Offseason roster (1/12)

[mgteich]

At any point in the offseason, I find it more useful to start with what we have, identify needed upgrades, review options, then cut, trade or acauire players. Cutting before we start doesn't work for me. For example, I would rather have Maroney than Chris Smith or even Green-Ellis. I would certainly prefer Maroney instead of not having a 5th RB.
=============================
The FIRST orders of business for the team occurs BEFORE free agency starts. The team will come to terms with some free agents who now have contracts with the patriots, and maybe a couple of street free agents. They will also tender and franchise who they will.

Personally, I would like us to bring all five of Bodden, Banta-Cain, Burgess, Faulk and Hanson back. If Burgess can be beaten out for one of the last spots on the roster, then fine. If Hanson can beat out, then fine. But let's start with as few holes as we can.

The disasterous situations at OLB and at WR stand out. Since the WR is about backups, I have confidence that we can find three wideout in free agency. After all, we will still have Moss and Edelman. We are much thinner at OLB.


OFFENSE
QB Brady, Hoyer, Stanback
RB F. Taylor, Maroney, Morris, Green-Ellis, C. Taylor
WR Moss, Edelman, Aiken, Ortiz, Moore, Jenkins
TE Baker, Agnone
OG/C Koppen, Mankins, Connolly, Wendell, Orhnberger, Bussey
OT Light, Vollmer, Kaczur, LeVoir

DEFENSE
DL Warren, Wilfork, Wright, Pryor, Brace, Richard
OLB Thomas, Ninkovich, Crable, Woods
ILB Mayo, Guyton, McKenzie, Alexander, Williams
CB Butler, Springs, Wilhite, Wheatley, Arrington
S Sanders, Meriweather, McGowan, Chung, Slater, Lockett

SPECIALISTS
K Gostkowski
P open
LS Ingram

PUP
WR Welker, Tate

FREE AGENTS WHO MIGHT BE BACK
CB Bodden
DE/LB Banta-Cain, Burgess
RB Faulk
P Hanson

 

[pats1]

At any point in the offseason, I find it more useful to start with what we have, identify needed upgrades, review options, then cut, trade or acauire players. Cutting before we start doesn't work for me. For example, I would rather have Maroney than Chris Smith or even Green-Ellis. I would certainly prefer Maroney instead of not having a 5th RB.

Having Maroney and not using him (i.e. 4th or 5th RB) would be pointless. He still does have some trade value.\

It's Chris Taylor, by the way, not Chris Smith.

 

[pats1]

Is it possible that he has already been told? Could this happen right away, so soon after the season ends?

When are players allowed to be cut from the team?

The beginning of the waiver period, in mid-February. I don't have the exact date on hand.

But Watson isn't under contract, so they can't cut him.

 

[pats1]

He has 1 year left to learn how to pass block or he'll be a vet minimum guy in the NFL.

Learning how to pass block would mean he's learning how to be a third-down back, and I don't really think that's his mold. He's not a big reception guy.

But I agree. This is now his fifth season. While he still does have some trade value (there'll be a team out there looking for a cheap, low-risk reclamation project), but he's a year or two away from being out of the league.

 

[WhiZa]

Cutting Springs would only save 100k this year, and cost 900k next year. For a starting veteran CB that's worth keeping.

Sanders would be more of a target with a savings of almost 2mil this year. 600k cap hit next year.

Lights cap hit seems almost too obvious not to rework somehow. If they need the cap space of course.

 

[WhiZa]

Watson not on this team is a scary proposition. He is a known target from Brady so teams have to respect that. There has been talk about about drafting a 1st round TE, but I do not see any of them that have the ability that he does besides better hands.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Watson not on this team is a scary proposition. He is a known target from Brady so teams have to respect that. There has been talk about about drafting a 1st round TE, but I do not see any of them that have the ability that he does besides better hands.

We can't waste a first round pick on a position we don't use in the passing game. If Watson wants to leave, so be it. We have Baker and can add a TE via free agency or later in the draft.

That first round pick has to be used to fill a need at OLB or OL, IMO.

 

[WhiZa]

We can't waste a first round pick on a position we don't use in the passing game. If Watson wants to leave, so be it. We have Baker and can add a TE via free agency or later in the draft.

That first round pick has to be used to fill a need at OLB or OL, IMO.

I agree, If he leaves we may have to turn into a power running team by default

 

[Patspsycho]

The beginning of the waiver period, in mid-February. I don't have the exact date on hand.

But Watson isn't under contract, so they can't cut him.

Yes I know.. I was thinking of other players who could be cut. I don't think AD will be cut unless a trade could absolutely not be worked out that prevents him from going to the Jets.

 

[pats1]

Yes I know.. I was thinking of other players who could be cut. I don't think AD will be cut unless a trade could absolutely not be worked out that prevents him from going to the Jets.

There is next to zero chance that he is on the team this season. From listening to PFW in Progress today, it sounds as if AD took certain members of the team with him when he went rogue mid-season, such as Shawn Springs. He divided the locker room. There was another caller into 98.5 on Monday who said that, when Pepper was yelling at the defense on the sidelines during the Ravens game, AD got up, walked away, and had a few rookies follow him - Pepper was furious.

