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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Patspsycho, Nov 18, 2009.

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  1. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

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    Really wish we could hear from you on the game breakdown from last night.

    Just saw the 4th and 2 replay for the 100th time, and realized that as much as it was a gamble for us, it was also a gamble for the Colts D. They left nobody deep, man to man press on all our receivers, 6 man press on the OL. We went 5 wide in empty set which I think was a mistake because of the 6 man press on our 5 OL.

    DE and OLBs in 3 point, and ILBs stand up because they knew the OL would split to edge contain, leaving Koppen responsible for both A gaps which is impossible. This forced Brady to a quick throw and is why he did not pick up Welker. He had to hit the first thing he 'felt.'

    My question is why, Brady didn't let the time clock run out and take a delay of game? If he intentionally lets the clock expire, he could either 1) reassign Faulk, or 2) could personnel be exchanged? I do not know the rule on this.

    As it was only one ILB blitzed, the other faked and dropped back. Unfortunately Koppen picked the wrong one.

    It just kills me that he missed Welker.

    In the final analysis, the Colts outguessed us on this last play, period.
  2. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why did you not mention Vollmer did not pick up the outside rusher?

    Brady hold's that ball for a fraction of a second more and it's a loose ball.

    If he throws it lower Faulk has leverage to stay ahead of the 30.

    I think it was a good call, a good choice of play ... bad pickup of the blitz and the result was a poor throw by Tom ... Oh well ... happens all the time to QB's. The Colts made a few great plays on that play - let's give them some credit ... especially for the tackle of Faulk.
  3. cmasspatsfan

    cmasspatsfan Rookie

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    Then it would have been 4th and 7 and they probably dont go for it at that point and if you punt your giving up 5 more yards, it should have worked, it sort of did but for a bad spot.
  4. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

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    Vollmer did not miss the outside block, he was forced to pick up the inside block because Mankins had to pick up that A gap Koppen elected to leave open. As it was, Mankins was late (not his fault) so the ILB had a free path to Brady.
  5. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The line seriously broke down on that play which is uncharacteristic of them this year. I look at this play as the Colts player or coach made a great call on this play ... they made the best call they could possibly make on a hurried and chaotic play. I hate that we did not get the 1st down but I give the colts credit - they made the one more play as Bill says. Brady had pressure from both sides and up the middle ... considering the pressure he made a 1/2 decent throw. Advantage colts unfortunately.
  6. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

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    Yes, I have started to see it in that light.

    I am not buying the line that this 4th and short was a 'well-thought out' scenario on BB's part. There are too many qualitatives that went wrong. Knowing he was out of timeouts and therefore unable to challenge if something went wrong, should have been a factor.

    Starting with running out of timeouts and going to the end of the game, including that ill-advised tackle of Addai at the goal line, and starting with just 20 something seconds on the clock on the last drive; those are just a few examples of bad game management.

    I am concluding, unless proven otherwise, that this was a case of game management spiraling out of control, with the burning of timeouts as a key factor. This led to us getting schooled in the last two minutes.

    The good thing is that this didn't happen last year- it happened this year to a young defensive corp. They got schooled, but the good thing is they will learn much from it, including the experience of playing with no timeouts, against no huddle from Manning who knew damn well they were out of timeouts and so didn't want to give the sideline much time to audible defenses.
  7. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Earlier in the year I made a thread asking if Brady was calling his own plays. Well ... the answer was he wasn't other than the usual audibles. I seriously think we would be better off if Tom called more of his own plays, especially inside of 5 minutes when the game is on the line. I trust him more than O'Brien to make good calls - I hope this is a consideration for the team moving forward in these scenarios. Perhaps with all the player movement it's not possible ... I'd like to think Tom would have called QB sneak 2 times if he was making the call. We'll never know.
  8. The Dynasty

