Is Maroney officially a bust yet?

[JackBauer]

Cousin, I said you win. I agree with everything you say. You are way smarter than I will ever be. I can see that now. I have changed my opinion. Your points are well beyond any logical retort I might consider. Why should I let my facts be more of a consideration than yours? James Sanders is a way above average Safety. I am leaning to maybe even better than that.
DW Toys

Thank you for proving my point. By the way, any time you decide to post some facts will be the first.

 

[bigfandan]

A bust would be someone like Ki Jana Carter or Cedric Benson. .....
Using your Joseph Addai standard the evidence is clear: Maroney is no doubt an NFL-caliber running back. This may be a shock to you, but if he can stay healthy, he's already proven all he needs to prove.

I dislike Colts and it pains me to write this. But Addai is a more durable runner and much bigger receiving threat. He is all down back. Maroney is not.

The 3-year stat below shows Addai is twice as productive (touches/yards).
Note 50% of Maroney's yards came in his best year, the 2007 season, coincidentally with the GREATEST-PASSING-SEASON-EVER (Brady-Moss-both grabbing TD records). (passing set up the run = inflated stats for Maroney? spread formation =helping a rb's ypc? I thought so)

NFL offical stats for last 3 seasons:
Addai:
Carries / Yards / TDs
642 / 2697 / 27
Maroney:
Carries / Yards / TDs
388 / 1673 / 12 (Note: 185 / 835 from 2007 was assisted greatly by the Brady-to-Moss-TD-SEASON)
Receiptions / yards
Addai 106 / 895
Maroney 26 / 310
Touches / yards
Addai 748 / 3592
Maroney 414 / 1983
1000 yard seasons:
Addai 2
Maroney 0

Last season an injured Addai still outgained Maroney 5:1. BTW, Maroney's YPC dropped to 3.3 last season. He is not showing progress as a runner nor is he improving blocking or receiving skills.

 

[Deus Irae]

I dislike Colts and this pains me to write this. But Addai is a more durable runner and much bigger receiving threat. He is all down back. Maroney is not.

The 3-year stat below shows Addai is twice as productive (touches/yards).
Note 50% of Maroney's yards came in had his best year, the 2007 season, coincidentally with the GREATEST-PASSING-SEASON-EVER (Brady-Moss-both grabbing TD records). (inflated stats for Maroney?)

NFL offical stats for last 3 seasons:
Addai:
Carries / Yards / TDs
642 / 2697 / 27
Maroney:
Carries / Yards / TDs
388 / 1673 / 12 (Note: 185 / 835 from 2007 was assisted greatly by the GREATEST-PAssing_SEASON)
Receiptions / yards
Addai 106 / 895
Maroney 26 / 310
Touches / yards
Addai 748 / 3592
Maroney 414 / 1983
1000 yard seasons:
Addai 2
Maroney 0

Last season an injured Addai still outgained Maroney 5:1. BTW, Maroney's YPC dropped 3.3 last season. He is not showing progress as a runner nor is he improving blocking or receiving skills. :banned:

Maroney was trying to play through an injury that eventually required surgery. He was unable to do so. However, your taking his 3.3 ypc for that specific period of time is disingenuous. Besides his shoulder injury, he was also running behind an offensive line that was doing a pretty poor job until Neal came back.

In the Chiefs game, Maroney had 10 carries for 51 yards. Morris had 10 carries for 53 yards. Jordan had 2 carries for 6 yards.

In the Jets game, Maroney had 8 carries for 16 yards. Morris had 8 carries for 0 yards. Jordan had 11 carries for 62 yards.

In the Dolphins game, Maroney didn't play. Morris had 9 carries for 27 yards. Jordan had 6 carries for 22 yards.

In the San Francisco game, Maroney had 10 carries for 26 yards. Morris had 16 carries for 63 yards. Jordan had 5 carries for 16 yards.

That was Maroney's last game of the season.

In other words, none of the running backs were able to get consistent yardage at the beginning of the season. Using that small sample to belittle an injured Maroney is just idiotic.

 

[bigfandan]

Maroney was trying to play through an injury that eventually required surgery. He was unable to do so. However, your taking his 3.3 ypc for that specific period of time is disingenuous. Besides his shoulder injury, he was also running behind an offensive line that was doing a pretty poor job until Neal came back.

