats got ran over in 2002, bb brought back the 3-4, which amazingly at the time was considered an old school d that only pitt and the expansion texans were playing at the time. It was fresh, more players to choose from, and qb's were not use to it. After the pats success everyone jumped on the 3-4 bandwagon. Since then i have seen no creativity. Plus look at what those d's were built on. Draft picks from the mid 90's pats/ parcells drafts-Law, Bruschi,Willie, ted johnson. Many of the fa's were guys brought over from the jets that parcells had signed. So bb was a great chef using a nuclues of players who were discovered by someone else. These players were confident and aggressive which made someone mediocre like eugene wilson play much better.as those guys left bb has had a harder time finding fa's since he doesnt have the benefit of working with them in the past. The championship pats were built on the past, shrewd fa's, and nice drafting. Aside from kevin faulk, this was the first pats team of the decade where every player and coordinator Was picked by BB and what we got was a 10-6 team who couldnt beat a good team and got blown out in the playoffs.

 

[SanAngeloState]

It is more about the scheme than the talent. Look at their front 7, they are doing this without the top NT in football. This defense without Jenkins is utilizing decent talent and having it play over it's head. It's the scheme that we lack..................and the person to put it in place........like Fat Rex

I agree with this mr. riddler, if our scheme is so difficult to learn and have players for, then maybe we need to change it. Not to knock BB or anything, obviously, but we're looking pretty stale and passive lately.

How exactly do the colts draft low round guys, stick them in a defense and shut down the ravens like we couldn't? Ray rice didin't rack up any 83 yard runs against them like he did our #1 round NT, #1 round LB, and #1 round safety.

Mangini was definitely an errand boy sent by grocery clerks. Pees, I think was a decent guy but there wasn't much creativity there.

 

[Patjew]

I guess I just see it different from others - and I didn't mean any disrespect to anyone; for me, the Patriots have to earn me as a fan; I don't owe it to them and if I thought they were being run by mediocre, or less, people, I would root for someone else. Not in the sense of being a front runner but I'd move on with, say, Pioli if I liked him and though the Krafts and Belichick were clueless. Why someone would spend emotional energy rooting for someone they have no respect for is mysterious to me.

Because we root for the team. I care for the team more than any particular individual involved in it. Sometimes that means cheering for schmucks. But it's the team they represent that I care about, so my respect for those individuals is irrelevant. How else can you be a fan for decades? I'm from New England and I will root for the Patriots until I die or they move away from the area.

 

[Rob0729]

It is more about the scheme than the talent. Look at their front 7, they are doing this without the top NT in football. This defense without Jenkins is utilizing decent talent and having it play over it's head. It's the scheme that we lack..................and the person to put it in place........like Fat Rex

The Jets have invested a lot of money and draft picks to build that front seven. Ellis, Thomas, and Harris were all first round picks. The Jets paid top dollar for Pace and Scott. Revis was also first round picks in the secondary. Jenkins was arguably their second best player on defense after Revis (who might be the best defensive player in football right now), but let's not act like the whole Jets defense was devoid of talent other than Jenkins. The Jets have a lot of talent on their defense, far more than the Pats right now.

I think scheme may be part of their success, but they definitely have the players to run that defense.

 

[R_T26]

Ummm.... The last "errand boy" who became a coordinator for Belichick engineered the most dominant offense in league history. McDaniels was an "errand boy" who developed an offense that took nearly the entire season for people to figure out. McDaniels turned Matt Cassel into a Pro Bowl caliber QB in his first season where he started since high school..

that offense was more to do with talent then playcalling. When stallworth and gaffney are your 3rd and 4th wr's, your doing pretty good. And cassel had an undefeated team around him and a ridiculous easy schedule.

Even mcdaniels got figured out half way through his first year.

The team almost seems foreign to me this year, they were so predictable this year and destroyed the pats mytique. Remember pats dont lose back to back, dont talk trash to the pats, pats dont lose in december, bb and brady dont lose in the playoffs at home. Wont hetr this anymore.

 

[ATippett56]

Can change your fortunes dramatically. Sadly belichick will hire another errand boy whose only football knowledge is learning bb's defense that has gone stale the last few years.

It's more like talent. Hopefully the New England Patriots will sign Vince Wilfork to a long term contract. The foundation is there to rebuild the defense: Warren, Wilfork, Mayo, Chung or Sanders, Meriweather, Butler. The New England Patriots need to seriously focus on 3-4 outside linebackers in the 2010 NFL Draft. It's time to get rid of the malcontents (Adalius Thomas) and underachievers (Derrick Burgess).

 

[The_Riddler]

The Jets have invested a lot of money and draft picks to build that front seven. Ellis, Thomas, and Harris were all first round picks. The Jets paid top dollar for Pace and Scott. Revis was also first round picks in the secondary. Jenkins was arguably their second best player on defense after Revis (who might be the best defensive player in football right now), but let's not act like the whole Jets defense was devoid of talent other than Jenkins. The Jets have a lot of talent on their defense, far more than the Pats right now.

I think scheme may be part of their success, but they definitely have the players to run that defense.

I can't stand Rex-ausauras more than the next guy, but I guarantee you that he could have taken our current defense, with the athletic youth and speed that we have and made it into one heck of a defense.

Sure we didn't have an edge guy like Pace (can anyone say Clay Matthews?), but we do have a TBC and a Mayo, a Guyton and a pretty solid D-line that Rex would have maximized into a pretty good defense. It's the scheme, the coach, that's where it all starts. I look at that Jets front 7 and I am not overly impressed, they're good, but I wouldn't call them great. Rex has made them great. Give the man credit. He's a much better defensive coach than BB is right now, I think we all have to agree with that.

Rex's players would run through a brickwall for him, I question whether our players would do that for BB. I am wondering if his act his getting old in the lockerroom. That flat team out on that field against the Ravens was alarming.