Which TE do you most want the Pats to take?

[carolinatony]

Tony Moeaki. The best blocker in the class, and a fine pass catcher.

I'd be happy to see us draft two TE's, so long as one of them is a great blocker and we commit to using them in the passing game much more.

But we must not take one higher than the third round. There's way too much value to be had defensively before then, and offensively afterwards.

My preferred blocking TE's would be:

Moeaki
Hoomanawanui
Dray
Peek
Byham

Preferred pass catchers:

Graham (wont be there though sadly)
Pitta
Quarless
McCoy
Overbay

:agree:

Get the better blocker since we don't throw to them much.

 

[MaineMan]

I also believe that Bill would like to have an elite receiving TE - who wouldn't?

But unless the pass-protection from our OL improves, then those elite receiving skills would be diminished here, if not wasted.

Fortunately, a Light-Vollmer (instead of a Light-Kaczur) pairing at Tackle should allow for a TE to run routes more often, and stay home less often. I am ass-uming, naturally, that Light doesn't regress into Kaczuresque ineptitude in the course of one year. Koppen's getting there quickly, and I fear that Neal could go at any second.

I suppose I can be convinced of the value of a 2nd-round TE, just so long as Bill also drafts a WR & a Pass-Rusher by the end of the 2nd round.

WRT the comment that you replied to - blitz protection isn't the problem. Brady's stats last year (as in previous years) were as good against the blitz as against zero pressure. It was when defenses were able to get pressure with only four or five guys (and coverage was good) that Brady's stats went into the crapper. Part of that, I think, was not having, basically, not enough legitimate targets. If Welker and Moss weren't immediately available, there just weren't any other options. That's why I keep harping about the Pats getting a couple WRs late who can consistently get open and catch in the intermediate area - even if they aren't burners/field-stretchers - and/or a very good receiving TE. Give TFB five good route-runners in every formation and ONE of them is going to be open nearly every play. At which point the pass protection starts looking a whole lot better.

BTW - Light is an interesting case. In 07 and 08, he started the season very well, but his play began to seriously deteriorate, both run-blocking and pass-protection, around Week-8. Having Vollmer as the primary LT and Light as the (relatively expensive) relief-man/backup might keep him fresh enough to finish a season at an elite level if need be. Or, as you suggest, Vollmer at RT to start the season, then move him over at about the halfway point. But then, there's Kaczur. So, maybe we see Saffold or Veldheer as a surprise 2nd round pick.

 

[Marqui]

BTW - Light is an interesting case. In 07 and 08, he started the season very well, but his play began to seriously deteriorate, both run-blocking and pass-protection, around Week-8. Having Vollmer as the primary LT and Light as the (relatively expensive) relief-man/backup might keep him fresh enough to finish a season at an elite level if need be. Or, as you suggest, Vollmer at RT to start the season, then move him over at about the halfway point. But then, there's Kaczur. So, maybe we see Saffold or Veldheer as a surprise 2nd round pick.

That personally wouldn't surprise me at all. I think RT is a HUGE need, even bigger than WR. Light and Kaczur just don't cut it anymore.

 

[MaineMan]

That personally wouldn't surprise me at all. I think RT is a HUGE need, even bigger than WR. Light and Kaczur just don't cut it anymore.

Actually, what would surprise me is if BB didn't take an O-lineman who stood out at the Shrine Game (Saffold). IIRC, if Vollmer starts for Light, the entire starting O-line would then be guys who shone at the Shrine (no poetry intended).

 

[HarkDawg]

LOL, I was alluding to the fact that you called "Tony" Gonzalez by "Anthony"

I thought Tony and Anthony are the same thing?



James is to Jim or Jimmy etc...

should I go on?

 

[patsfan55]

I thought Tony and Anthony are the same thing?



James is to Jim or Jimmy etc...

should I go on?

I can't wait to see how Thomas Brady looks one year removed from the knee injury. Hopefully Matthew Light can protect his blind side.

 

[captain stone]

WRT the comment that you replied to - blitz protection isn't the problem. Brady's stats last year (as in previous years) were as good against the blitz as against zero pressure. It was when defenses were able to get pressure with only four or five guys (and coverage was good) that Brady's stats went into the crapper. Part of that, I think, was not having, basically, not enough legitimate targets. If Welker and Moss weren't immediately available, there just weren't any other options. That's why I keep harping about the Pats getting a couple WRs late who can consistently get open and catch in the intermediate area - even if they aren't burners/field-stretchers - and/or a very good receiving TE. Give TFB five good route-runners in every formation and ONE of them is going to be open nearly every play. At which point the pass protection starts looking a whole lot better.