In other words, none of the running backs were able to get consistent yardage at the beginning of the season. Using that small sample to belittle an injured Maroney is just idiotic.

Yeh, when it does not work, blame others. RB is about toughness and leardership. Maroney's whole career has been shirking from leadership. He is a supplemental player, when others are clicking he runs well; when Brady went down and Cassell was green and team needed leadersip from rb, he struggled/could not get it done. As been pointed out, he did not do anything special over Morris and Jordan. He does not perform like a 1st round pick.

I didn't mention OL execuses for Addai's numbers, becuase Addai played tough and got it done.
Didn't Indy have most OL injuries in the league? were not half of their OL starters 3rd strings and rookies?

Why is objectivity idoitic? you just can't see the truth on Maroney.

 

[JSn]

Yeh, when it does not work, blame others. RB is about toughness and leardership. Maroney's whole career has been shirking from leadership. He is a supplemental player, when others are clicking he runs well; when Brady went down and Cassell was green and team needed leadersip in running offense, he struggled.

Didn't Indy had most injuries on OL, did not they use 3rd strings and rookies to start OL? I forgot to mention these execuses for Addai's numbers?

Why is objectivity idoitic? Keifer, you just can't see the truth on Maroney.

I don't know what to make of LoMo, yet, but this argument is silly. He was injured.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yeh, when it does not work, blame others. RB is about toughness and leardership. Maroney's whole career has been shirking from leadership. He is a supplemental player, when others are clicking he runs well; when Brady went down and Cassell was green and team needed leadersip in running offense, he struggled, could not get it done, and bailed.

Didn't Indy have most OL injuries in the league? were not half of their OL starters 3rd strings and rookies? I forgot to mention these execuses for Addai's numbers, becuase Addai had leadersip and toughness and got it done.

Why is objectivity idoitic? Keifer, you just can't see the truth on Maroney.

Ok, so what I'm seeing here is that you're just a troll, and not a particularly brilliant one either. So, rather than read more of your gibberish, I'm going to exercise my right as an Ian fearing Patsfanican and casually add you to my ignore list. You have a good life, and I hope the bridge you live under is dry in bad weather.

 

[DaBruinz]

I think it has to do with style of running. He is always trying to break it to the outside like that's gonna get him further down the field. But truth is, I don't think he's ever had a HUGE run before. Most of his success is in the screen because the field is more open, which even though that fits us, I think any JAG RB can do well in our screen plays.

What do you consider a "HUGE" run? I think anything over 30 yards is a "huge" run. Granted, Maroney only has 3 of those. But he's shown he CAN do it. Last year, the 1st few games, the O-line was horrible and none of the RBs did much of anything. It wasn't until Neal got back that things got settled down. And then, the Pats were doing more in-line blocking than zone blocking.

Maroney was at his best during his rookie year. When they weren't zone blocking as much. I think they need to go back to that full time.

 

[DaBruinz]

Yeah, I'd say he's a bust. Too many injuries and dancing. Maybe a decent back but he's going to have a "nothing special" career. It's too bad because so many people were high on him at the draft, i believe it was Shanahan who said he had the tools to be on of the best backs he'd ever seen. The Colts were also high on him and at the time, they thought they had to "settled" on Addai. I was more happy with BJGE's running style compared to Maroney's.

Yes, and Addai has been as injured as Maroney.

As for BJGE, he did so much last year. Let me tell you. Being inactive for the last 4 games of the season really showed me what he could do...

 

[DaBruinz]

No doubt Maroney is a bust. With a potent passing offense and TB, Moss, Welker being the very best of their positions (QB, Wideout, slot), the running game can be successful with even average talent. You could argue the team has been more successful with Morris, Jordan and BJEG. Maroney has performed like a 5th rounder so far; he is not worthy the 1st round pick the team wasted on him.

Look Joseph Addai, who was picked after Maroney in the same class. The guy is lethal in Colts offense. No doubt he benefited also from a potent passing offense with Manning and Wayne. But Addai has consistently gained 6-7 yards a pop; he carries colts offense especially in playoff. The guy is also a first-down machine, converting like 75-80% of third down carries into first downs. He is an excellent receiving threat coming out of backfield. Remember he turn a dump-off pass into 72 yard touchdown catch and run just before half-time in the last game against Pats?