BB obviously knows that he had locker room problems this season, and that their genesis might have been AD (who came into the season ticked off with the Seymour trade, underperformed, was benched, and went the rest of the way openly questioning BB - it was obvious insubordination).

There's just no way that BB will let that go for another season. He would have cut him mid-season if the cap had allowed it.

Remember the "Sorry Shawn...Sorry AD" thing? PFW in Progress believes that Springs was firmly in AD's camp (other shows have reported that AD had the support of a number of the players in the locker room in his questioning of the coaches) until BB came to Springs after the Dolphins game and had him come back to play (he hadn't in a month) because he simply needed him to.

 

[Patspsycho]

There is next to zero chance that he is on the team this season. From listening to PFW in Progress today, it sounds as if AD took certain members of the team with him when he went rogue mid-season, such as Shawn Springs. He divided the locker room. There was another caller into 98.5 on Monday who said that, when Pepper was yelling at the defense on the sidelines during the Ravens game, AD got up, walked away, and had a few rookies follow him - Pepper was furious.

BB obviously knows that he had locker room problems this season, and that their genesis might have been AD (who came into the season ticked off with the Seymour trade, underperformed, was benched, and went the rest of the way openly questioning BB - it was obvious insubordination).

There's just no way that BB will let that go for another season.

Perhaps I phrased it wrong. What I meant to say is that my guess is that BB will try his best to trade AD, to prevent him from going to the Jets, but if such a thing doesn't work out, then he would get cut as a last resort.

I agree with you that he is gone for good. His "veteran" presence undercuts the ability of the youth corp (e.g., Mayo) from asserting leadership.

 

[The Dynasty]

Maroney is a fifth-year player. "Potential" doesn't matter anymore.

Maroney had a better year this year than most people think. He had more rushing yards than LT, Felix Jones, Julius Jones, Ronnie Brown and LeSean McCoy.

 

[mgteich]

Please stop confusing folks with facts. Maroney isn't fit to be our #3 RB. The fact that Belichick starts him is a misjudgement by Belichick.

Maroney had a better year this year than most people think. He had more rushing yards than LT, Felix Jones, Julius Jones, Ronnie Brown and LeSean McCoy.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Offense

QB: no changes
RB: First of all, the Pats need to make up their mind with Maroney. Give him a roll and stick to it. Stop making him the starter for a few weeks and then not give him the ball at all for a couple of weeks. Maroney stays as there is no reason to trade him or cut him, Taylor gets cut, Morris gets cut and Faulk stays. Need to draft a RB.
WR: Need receivers badly. Tate is done as I'm sure his confidence will be shot. Edelman will be the next Ricky Proehl.
TE: My guess is that Watson wants to leave because of his limited role in the offense. Get a TE in FA or draft one in the later rounds.
T: Vollmer must be a starter in 2010. Draft a RT to replace Kaczur.
G: Re-sign Mankins. Let Neal walk and replace him through FA or draft
C: I'd cut Koppen and replace in though FA or draft

Defense

DE: Green can take a hike. I can't even remember if he played in 2010. Draft a DE or get one through FA
DT: Re-sign Wilfork because their isn't anyone else to replace him. Wouldn't surprise me if Brace was cut like O'Connell was last season.
OLB: Sign Julius Peppers and draft a pass rusher. Crable won't make the team. Woods will be tendered extremely low and will probably stick around for special teams.
MLB: I thought Guyton could be the answer but he clearly isn't. Draft an ILB or trade for one during FA. I don't have any confidence in McKenzie for 2010.
CB: Bodden stays because he should come cheap, cut Springs. Butler should be their #1 CB going into 2010.
S: Need a true strong safety as I don't have confidence Chung is going to be that guy. I fear he's going to end up as a career special teamer.

 

[The Dynasty]

Please stop confusing folks with facts. Maroney isn't fit to be our #3 RB. The fact that Belichick starts him is a misjudgement by Belichick.

I am not saying he is better than any of the backs I named, what I am saying is that he actually had a pretty productive season. If he is the feature back getting consistently 10-15 carries a game I feel like he will be even better. He will be able to get in a rhythm and not have to worry about doing too much to try and get the ball more than the other RBs. I think we need to let either Morris or Taylor go, personally I would let Morris go and have Maroney be the feature back and Taylor the short yardage back and then Faulk as the 3rd back. How many teams use the running back by committee in the NFL? It just isnt successful.

