Should have re-signed Samuel...

[emoney_33]

Dude, Pats play zone coverage. The concept of zone and man coverage are completely different. If they were to switch man coverage just for one guy (Plaxico) would be more of a detriment to the overall scheme of the defense.

So the Pats have never played man, and Hobbs never plays man coverage? Since ya know the Pats "play zone coverage". They have no man coverage schemes? They are that limited? REALLY!?

I mean you'd think a great defensive mind like BB could adapt to a situation of having a great CB and a terrible one, but he's just too stubborn.

And I love how you or some of the people here are now putting words in my mouth. I never said BB is stupid nor stubborn. You guys are reaching.

You infer it with your assertions.

I'm sure BB thinks Hobbs can do the job that he's asked to do. He thought the same with ONeal, Starks, Beisel, and a number of guys that couldn't. Surpirse, BB's not perfect. He's still the best coach out there, but you guys act like the guy doesn't make error judgement.

Difference is Starks, Oneal and Beisel lost their jobs relatively quickly. Hobbs has had his job for 4 seasons (since REPLACING STARKS). There have been no signs at all that they are even attempting to replace Hobbs.

So again by saying Hobbs is so bad is attacking BB's ability to judge a CB and how he performs in a defense.

 

[DaBruinz]

Came across this - good fuel for the debate:


Loss of Asante Samuel costly to Patriots
Bad return on decision

By Ron Borges | Tuesday, January 6, 2009 |

Den - why would you contaminate this site with something that Borges spewed? Also, just for future reference, post the link for the article and copy a few lines. Don't post the whole thing. Ian can get in trouble for that.

 

[Deus Irae]

...I'm sure BB thinks Hobbs can do the job that he's asked to do. He thought the same with ONeal, Starks, Beisel, and a number of guys that couldn't. Surpirse, BB's not perfect. He's still the best coach out there, but you guys act like the guy doesn't make error judgement.

Which players among that group of "ONeal, Starks, Beisel, and a number of guys that couldn't" were 4 year starters? I ask because I just can't remember BB being so wrong about a player for such an extended period of time that he started that player in 49 of 63 games.

 

[DaBruinz]

You can construed facts to support ANY argument. If you don't understand this concept, then it's your fault.

You think that's a valid article, that says it all.

Yes, my thinking its valid does say it all. Glad you finally got your head on straight.

As for the facts, you can construe them however you want. Most of us take them at face value and don't read more into it than is there. Most of us don't sit there and activate the spin machine the way you do so that you don't have to admit that you are wrong or don't know what you are talking about. Instead of just admitting your wrong or that the other person's argument is valid.

 

[Snarf]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a "pick SIX"?

 

[DaBruinz]

Look dude, I watch the games just like all you guys. What I see is Hobbs getting picked on and teams getting easy third down conversions when they attack him. Whether it is a result of a defensive scheme that this always happens, who knows. Hobbs did get defensive when the media started grilling him last year about it and complained that he was doing his job. Maybe BB is just messing with him and putting him in a position to constantly fail so we could have this argument!:singing:

You choose to see only what you want to see. That doesn't make it reality. And it doesn't mean you aren't letting your bias cloud your views. Its pretty funny how you sit there and have numerous people tell you the same thing, yet you cling to this fantasy that you are right. It doesn't matter to you what the facts are.

 

[DaBruinz]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a "pick SIX"?

An interception that goes for a Touchdown..

 

[DaBruinz]

LOL, okay buddy

How can I even properly respond to this crap.

Yes, its crap because you don't want to believe the truth and because your "eyes" told you something different. It doesn't matter that several people saw the game and saw the same thing. They are all wrong and you are correct....

Grow a set of balls and admit you were wrong. Or are you too much of a coward to do so?

 

[ALP]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a "pick SIX"?

interception return for a td

 

[102 Pat]

It's easy to say that Samuel should of been resigned given the facts that:

A) His team is still playing and the Pats aren't

B) The pick six from sunday

What if we had made the playoffs and the Eagles hadn't and Hobbs got a pick six on sunday? Would there be threads saying "Glad we didn't keep Asante"?