Addai is a much better runner, better blocker, much much better receiver than Maroney. Addai was drafted after Maroney, costs less, and played much bigger role to Colts offense than Maroney has ever been able to achieve.

Maroney was drafted in the first round, but can easily been replaced by guys like Jordan, BJGE. His contribution to Pats is limited. Therefore he is a bust. No doubt in my mind.

There were ramblings about Maroney and Chad Jackson's work ethics and maturity a couple years ago. Maybe the source of lack of progress.

You clearly don't know what you are talking about regarding Addai. If Addai is that much better of a runner, why is his YPC a whopping 4.2. Yes, that's right, its LESS than Maroney's. Addai has gotten progressively worse. While, until this year, Maroney's was going UP.

Maroney isn't used in the passing game because they have Faulk. Though, the times he has been, he's busted some big receptions. Maroney is actually very under-rated as a pass blocker.

As for your lovefest on Addai, could you please provide where you got your stats from?

Just as an aside, what you and many people seem to forget about Addai is that he was 23 when he was drafted and had been in college for 5 years. That is a lot different than being 21 and only having 3 years in college. Addai will be 26 in May. Maroney just turned 24.

 

[DaBruinz]

Absolutely. He will not change a running style that he has done all his life.
He was never a full time back. His trade value is as high as it will ever be. They did not bring Taylor in to sit on the bench end of story! Share?........ Yes, Taylor and Morris.
Cousins, if you believe that there will be a three way share of touches, I beg to differ.
Send him to RB staved and the "we need weapons" McNabb pouting Eagles for Gocong which is a very fair trade. Gocong could be the new Vrabel. The Eagles have three talented OLBs.
Next years value is nada cousins.
DW Toys

You do realize that the claim that Maroney was "never a full time back" is BS, right? You don't seem to understand that the Golden Gophers are primarily a running team. When this argument was brought up previously, I clearly pointed out that its impossible for a team that put up over 600 rushing plays a year (on average from 2002 to 2005) to have a "full time back." Not to mention that they purposely rotated their backs, using as many as 5 in a game. How can one fault Maroney for that? How can you complain about Maroney steadily increasing his carries from 162 carries as a freshman to 281 as a junior? Its not like there were a bunch of stiffs behind him in 2005.

They brought Taylor in because, if you have followed the league AT ALL over the last 2 years, there have been NUMEROUS RBs going down with injuries. Last year Morris, Jordan and Maroney were all down at one point. Denver employed something like 9 RBs last year. Other teams had issues with injured RBs as well. Taylor will relegate Morris to the bench behind Faulk. And Morris will probably spell Faulk some on 3rd downs.

Your trade is horrible and ill-thought out. How can Gocong be the next Vrabel when Gocong hasn't ever been a TE and he's currently playing LOLB for the Eagles. Where does that translate to on the Pats? SILB? LOLB? The schemes are completely different. And why would the Eagles want to deplete their LB corp to help the Pats?

 

[PATSNUTme]

I haven't read all the post but are there + or - "made of glass" comments?

 

[DaBruinz]

BINGO! You said it. Maroney's biggest issue is lack of vision and feel. You can't keep piling into the back of your O-Linemen if there is a hole left or right with just one sideways step.
You can't teach the kid this. He has it or he doesn't.

The other thing important for a back is durability. No way does that fit Maroney. Even if he comes in and plays this year, I suspect it will be mediocre at best.

So let's DO A GM evaluation.You judge:
1-Speed?-Yes
2-Nice kid?-Yes
3-Vision and elusiveness?-No
4-Durability?-No
5-Power runner at 222lbs?-No
6-Pass catching ability?-INC. (won't let you forget Faulk)
7-Pass blocking ability? Who knows? Never plays that much(see #6)
8-First round value?-No
9-Present possible trade value?-Yes (new start somewhere else. Maybe it is our scheme that does not work for him?)
(9a-If we can get a second or third rounder or a decent CB or OLB for him would you trade him?-Yes)
(9b-Would a second or third round back like Donald Brown or Rashad Jennings fill his shoes on the Pats roster?-Yes)
10-Does moving him help our CAP? Yes to about about $2.5m

Take this test and see what you come up with.
DW Toys

3 - Vision and Elusiveness - These are two separate entities. You can't have them on the same line. Maroney has shown elusiveness on plenty of occasions.

