Why Brady over Bill

[Kasmir]

The Patriots under BB were 5-13 before Brady.

Nonsense. It's at least as reasonable for me to to say that -- despite 4 years in a first class college program -- Brady was an unheralded 6th round pick before Belichick, that Belichick recognized his potential and made him the GOAT.

 

[Guts]

They're both the GOAT.

 

[BobDigital]

When the team wins Bill Belichick claims that it's a players game, takes the attention away from himself and gives it to the players where he thinks it belongs. I agree with him when he makes that claim. In Bill I Trust.

Brady=75%
Belichick=20%
Kraft=5%

That's my final answer.

I would say 60% Brady 35% BB and 5% Kraft/Luck/Everything else.

 

[BobDigital]

When consensus has been reached on this question, I look forward to also reading about who is more important:

Paul Brown or Otto Graham?
Vince Lombardi or Bart Starr?
Bill Walsh or Joe Montana?
Tom Landry or Roger Staubach?
Chuck Knoll or Terry Bradshaw?

IMO If i had to choose Brown, Lombardi, Montana, Staubach and Knoll. Of course their counter parts were important too in varying degrees for each. I tend to side with Players as the players play but sometimes I felt guys were more cogs in ths machines then driving forces behind it.

That Cleveland team was just stacked head to toe and faced bad competition. As highly as i think of Starr the team was built around running and D and though he did carry them a few times more often than not it was everything else. Starr though is still a top 10 QB all time but Lombardi built that power house. While Walsh is a great coach he also built his O around great QB play and Montana delivered it. Staubach played against some of the best teams every and won a fair amount cause of his ability. Often he had to face a team better than his in those big playoff games and sometimes pulled it out.. for 2 championships. While i think Bradshaw is underrated and surely directly responsible for at least 1 championship overall the dynasty was based on how good everything else was and they won despite him at times too.

 

[Kdo5]

BB is the one that established the team culture.

BB is the one that devises the financial, roster philosophy and organizational structure and strategy.

BB is the one who has implemented the offensive and defensive systems.

BB coaches on game day.

With all that said, without a great QB you will go 9-7 every year. That's what Tom does for you.

I will always take BB because solid leadership and coaching is critical to an organization's success.

Put TB12 in a dumpster fire like CLE and you will not get what we've seen for the last 15 or so years.

Take away Tom Brady and let's see what Bill can really do with a team like the one we had in 2013. We might not have made the playoffs let alone be 12-4.

He has formed a dynamite team around JG and JB. Give those guys Thompkins, Dobson and Hooman and it'd be a nightmare.

They both need each other to achieve the level of excellence they've had for so long.

 

[aluminum seats]

Hell of a lot of words from the OP just to be wrong.

I'd add one note about culture… It was really Parcells who changed the feeling of this organization. Yeah, Carroll came in and there was a decline, but the Pats never felt like a laughingstock again.

Then Belichick and Brady turned the franchise into a dynasty.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Take away Tom Brady and let's see what Bill can really do with a team like the one we had in 2013. We might not have made the playoffs let alone be 12-4.

He has formed a dynamite team around JG and JB. Give those guys Thompkins, Dobson and Hooman and it'd be a nightmare.

They both need each other to achieve the level of excellence they've had for so long.

Are you debating or agreeing?

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

"Actual" Pats Fan implies the rest of us aren't. Pretty arrogant. The constant , nonstop harping all over this board about the logo and now the uniforms is aggravating as hell. We get it, you hate the logo and uniforms. We got it MONTHS AGO. Jeezus krist, give it a goddamned break.

Don't mean to put anybody down...My point above is that Kraft really has accomplished things that most owners never will, and he does deserve credit for it.