BTW - Light is an interesting case. In 07 and 08, he started the season very well, but his play began to seriously deteriorate, both run-blocking and pass-protection, around Week-8. Having Vollmer as the primary LT and Light as the (relatively expensive) relief-man/backup might keep him fresh enough to finish a season at an elite level if need be. Or, as you suggest, Vollmer at RT to start the season, then move him over at about the halfway point. But then, there's Kaczur. So, maybe we see Saffold or Veldheer as a surprise 2nd round pick.

I also agree that we need at least 2 more legit Pass-Catchers, so that this offense can sustain more drives, convert more 3rd downs, and score more TDs instead of FGs. As long as one of those targets is a 2nd-round WR, then a TE like Gonzalez or Pitta would be an acceptable addition.

As for the OL, Bill needs to have the answer to this question by Draft Weekend:
Is Vollmer our LT of the Future?
If Yes, then OT becomes a late 3rd-day option.
If No (meaning that SeaBass is our RT-Only of the Future), then LT suddenly becomes a poss. 2nd-Round (Roger Saffold?) consideration.

 

[dryheat44]

WRT the comment that you replied to - blitz protection isn't the problem. Brady's stats last year (as in previous years) were as good against the blitz as against zero pressure. It was when defenses were able to get pressure with only four or five guys (and coverage was good) that Brady's stats went into the crapper. Part of that, I think, was not having, basically, not enough legitimate targets. If Welker and Moss weren't immediately available, there just weren't any other options. That's why I keep harping about the Pats getting a couple WRs late who can consistently get open and catch in the intermediate area - even if they aren't burners/field-stretchers - and/or a very good receiving TE. Give TFB five good route-runners in every formation and ONE of them is going to be open nearly every play. At which point the pass protection starts looking a whole lot better.
.

After stating that blitz protection wasn't the problem, you did a pretty good job explaining why blitz protection was a problem. Getting hurt by the blitz encompasses much more than taking sacks. RBs whom are supposed to be running a route can't get into their pattern. WRs and TEs have to cut their routes short and hope that Brady's on the same page and has a throwing lane to them. Guys like Galloway, who need time to get open, can't get open. DBs can jump routes to Moss and Welker. The book on Brady right now is that as good as he is, the opposing defense is always better off pressuring him than hanging back.

It's a chicken and egg thing. Give TFB five good route-runners in every formation and one of them is going to be open nearly every play-assuming Brady has time-and the OL starts to look better.

OR I would say, give TFB three-and-a-half seconds of protection, and the WRs/TEs start looking a whole lot better.

If teams are constantly getting immediate pressure with four rushers, either Dante, the entire offensive line, or both, need to get canned immediately.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

If teams are constantly getting immediate pressure with four rushers, either Dante, the entire offensive line, or both, need to get canned immediately.

Yep, but lets not leave out that QB fellow with his own duty to call protections while reading the defense.

 

[dryheat44]

Yep, but lets not leave out that QB fellow with his own duty to call protections while reading the defense.

I'm assuming the diagnoses are correct, and it's the execution that's lacking. I mean, if there are 5 or 6 guys to block 4, it shouldn't be terribly complicated.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I'm assuming the diagnoses are correct, and it's the execution that's lacking. I mean, if there are 5 or 6 guys to block 4, it shouldn't be terribly complicated.

One would assume...

 

[captain stone]

Thus my suggestion that Bill execute a small trade-down for a 3rd-rounder, then take C/G Maurkice Pouncey as our Center of the (near) Future. He can also play RG when Neal misses his annual 4-6 games.

But if Bill doesn't feel that Vollmer can be a full-time LT, then perhaps Brown/Campbell/Saffold would be a better choice, esp. after a trade-down.

Either way, there should still be good Receivers & Pass-Rushers avail. during the 2nd round.

OxyKaczur has been our worst starting OLman. Vollmer has replaced him. Next on the (s)hit list is Koppen, but his replacement is not yet on the roster. That must change, the sooner the better. And as DH noted, give TFB more time, our Receivers get more open; and most importantly, TFB stays more healthy.

 

[bucky]

OR - the offense could start transitioning back to the pre-Moss days by BB taking a very good receiving TE like Pitta and then having Crumpler teach him how to block.

Thus we get back to the original post. Which TE do you take. My feeling is that there are a lot of mid-round TEs this year, but no sure things.

Gronkowski - probably the best of the bunch, but the back is a major major red flag.
Hernandez - might be the best receiving TE, but might suffer from a little of the Garrett Mills syndorme. Also apparently has character issues.
Gresham - I'm not a believer in this guy. Work ethic and football intelligence have been questions. Speed is just OK. Certainly not worth a top 50 pick.
McCoy - probably the best all around TE, but really just a late 2nd round prospect at best as far as the whole package goes.
Pitta - not sold that he's such a great receiving TE. Certainly not a guy who will stretch the field.
Moeaki - a little overhyped on this board. Not clear that his blocking skills are that good. Also underachieved in college and has been injury-prone.
****erson - really a WR pretending to be a TE.
Graham - a project.