 

[pats1]

Offense

QB: no changes
RB: First of all, the Pats need to make up their mind with Maroney. Give him a roll and stick to it. Stop making him the starter for a few weeks and then not give him the ball at all for a couple of weeks. Maroney stays as there is no reason to trade him or cut him, Taylor gets cut, Morris gets cut and Faulk stays. Need to draft a RB.
WR: Need receivers badly. Tate is done as I'm sure his confidence will be shot. Edelman will be the next Ricky Proehl.
TE: My guess is that Watson wants to leave because of his limited role in the offense. Get a TE in FA or draft one in the later rounds.
T: Vollmer must be a starter in 2010. Draft a RT to replace Kaczur.
G: Re-sign Mankins. Let Neal walk and replace him through FA or draft
C: I'd cut Koppen and replace in though FA or draft

Defense

DE: Green can take a hike. I can't even remember if he played in 2010. Draft a DE or get one through FA
DT: Re-sign Wilfork because their isn't anyone else to replace him. Wouldn't surprise me if Brace was cut like O'Connell was last season.
OLB: Sign Julius Peppers and draft a pass rusher. Crable won't make the team. Woods will be tendered extremely low and will probably stick around for special teams.
MLB: I thought Guyton could be the answer but he clearly isn't. Draft an ILB or trade for one during FA. I don't have any confidence in McKenzie for 2010.
CB: Bodden stays because he should come cheap, cut Springs. Butler should be their #1 CB going into 2010.
S: Need a true strong safety as I don't have confidence Chung is going to be that guy. I fear he's going to end up as a career special teamer.

Not exactly an optimistic view, but I don't think you're all that far off on Chung, Brace, McKenzie, Tate, Edelman, Crable, Guyton, Green, and Maroney. Fairly reasonable calls all around. I'm more optimistic with Edelman and Chung.

 

[mgteich]

So just on offense, you expect us to
draft a RB
draft a TE or find on in free agency
draft a RT
draft or find a starting center in free agency
draft or find a starting RG trhrough free agency or the draft.

All these needs will not be met.

Offense

QB: no changes
RB: First of all, the Pats need to make up their mind with Maroney. Give him a roll and stick to it. Stop making him the starter for a few weeks and then not give him the ball at all for a couple of weeks. Maroney stays as there is no reason to trade him or cut him, Taylor gets cut, Morris gets cut and Faulk stays. Need to draft a RB.
WR: Need receivers badly. Tate is done as I'm sure his confidence will be shot. Edelman will be the next Ricky Proehl.
TE: My guess is that Watson wants to leave because of his limited role in the offense. Get a TE in FA or draft one in the later rounds.
T: Vollmer must be a starter in 2010. Draft a RT to replace Kaczur.
G: Re-sign Mankins. Let Neal walk and replace him through FA or draft
C: I'd cut Koppen and replace in though FA or draft

Defense

DE: Green can take a hike. I can't even remember if he played in 2010. Draft a DE or get one through FA
DT: Re-sign Wilfork because their isn't anyone else to replace him. Wouldn't surprise me if Brace was cut like O'Connell was last season.
OLB: Sign Julius Peppers and draft a pass rusher. Crable won't make the team. Woods will be tendered extremely low and will probably stick around for special teams.
MLB: I thought Guyton could be the answer but he clearly isn't. Draft an ILB or trade for one during FA. I don't have any confidence in McKenzie for 2010.
CB: Bodden stays because he should come cheap, cut Springs. Butler should be their #1 CB going into 2010.
S: Need a true strong safety as I don't have confidence Chung is going to be that guy. I fear he's going to end up as a career special teamer.

 

[Patspsycho]

Offense

QB: no changes
RB: First of all, the Pats need to make up their mind with Maroney. Give him a roll and stick to it. Stop making him the starter for a few weeks and then not give him the ball at all for a couple of weeks. Maroney stays as there is no reason to trade him or cut him, Taylor gets cut, Morris gets cut and Faulk stays. Need to draft a RB.
WR: Need receivers badly. Tate is done as I'm sure his confidence will be shot. Edelman will be the next Ricky Proehl.
TE: My guess is that Watson wants to leave because of his limited role in the offense. Get a TE in FA or draft one in the later rounds.
T: Vollmer must be a starter in 2010. Draft a RT to replace Kaczur.
G: Re-sign Mankins. Let Neal walk and replace him through FA or draft
C: I'd cut Koppen and replace in though FA or draft

Defense

DE: Green can take a hike. I can't even remember if he played in 2010. Draft a DE or get one through FA
DT: Re-sign Wilfork because their isn't anyone else to replace him. Wouldn't surprise me if Brace was cut like O'Connell was last season.
OLB: Sign Julius Peppers and draft a pass rusher. Crable won't make the team. Woods will be tendered extremely low and will probably stick around for special teams.
MLB: I thought Guyton could be the answer but he clearly isn't. Draft an ILB or trade for one during FA. I don't have any confidence in McKenzie for 2010.
CB: Bodden stays because he should come cheap, cut Springs. Butler should be their #1 CB going into 2010.
S: Need a true strong safety as I don't have confidence Chung is going to be that guy. I fear he's going to end up as a career special teamer.

Brace is not going to get cut. Technique and leverage are easily taught. He doesn't lack for effort. He's transitioning from 1 gap 4-3 to 2 gap 3-4. Satz had an excellent thought that he could be utilized as DE, which is closer to his natural talent as a 3 tech.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

So just on offense, you expect us to
draft a RB
draft a TE or find on in free agency
draft a RT
draft or find a starting center in free agency
draft or find a starting RG trhrough free agency or the draft.

All these needs will not be met.

They can sign anybody they want in FA and have a ton of picks. Shouldn't be that difficult.

 

[goldspeed101]

dare I say AD to Denver for Marshall and maybe a 3rd?