    The Dynasty Rookie

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    This makes no sense at all. It it were 4th and 7 there isnt a chance in hell BB goes for it. Yes of course if he takes the delay of game penalty they can change personnel, they can change anything. They could even bring the punt team on if they wanted to. That point makes no sense
  9. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

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    It's a pass play. That extra 5 yards is purely psychological.
  10. Phokus

    Phokus Rookie

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    I'm wondering why the O-Line would even give a crap about the edge rushers at all on that play. I mean, they wouldn't have gotten to brady in time, but the blitzers up the middle almost did.
  11. Yehoodi

    Yehoodi Rookie

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    Its about as psychological as the Doomsday device . . . :eek:
  12. Pat the Pats Fan

    Pat the Pats Fan Rookie

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    Sorry, but within 5 seconds of the clock ticking to "00", I deleted the dam thing. Time to move on, forget about it, all that...
  13. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Good analysis - unfortunately I deleted that off my DVR immediately following the game, though I regret it now. I've seen that play a million times at this point, so I will say while Welker appeared open, it wouldn't have been an easy throw - he would've had to go right over the D-Line and would've been ripe for tipping/deflecting. I think throwing outside on do-or-die a play like that is a safer bet for that reason alone. And as Troy Brown said on CSN last nite, that on a quick play like that, Brady has to make up his mind on where to go before the snap, there isn't time to look around the field.

    Let's not forget, Kevin Faulk caught that ball at the 31 yard line and the ref spotted it at the 29. The play worked, Brady made the pass, and Faulk made a great catch, the only guy who failed to do their job on the play was the nearside judge who took it upon himself to decide that Kevin Faulk bobbled the ball the whole way down despite Faulk's back being to him the whole time.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
  14. The Dynasty

    The Dynasty Rookie

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    So 4th and 7 at their own 24 yard line, they're going for it? You're joking, right?
  15. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

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    Barry Switzer did the same thing and got a big fat ring out of it.

    The worst thing was, it was a power left.

    Not a pass play, a run play. Yeah you heard that right.. a run.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
  16. The Dynasty

    The Dynasty Rookie

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    Is Barry Switzer BB? No, didnt think so. The run game was a lot more popular back in those days so the argument is not valid. Thats great for him and it worked out.
  17. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    IMO, you are off on both counts. Brady knew he wouldn't have a clean throwing lane to the middle of the field. Too much clutter and too great a chance of a tipped ball. He had the matchup he wanted with Faulk against a safety.

    Not sure how the Colts outguessed anything when the Pats got exactly what they were looking for. They hit a pass play for 3 yards on 4th and 2. If you want to slam the Pats for not having a timeout to challenge or for not anticipating that the official would invent a "backward progress" methodology for spotting the ball, then go right ahead. Slamming the Pats for executing a game-deciding play perfectly or lauding the Colts for not stopping said play? Not so much.
  18. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

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    1) He had a clean throwing lane. One ILB was already in his face, and the other ILB had dropped back to cover strong side. The slot was empty. That was the Colt's gamble- they left it empty. Brady was in 3 step drop and could have easily thrown over the ILB. Not sure who it was, I couldn't get his number.

    2) The Colts outguessed the Pats because they pressed man-to-man, and nobody played deep. No deep safety, no cushion. They were anticipating short routes which is what ensued. If we even had one or two WR on go patterns, the Colts would have been screwed.
  19. The Dynasty

    The Dynasty Rookie

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    1. He definitely did not have a clear throwing lane, they blitzed 6 against our 5 OL. They came right up the middle and was right in Brady's face. He did not have a clear throwing lane.

    2. Of course they pressed man to man. Its 4th and 2, do you really think a CB would give a WR a cushion. Give me a break. Of course they expected short routes, the Patriots expected a blitz which is the reason for the short routes. The Colts wouldnt have been screwed of we had a WR run a go route because the play wouldnt have had time to develop because of the blitz.
  20. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

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    That was not a 6 man blitz, it was a rush with inside ILB blitz, one fake and one real.
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