Would they hire Weis now if it was an emergency?

[mr3putt]

Eh? The Colts have basically 20 plays that they run on offense, but good luck stopping them. Nobody cares how predictable an offense is as long as they exectute. I'll take execution over fake punts.

Oh I see
Back to the Vince Lombardi "we will beat them even when they know what's coming" philosophy
Stone age thinking there
We have some great offensive talent being wasted by horrible coaching.
Right now it's on O'Brien...if it continues the blame falls squarely on BB

 

[emoney_33]

You'll never understand what I'm saying.

There's no shoulda coulda. The Patriots did win three times and they did lose in 2007.

Accept that as fact and try to analyze why.

You want the facts to change so the talented team always wins. Sometimes it's the best coached team. Offensive coordinators are highly prized for a reason.

BB has decided to use interns instead.

Again, facts and results don't change. Learn from the unexpected wins or losses, or don't.

A LOT of luck went into 2001, you can ignore it all you want. You can also ignore 2002 when the same exact coaching was there. You can't play a game and then go back and change things. And since you can't predict the future, you can only put yourself in the best position to win.

You can claim that the end result is the only thing that matters, fine yea that's what MATTERS. But we are talking about how to give yourself the best chance of being on the winning side.

The fact of the matter is the 2007 team was far and away better than the 2001 team. Regardless of the outcomes, you have a better chance to win it all with the 07 team than the 01 team. Sure the 2001 team did win, but they had a whole lot of luck fall their way too, things that have nothing to do with talent or coaching. Things that you can't possibly plan for, draft for, scout for or coach for.

 

[RayClay]

Regardless of the outcomes, you have a better chance to win it all with the 07 team than the 01 team. Sure the 2001 team did win

Yeah and so did the 03 and 04.

Hard to argue against your personal fantasy armed only with historical fact.

 

[RayClay]

Oh I see
Back to the Vince Lombardi "we will beat them even when they know what's coming" philosophy
Stone age thinking there
We have some great offensive talent being wasted by horrible coaching.
Right now it's on O'Brien...if it continues the blame falls squarely on BB

It really doesn't matter if it works. If anyone here saw Moss and Welker wide open enough to ignore others, then I'm wrong. They both had great games. They both got beat to **** as did Brady, which has become commonplace.

Let's go down memory lane again. Remember when they used to remark how Brady's uniform wasn't even dirty? These were the great lines of Ashworth Gorin and some other all pros.

That was because Brady got rid of the ball, to many different receivers, even though their third wideout was imaginary (Charles Johnson, Fred Coleman?)

Now Brady's had major knee surgery, cracked ribs, messed up finger and that "shoulder"on the injury report is no longer funny.

We must be speaking Esperanto here Mr3putt, no one gets it.

 

[emoney_33]

Yeah and so did the 03 and 04.

Hard to argue against your personal fantasy armed only with historical fact.

What the hell are you talking about? You are taking end result and arguing that a part of it is better strategy. Your argument is flawed and makes no sense. If you think the 2001 offense is something to strive to replicate then you are delusional.

I'm simply arguing that Weis isn't making this team signficantly better. I still think we have as good a chance as any to win it all this year.

 

[pats1]

Name the third receiver on the 2001 Patriots.

Wiggins...

 

[Joker]

it's far too late in the season to change O co-ordinators BUT it's very clear O'Brien is WAY WAY over his head as far as NFL level playcalling is concerned.

For example, Maroney was gashing the right side of the Bills line in the first half...at crunch time O'Brien calls all runs to the left...just flat out mind boggling...the weakness WAS ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THEIR LINE!!!! This ain't rocket science...

 

[RayClay]

You are taking end result and arguing that a part of it is better strategy.

Yes I am

Your argument is flawed and makes no sense.

How do I argue with this?

Is it just me?

 

[Mack Herron]

Wiggins...

Wiggins was a TE and occasional receiver. Fred Coleman was a WR....

 

[RayClay]

Wiggins...

I believe the reference was to wide receiver, but I'll play.

We have st least two of those, you wouldn't know it from this game, but we do. Are you saying it was the greater talent of Wiggins that allowed us to spread the field? he really didn't contribute much over the season.

I'm going out on a limb and saying Watson and Baker could contribute more if they were used. Maybe not in the snow...

 

[Rob0729]

Yeah and so did the 03 and 04.

Hard to argue against your personal fantasy armed only with historical fact.

You do realize in 2001, 2003, and 2004 that the defense had a little to do with the outcome of those season? Just because the Pats won the Super Bowl those season, doesn't mean the offense was the primary reason the Pats won. In 2003, I would argue the Pats went 14-2 and won the Super Bowl despite the offense.

 

[mr3putt]

It really doesn't matter if it works. If anyone here saw Moss and Welker wide open enough to ignore others, then I'm wrong. They both had great games. They both got beat to **** as did Brady, which has become commonplace.

Let's go down memory lane again. Remember when they used to remark how Brady's uniform wasn't even dirty? These were the great lines of Ashworth Gorin and some other all pros.