 

[emoney_33]

What if we had made the playoffs and the Eagles hadn't and Hobbs got a pick six on sunday? Would there be threads saying "Glad we didn't keep Asante"?

No there would be threads complaining about Hobbs' celebrating after making a "routine" play.

 

[condon84]

Yes, its crap because you don't want to believe the truth and because your "eyes" told you something different. It doesn't matter that several people saw the game and saw the same thing. They are all wrong and you are correct....

Grow a set of balls and admit you were wrong. Or are you too much of a coward to do so?

Did you even see what I was responding to? He said that because Asante saw Jackson look at the WR, he jumped the route and made the pick anyone of us could have. You think that's a valid statement and I need to grow some balls and agree to it?

First, my argument was that you guys are discrediting Asante and his value as a CB. Yes, he made that INT look easy, but it's because of his technique and watching film was he able to make that play. The announcers talk about how Asante broke for the ball even before Jackson threw it. Did you guys ever think about the fact that Asante may have caught something on film that made that play possible. You guys are dilluting his hard work and preparation.

When Brady plays, you always see him throw to the open guy. He rarely forces the ball (unless it's Randy). Why don't you guys say, "Wow, he's wide open, I could have made that throw"? You know why, because you guys appreciate and laud his intelligence and him knowing the offense. Why can't you also praise Samuel for the same thing?

Again, the bitter pill is hard to swallow.

 

[condon84]

Yes, its crap because you don't want to believe the truth and because your "eyes" told you something different. It doesn't matter that several people saw the game and saw the same thing. They are all wrong and you are correct....

Grow a set of balls and admit you were wrong. Or are you too much of a coward to do so?

Did you even see what I was responding to? He said that because Asante saw Jackson look at the WR, he jumped the route and made the pick anyone of us could have. You think that's a valid statement and I need to grow some balls and agree to it?

First, my argument was that you guys are discrediting Asante and his value as a CB. Yes, he made that INT look easy, but it's because of his technique and watching film was he able to make that play. The announcers talk about how Asante broke for the ball even before Jackson threw it. Did you guys ever think about the fact that Asante may have caught something on film that made that play possible. You guys are dilluting his hard work and preparation.

When Brady plays, you always see him throw to the open guy. He rarely forces the ball (unless it's Randy). Why don't you guys say, "Wow, he's wide open, I could have made that throw"? You know why, because you guys appreciate and laud his intelligence and him knowing the offense. Why can't you also praise Samuel for the same thing?

Again, the bitter pill is hard to swallow.

 

[Deus Irae]

Did you even see what I was responding to? He said that because Asante saw Jackson look at the WR, he jumped the route and made the pick anyone of us could have. You think that's a valid statement and I need to grow some balls and agree to it?

First, my argument was that you guys are discrediting Asante and his value as a CB. Yes, he made that INT look easy, but it's because of his technique and watching film was he able to make that play. The announcers talk about how Asante broke for the ball even before Jackson threw it. Did you guys ever think about the fact that Asante may have caught something on film that made that play possible. You guys are dilluting his hard work and preparation.

When Brady plays, you always see him throw to the open guy. He rarely forces the ball (unless it's Randy). Why don't you guys say, "Wow, he's wide open, I could have made that throw"? You know why, because you guys appreciate and laud his intelligence and him knowing the offense. Why can't you also praise Samuel for the same thing?

Again, the bitter pill is hard to swallow.

No, what's hard to swallow is your inability to grasp simple realities.

1.) The TV guys were commenting on what the Eagles' DBs were doing. It wasn't just Asante doing it, either.

2.) Jackson threw precisely the sort of pass that the Eagles' DBs were sitting on.

3.) The pass itself came out at the perfect trajectory for the DB.

4.) The DB had nobody to break up his attempt for the interception.