Everyone else - falls into the category of either a blocking TE or receiving one. My preference would be to grab Colin Peek in the 4th-5th round area and fill the receiving need through some other channel - either go with an H-Back/Full back, or get some more WRs and play 3 WRs all the time.

 

[Marqui]

Bill doesn't feel that Vollmer can be a full-time LT

What happened last year that would cause Bill to feel that?

 

[Snake Eyes]

I also agree that we need at least 2 more legit Pass-Catchers, so that this offense can sustain more drives, convert more 3rd downs, and score more TDs instead of FGs. As long as one of those targets is a 2nd-round WR, then a TE like Gonzalez or Pitta would be an acceptable addition.

As for the OL, Bill needs to have the answer to this question by Draft Weekend:
Is Vollmer our LT of the Future?
If Yes, then OT becomes a late 3rd-day option.
If No (meaning that SeaBass is our RT-Only of the Future), then LT suddenly becomes a poss. 2nd-Round (Roger Saffold?) consideration.

If Vollmer moves back to LT who takes over at RT? I think that's a bit more important than a 3rd day decision.

 

[dryheat44]

Thus we get back to the original post. Which TE do you take. My feeling is that there are a lot of mid-round TEs this year, but no sure things.

Gronkowski - probably the best of the bunch, but the back is a major major red flag.
Hernandez - might be the best receiving TE, but might suffer from a little of the Garrett Mills syndorme. Also apparently has character issues.
Gresham - I'm not a believer in this guy. Work ethic and football intelligence have been questions. Speed is just OK. Certainly not worth a top 50 pick.
McCoy - probably the best all around TE, but really just a late 2nd round prospect at best as far as the whole package goes.
Pitta - not sold that he's such a great receiving TE. Certainly not a guy who will stretch the field.
Moeaki - a little overhyped on this board. Not clear that his blocking skills are that good. Also underachieved in college and has been injury-prone.
****erson - really a WR pretending to be a TE.
Graham - a project.

Everyone else - falls into the category of either a blocking TE or receiving one. My preference would be to grab Colin Peek in the 4th-5th round area and fill the receiving need through some other channel - either go with an H-Back/Full back, or get some more WRs and play 3 WRs all the time.

You feel the best all-round TE is McCoy? Really? I think his absolute ceiling is backup TE and special teams contributor. Probably the least athletic of all the ones you list, and not nearly a good enough blocker to offset that. It wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't drafted.

 

[BritPat]

Moeaki - a little overhyped on this board. Not clear that his blocking skills are that good. Also underachieved in college and has been injury-prone.

Tony Moeaki Scouting Report ? Draft Zoo

Strengths

Elite in-line blocking skills

National Football Post Front Office Total Access Pass Scouting Reports | National Football Post

He might be the best blocking tight end in the nation.

2010 NFL Draft: TE Scouting Reports

Pros: Inline Blocking

Tony Moeaki Scouting Report - DraftAce.com

An impressive blocker

 

[bucky]

Tony Moeaki Scouting Report ? Draft Zoo

National Football Post Front Office Total Access Pass Scouting Reports | National Football Post

2010 NFL Draft: TE Scouting Reports

Tony Moeaki Scouting Report - DraftAce.com

I'm aware of those. But then there are these.....

Tony Moeaki - Iowa - DraftTracker - ESPN

Needs development as an inline blocker. Fires off the ball but has issues with angles to the point of attack. Plays with too narrow of a base and struggles to get adequate push of the line of scrimmage. Also doesn't always bring feet upon contact and falls off blocks to easily. Seems to be better suited when having ability to gain momentum as a blocker when climbing to the second level or when lined up in the backfield as a lead blocker.

NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Tony Moeaki

He shows effort as a blocker but lacks the lower body strength to block with much power. His best shot may be as an H-back or a tight end that is generally split out and lined up off the line of scrimmage

 

[bucky]

You feel the best all-round TE is McCoy? Really? I think his absolute ceiling is backup TE and special teams contributor. Probably the least athletic of all the ones you list, and not nearly a good enough blocker to offset that. It wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't drafted.

As an overall package, I think he's up there. Hasn't had any injuries, but has had eligibility issues, which is not great either. And his production has been meager. So I would rate him as a 3rd round talent.

 

[captain stone]

What happened last year that would cause Bill to feel that?

I did say If...

Vollmer has had just a few games at LT, and sometimes had a little help, too. He did look VG vs. Freeney & the Dolts, so that's encouraging. But does he have the superior hand technique & lateral agility to compensate for his relatively short arm length? Bill's actions on Draft Weekend, and SeaBass' performance this season, will prob. tell us what we need to know.