That was because Brady got rid of the ball, to many different receivers, even though their third wideout was imaginary (Charles Johnson, Fred Coleman?)

Now Brady's had major knee surgery, cracked ribs, messed up finger and that "shoulder"on the injury report is no longer funny.

We must be speaking Esperanto here Mr3putt, no one gets it.

Was not responding to your pearls of wisdom RC
I think the OC should be a source of creativity
Not concrete
The definition of insanity is to continue to do the same thing and expect a different result
Psycho rules the offense right now
Nuff said

 

[IcyPatriot]

Because it is. O'Brien isn't the offensive coordinator, Belichick and Brady are, assisted by Moss and Welker.

TB and BB have been since Weis left. Mcdaniels is a smart play designer, but since Moss was acquired, TB and BB have conpletely sold out to the "star" mentality, as opposed to a balanced offense.

Weis was Belichick's peer, not a yes man. Belichick has been the defacto OC to an extent since and (sacrilege) he's not good at it. He's a defensive guy.

As amazing as our high flying offense was, it was defensed by a team with a good pass rush because it was one dimensional and predictable. It doesn't matter how clever your formations are if the defense knows you're going to pass and who you're going to pass it to.

TB and BB are human, they have egos and they think as long as their long and short "star" receivers get the ball, they'll win.

That's it.

That's awful ... plain awful ... Brady is struggling due to injury ... it's that simple.

 

[RayClay]

You do realize in 2001, 2003, and 2004 that the defense had a little to do with the outcome of those season? Just because the Pats won the Super Bowl those season, doesn't mean the offense was the primary reason the Pats won. In 2003, I would argue the Pats went 14-2 and won the Super Bowl despite the offense.

Indeed we played hard nosed defense and conservative consistent offense.

I am obviously not saying those offenses had more talent either. I am saying our offensive philosophy put us into a position to win close games now.

Do you feel comfortable we can pull out close games in the clutch now? I don't.

We are much more talented offensively now, excepting maybe Dillon. the argument is a simple one, we got the most out of the least, now we get the least out of the most.

If you like throwing to the same two guys and heaving it into triple coverage on a regular basis, this philosophy is it.

I'd like to see Welker and Wes open once in a while, but that will never happen again under the current scheme. great to have guys that can perform while being pounded and multiply covered i guess.

 

[RayClay]

That's awful ... plain awful ... Brady is struggling due to injury ... it's that simple.

His injury is causing him to fling hail Mary's instead of hitting short passes to open receivers?

Funny how little he got injured in the glory years. Maybe you're mistaking cause and effect?

 

[RayClay]

Was not responding to your pearls of wisdom RC
I think the OC should be a source of creativity
Not concrete
The definition of insanity is to continue to do the same thing and expect a different result
Psycho rules the offense right now
Nuff said

Yup, OC's are born, not made. It's a fact of life that certain people are more talented and adjustments are a "feel".

I would say, however that almost all QBs want the big play and a veteran like Weiss might suggest things, he wouldn't accept otherwise. I wouldn't mind a different professional coordinator, but the change in philosophy can be jarring.

 

[Pujo]

Oh I see
Back to the Vince Lombardi "we will beat them even when they know what's coming" philosophy
Stone age thinking there
We have some great offensive talent being wasted by horrible coaching.
Right now it's on O'Brien...if it continues the blame falls squarely on BB

They won, so we must still be in the stone age. Also, the Colts are 14-0 with that philosophy.

 

[IcyPatriot]

His injury is causing him to fling hail Mary's instead of hitting short passes to open receivers?

Funny how little he got injured in the glory years. Maybe you're mistaking cause and effect?

I'm not mistaking anything ... 5th most points in the NFL ... 2nd in the AFC and he has broken ribs, a sore shoulder, a bad finger and we really don't even know how his knee is. Experts say his mechanics are different ... good enough for me.

When they are making the play sheet during the week I think it's made partly according to what he can do. I'll say this ... Brady was as good as anyone - ever in throwing sideline passes. One of the hardest throws to make because mechanics and arm strength and footwork are all crucial.

I have barely seen that pass from him all year which is very telling regarding his overall condition. When I see Tom throwing that pass again with authority - I'll know he is back to decent health.

 

[upstater1]

I have always said that people only remember Weis for 2004. They forget all the biatching about the guy in the 2002 and 2003 season.

Brady being hurt probably has a lot to do with some of his throws.

Who is people?

I was ecstatic about getting Weis with BB, because I saw how he transformed the Jets and Testaverde.

I was at the game and had a good view from behind, and I saw dbs for the Bills cheating up. They knew when it was going to be a run, knew when it was a pass.

We had double tight ends and Morris as a FB on about 6 running plays. We had empty backfield all day.

I really am tired of it.

By the way, it was a lot colder at Ralph Wilson than the temperature read. Conditions were not optimal for throwing or catching.

 

[patsfan-1982]

the bad part is it's not the OC they are starting to mix it up it's brady forceing the ball to moss and welker and throwing some of the uglyest balls i ever seen any QB throw a OC can't fix that