In other words, given the circumstances surrounding the play, it would have been more surprising if the DB didn't make the play than if he did.

As for people discrediting Samuel's value as a cb, the irony there can pretty much stand on its own, given your ridiculous anti-Hobbs rantings which ignore facts in favor of your bias.

 

[DaBruinz]

Did you even see what I was responding to? He said that because Asante saw Jackson look at the WR, he jumped the route and made the pick anyone of us could have. You think that's a valid statement and I need to grow some balls and agree to it?

I know exactly what you were responding to. And yes, you need to just admit that you were wrong about the play and that any average CB in the league could have and would have made it.

First, my argument was that you guys are discrediting Asante and his value as a CB. Yes, he made that INT look easy, but it's because of his technique and watching film was he able to make that play. The announcers talk about how Asante broke for the ball even before Jackson threw it. Did you guys ever think about the fact that Asante may have caught something on film that made that play possible. You guys are dilluting his hard work and preparation.

Your first argument was total BS, just like your others have been. People were talking about the REALITY of Asante Samuel and what he brought to the table. You were trying to make him out to be this saviour shut down cornerback, which he wasn't. Umm... BTW, Where do you get that Asante is this great film buff and that he spends all these extra hours in the film room?

And, even if he "saw something" what you just said about him breaking before the ball was thrown does as much to support what Canadas #1 Pats Fan said as to what you said. Did you stop to think that maybe because Samuel saw Jackson eyeing his receiver the entire time, that allowed Samuel to get a break on the throw? NAH... It couldn't be that..

When Brady plays, you always see him throw to the open guy. He rarely forces the ball (unless it's Randy). Why don't you guys say, "Wow, he's wide open, I could have made that throw"? You know why, because you guys appreciate and laud his intelligence and him knowing the offense. Why can't you also praise Samuel for the same thing?

Again, the bitter pill is hard to swallow.

The only one who is having a hard time swallowing a bitter bill is you. Again, how do you know that Samuel is this great film room study? Most of what I've read never talked about Samuel staying late watching films. Never mentioned him staying after practices to improve on things.

Samuel is an average #1 corner in the league. And that is clearly debateable since there have been hundreds of threads on the topic going back to 2005 and 2006.

If Samuel was so damn intelligent and smart, as you claim, how did a 4th WR like David Tyree beat Samuel twice in the SB? Both times when Samuel was in Man Coverage on him? OH, wait, that's right. You erroneously think that the Pats ONLY play ZONE coverage. It doesn't matter that the Burress TD when Hobbs was on supposed to cover him that the Pats were in Man Coverage either. I guess that its only man coverage when its not your binkie being questioned.

 

[condon84]

I know exactly what you were responding to. And yes, you need to just admit that you were wrong about the play and that any average CB in the league could have and would have made it.



Your first argument was total BS, just like your others have been. People were talking about the REALITY of Asante Samuel and what he brought to the table. You were trying to make him out to be this saviour shut down cornerback, which he wasn't. Umm... BTW, Where do you get that Asante is this great film buff and that he spends all these extra hours in the film room?

And, even if he "saw something" what you just said about him breaking before the ball was thrown does as much to support what Canadas #1 Pats Fan said as to what you said. Did you stop to think that maybe because Samuel saw Jackson eyeing his receiver the entire time, that allowed Samuel to get a break on the throw? NAH... It couldn't be that..



The only one who is having a hard time swallowing a bitter bill is you. Again, how do you know that Samuel is this great film room study? Most of what I've read never talked about Samuel staying late watching films. Never mentioned him staying after practices to improve on things.

Samuel is an average #1 corner in the league. And that is clearly debateable since there have been hundreds of threads on the topic going back to 2005 and 2006.

If Samuel was so damn intelligent and smart, as you claim, how did a 4th WR like David Tyree beat Samuel twice in the SB? Both times when Samuel was in Man Coverage on him? OH, wait, that's right. You erroneously think that the Pats ONLY play ZONE coverage. It doesn't matter that the Burress TD when Hobbs was on supposed to cover him that the Pats were in Man Coverage either. I guess that its only man coverage when its not your binkie being questioned.