About our uni's, I was brought up in a culture, my parents from the Depression, that totally insists that people be quiet. About everything. And all it seems to have ever done is condone and encourage injustice, racism, ignorance, prejudice etc. So, that stuff sure is more important that what your team's wearing, but like everybody I just accepted it for a long time, and I think that was wrong. And it's true about the league, and Orthwein, kicking the Patriots around for years and then resenting us for winning. So, I don't want to annoy people, especially Joker who's probably the #1 fan here. But I don't think I should completely shut up about it, a lot of fans feel the same. And, I like that we all get to vent about whatever here, right or wrong, and I know I've been wrong about things too.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Hell of a lot of words from the OP just to be wrong.

I'd add one note about culture… It was really Parcells who changed the feeling of this organization. Yeah, Carroll came in and there was a decline, but the Pats never felt like a laughingstock again.

Then Belichick and Brady turned the franchise into a dynasty.

True. And it was JBO who hired him, even if it was in preparation for the move west. It gave us immediate cred, and we famously sold out tickets right away. It started with Parcells.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Are you debating or agreeing?

African or European?

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Who else played offense, defense and special teams??

BINGO!!! I got Mingo now, too

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

When consensus has been reached on this question, I look forward to also reading about who is more important:

Paul Brown or Otto Graham?
Vince Lombardi or Bart Starr?
Bill Walsh or Joe Montana?
Tom Landry or Roger Staubach?
Chuck Knoll or Terry Bradshaw?

I'd have to say it's the coaches. And remember, it wasn't all wine and roses. Brown was a control freak, Lombardi rode everybody, Walsh encouraged the friction with Young, Landry juggled QB's for a while and so did Noll, to the point that Terry was dispirited and disillusioned with the game, even before they won a SB.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

They're both the GOAT.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

IMO If i had to choose Brown, Lombardi, Montana, Staubach and Knoll. Of course their counter parts were important too in varying degrees for each. I tend to side with Players as the players play but sometimes I felt guys were more cogs in ths machines then driving forces behind it.

That Cleveland team was just stacked head to toe and faced bad competition. As highly as i think of Starr the team was built around running and D and though he did carry them a few times more often than not it was everything else. Starr though is still a top 10 QB all time but Lombardi built that power house. While Walsh is a great coach he also built his O around great QB play and Montana delivered it. Staubach played against some of the best teams every and won a fair amount cause of his ability. Often he had to face a team better than his in those big playoff games and sometimes pulled it out.. for 2 championships. While i think Bradshaw is underrated and surely directly responsible for at least 1 championship overall the dynasty was based on how good everything else was and they won despite him at times too.

I have to credit Walsh for declaring Montana the starter and giving him full support initially. It was the most brilliant thing he ever did.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Did people ask this question of Russell and Auerbach when they were doing their thing for the Celtics in the 60's???
That is the closest comparison I can think of in terms of an all time great coach/GM and player....

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

"The answer is Tom Brady and frankly all due respect to Bill it is not close" Stopped reading there.

Kraft..................1%
Belichick...........1%
Brady.................1%
flying elvis........97%

Sorry, I couldn't resist

Jets lost today, all is well.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Who else played offense, defense and special teams??

Edelman.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Edelman.

And Vrabel.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

The truth is they're both great. I do think they'd have been successful without each other, but not to the levels they've reached together.

I think a decent amount of mediots thought BB was only successful because of Tom. And now that we've won a few games without Tom, they've swung completely the opposite direction because they can't do anything in moderation or with common sense.

Now the media storyline is the Patriots are winning without Brady so it must be BB. But in hindsight, we've played some pretty lousy teams. That Cardinals win feels less impressive after watching them get lit up by an awful Bills team. At some point, you will need an elite QB, just maybe not against the Dolphins and the Texans.

Not trying to take anything away from Jimmy or Jacoby, but there will be struggles, and what will be interesting is seeing how they bounce back from those struggles. That's what makes Tom the GOAT, not the big game, but the big game after the bad game, or the big drive after struggling all day. It's the mental toughness, the resilience, the ability to struggle all game but still find a way.

And BB knows that. Which is exactly why Tom will be QB1 when he comes back week 5 regardless of how many yards or TDs Jimmy throws for.