4 - Addai isn't durable. Neither was Deangelo Williams.

5 - At 222, he does run with power. But he was never touted as a power back the way Marion Barber was.

6 - Pass catching - Maroney has done well when the Pats have actually used him in that role. How can you hold it against the guy that the Pats have one of the best pass-catching RBs in the league?

7 - Pass Blocking - Maroney actually does well there. When he's used in that way. He's picked up several blitzes and taken the guy out of the play. Unlike Morris last year with Pollard.

10 - WRONG. Moving Maroney would NOT save about $2.5 million against the cap. Maroney's cap value is currently only 1.77 million. If the Pats were to cut/trade him, Maroney's cap hit would be $2.12 million.

Your hatred of Maroney is as biased and tainted as your hatred of Sanders. Even BOR got sick of your schtick about Sanders and told you to stow it.

 

[bigfandan]

I won't say it's true that he improved while Addai declined. There are only three years of stats for both guys. 2006-2007 Maroney improved ypc from 4.0 to 4.8, but that's expected with arrival of Moss-Welker and spread formation. (His 2008 ypc was 3.3 in limited action of 4 games.). Contrary to showing improvement, actually Maroney's averages declined in 2nd half of 2007 but then he had 100yd games against Jets and Fins in last 3 weeks raising his average. 50% of Maroney's career yards came in 2007, which should tip ypc in his favor. Another thing - Maroney was a pass catcher in his rockie year but seldomly in 2007 or afterwards. I put the numbers below but feel free to check the source NFL.com's Maroney stats Laurence Maroney: Game Logs.

Addai's numbers were incorrect. Here are correct 3-yr stats from NFL.com:
Last 3 seasons (2006, 2007, 2008):
Addai:
Carries / Yards / TDs
642 / 2697 / 27
Maroney:
Carries / Yards / TDs
388 / 1673 / 12 (Note: 185 carries/ 835yds from 2007 was assisted greatly by the PERFECT PASSING OFFENSE)

Receiptions / yards
Addai 106 / 895
Maroney 26 / 310 (receiptions by year 2006/2007/2008: 22/4/0 - he was abandoned from screen plays from 2007 forward)

 

[DaBruinz]

Jack, Your binkies are Maroney and Sanders. I am sooooo glad that you and "others" have told me Maroney will not be traded. I am relieved..whew! Thanks cousins!
The Patriots are not perfect and make mistakes. Player personnel is a gamble. Every player can't be All Pro. If you insist that every player on the Pats can start over anyone else in this league wouldn't you call yourself a little teenie,weenie bit of a homer? Sanders rots...End of story. Are you aware that the Patriots were victimized by the most TDs by pass of any team in the NFL in 2008? Jack, where do you think that most of those passes went, up the sidelines or over the middle? He is a JAG brought back as we are down to one Safety. If they would have waited a few days longer they could have gotten Sean Jones for the same money....Go ahead and now tell me Jones was not the player that Sanders is....Look where they are rated by the NFL Jack! Lets leave this Sanders discussion alone. I have proved my point. I hope I am wrong about little James but I am not.
This is about Maroney. I was excited when we drafted him. Read some of the very intelligent comments in this Thread. I am not an Adai fan but for the last three years combined he has out performed Maroney. This is a true statement. Another great point was made that a first round running back should have an immediate impact, not four years later. The red flag when we drafted him was he was not a full time RB.
Jack if your real name is Bill Belichick I am sorry that I have crossed you Bill and I guess I bow to your decisions as I am the one who knows nada.
Lighten up, Francis!
DW Toys

P.S. We save $2.5m in CAP on Maroney if we can trade or cut him sir.

Listen. Stop being a fool. You are wrong about Sanders and you are wrong about Maroney. You are even MORE WRONG that the Pats would save money by Trading or Cutting him. Just go and look at Patscap.com

Nothing you've mentioned has been terribly intelligent. Maroney DID make an immediate impact as a rookie. And he got better as a sophmore before his shoulder injury. And, unfortunately, that shoulder injury wasn't fully healed at the start of 2008 and the Pats figured they'd play it safe with him and shut him down early. So he'd have a much longer time frame to recover.