Can your read AND comprehend? When did I ever say he's a savior CB? I said he is one of the best in the league. You also said that I said the Pats ONLY play zone. What? I said RARELY. You know the difference? If you don't know that the Pats are a zone coverage team, then do some research.

And oh yeah, you say Asante is an average CB and some other guys in here say the same thing. That's your opinion. My opinion that he is one of the top CBs in the league is actually backed by NFL personnel men, analysts and fellow Patriot players. Who's opinion matters most?

You are clearly having a hard time making an objective and fair assessment of ex-Patriot players AND current Patriot players.

 

[condon84]

No, what's hard to swallow is your inability to grasp simple realities.

1.) The TV guys were commenting on what the Eagles' DBs were doing. It wasn't just Asante doing it, either.

2.) Jackson threw precisely the sort of pass that the Eagles' DBs were sitting on.

3.) The pass itself came out at the perfect trajectory for the DB.

4.) The DB had nobody to break up his attempt for the interception.

In other words, given the circumstances surrounding the play, it would have been more surprising if the DB didn't make the play than if he did.

As for people discrediting Samuel's value as a cb, the irony there can pretty much stand on its own, given your ridiculous anti-Hobbs rantings which ignore facts in favor of your bias.

My main argument was that people discredit Asante's playmaking abilities. I made a comparison to the first Ed Reed INT that he returned for a TD. That was a horribly thrown ball by Pennington and Reed took advantage of it. Asante's career picks six, four of which were in the playoffs, were most likely aided by the defensive front, but not all CBs in the league can take advantages of those opportunities.

Whatever. It's clear that you guys view Hobbs as just a good or probably better CB than Asante. This could go on and on.

 

[Deus Irae]

My main argument was that people discredit Asante's playmaking abilities. I made a comparison to the first Ed Reed INT that he returned for a TD. That was a horribly thrown ball by Pennington and Reed took advantage of it. Asante's career picks six, four of which were in the playoffs, were most likely aided by the defensive front, but not all CBs in the league can take advantages of those opportunities.

Whatever. It's clear that you guys view Hobbs as just a good or probably better CB than Asante. This could go on and on.

Asante being resigned and Asante ranked compared to Hobbs are not the same topic, although there is overlap. You are now trying to turn this around and put the onus on others, when it was you making the negative dig at Hobbs in that same post where you bemoaned people "discrediting Asante":

The way you guys make it sound is that Ellis Hobbs could have made that play. LOL. Hobbs would not have been in position to make that play. He would have been ten yards off the receiver still.

As I noted earlier, the Eagles were playing to jump those routes and the commentators even pointed that out. This was by design, and wasn't Just Samuel playing Kreskin. The pass was a bad pass, and a perfect set up for a pick six for any NFL caliber corner who didn't drop the pass.

 

[Mack Herron]

My main argument was that people discredit Asante's playmaking abilities. I made a comparison to the first Ed Reed INT that he returned for a TD. That was a horribly thrown ball by Pennington and Reed took advantage of it. Asante's career picks six, four of which were in the playoffs, were most likely aided by the defensive front, but not all CBs in the league can take advantages of those opportunities.

Whatever. It's clear that you guys view Hobbs as just a good or probably better CB than Asante. This could go on and on.

In 2008 the Pats desperately needed but never found a CB nearly as good as Asante. We clearly would have been better off with SAmuel this year, and if they knew then what they know today, they would have worked an extension for Samuel before his final year. People who argued to sign him back then, step forward. Predicting is difficult but, nevertheless, the FO got it wrong in this case.

 

[BestQB]

This is a bit like saying the team that drafted 198 should have selected Tom Brady. Hindsight is wonderful isn't it? What was Samuels asking for? None of us know. They felt it was a bit too rich for their blood.