One of the reasons that the Pats gave up so many TDs via the pass was a lack of an adequate pass rush. And that stemmed from them not rushing Mayo and Bruschi not being able to blitz effectively. So the Pats only had OLBs rushing. And you'd know that the Pats pass rush was best when they could rush for all 4 LB spots.

And please stop with the garbage that Maroney wasn't a full time back. He was. You clearly don't understand the offense that they ran in Minnesota.

 

[BritPat]

All we need is the annual "ZOMG, our draft woz crap" thread, and the off-season is complete.

 

[DaBruinz]

I like the way you framed things... yeh you are right right... Addai missed about as many games and was less effective than Maroney. Adrain Peterson was nothing special either.

Maroney is a star waiting to happen. Nice

Just a point of information.

Deangelo Williams hasn't been "pretty healthy" as Deus Irae mentioned. Williams missed 3 games his rookie year with injuries and was limited in playing time through about a 18 games during his 1st 2 years. Its why many Carolina fans were upset with him prior to him breaking out this year.

As I mentioned, The Pats made the choice to shut Maroney down when it was realized that his shoulder wasn't 100% from the previous injury. I don't see how that makes him injury prone.

 

[DaBruinz]

I won't say it's true that he improved while Addai declined. There are only three years of stats for both guys. 2006-2007 Maroney improved ypc from 4.0 to 4.8, but that's expected with arrival of Moss-Welker and spread formation. (His 2008 ypc was 3.3 in limited action of 4 games.). Contrary to showing improvement, actually Maroney's averages declined in 2nd half of 2007 but then he had 100yd games against Jets and Fins in last 3 weeks raising his average. 50% of Maroney's career yards came in 2007, which should tip ypc in his favor. Another thing - Maroney was a pass catcher in his rockie year but seldomly in 2007 or afterwards. I put the numbers below but feel free to check the source NFL.com's Maroney stats Laurence Maroney: Game Logs.

Addai's numbers were incorrect. Here are correct 3-yr stats from NFL.com:
Last 3 seasons (2006, 2007, 2008):
Addai:
Carries / Yards / TDs
642 / 2697 / 27
Maroney:
Carries / Yards / TDs
388 / 1673 / 12 (Note: 185 carries/ 835yds from 2007 was assisted greatly by the PERFECT PASSING OFFENSE)

Receiptions / yards
Addai 106 / 895
Maroney 26 / 310 (receiptions by year 2006/2007/2008: 22/4/0 - he was abandoned from screen plays from 2007 forward)

So, let me get this straight. You penalize Maroney for his YPC going from 4.3 to 4.8 because of the addition of Moss and Welker and then you additionally penalize him because the number of receptions he had dropped from 22 to 4 because of the addition of Moss and Welker.

Seems to me that you can't have it both ways. The fact is that Moss and Welker were the ones who caused the drop in Maroney's receptions. Because they were getting them.

Also, one of the reasons that Maroney's stats "declined" during the 2nd half of 2007 is because he didn't play much. Since he was recovering from a shoulder injury. But, why let facts get in the way.

 

[Deus Irae]

Just a point of information.

Deangelo Williams hasn't been "pretty healthy" as Deus Irae mentioned. Williams missed 3 games his rookie year with injuries and was limited in playing time through about a 18 games during his 1st 2 years. Its why many Carolina fans were upset with him prior to him breaking out this year.

As I mentioned, The Pats made the choice to shut Maroney down when it was realized that his shoulder wasn't 100% from the previous injury. I don't see how that makes him injury prone.

In my defense, I was giving the benefit of the doubt because I didn't want to be told I was slanting the data. Of course, the clown accused me of doing it anyway.

 

[DaBruinz]

I dislike Colts and it pains me to write this. But Addai is a more durable runner and much bigger receiving threat. He is all down back. Maroney is not.


Last season an injured Addai still outgained Maroney 5:1. BTW, Maroney's YPC dropped to 3.3 last season. He is not showing progress as a runner nor is he improving blocking or receiving skills.

The Pats O-line stunk to high heaven to start the season. Its why ALL the running backs started horribly.

 

[DaBruinz]

In my defense, I was giving the benefit of the doubt because I didn't want to be told I was slanting the data. Of course, the clown accused me of doing it anyway.

I understand Deus.. And you are right.. He is a clown.