Which legacy would be impacted more if they win a SB: Brady or Manning?

[Wheelman]

If Manning wins, it does more for him. Less people saying well he could never win it in the playoffs more than once.

If Manning doesn't win, he's still impacted more. People will say well once again he choked.

 

[supafly]

I think Manning needs a Super Bowl win this year or all he did may end up being for not with his legacy. This year is his best shot to win. He has statistically the best offense in league history and there are really no dominant teams. If he loses this weekend, it will give a huge blow to his legacy. Anything short of a Super Bowl win will diminish his accomplishments and cement his legacy of being a great regular season QB and not a winner.

I don't know if a Super Bowl win will do a heck of a lot for Brady's legacy. It will get him tied with Montana and Bradshaw for the most wins and give him the record for most appearances in the Super Bowl. But I still think he will need two more for the people who put Montana over him in the greatest of all time category.

I think in the seesaw battle by the media of who is better will sway to the winner of the Super Bowl if one of them wins, but I think Manning's legacy is more on the line right now on this playoff run.

I agree that Manning's ass is on the line more than Brady's, but I also think that if Brady simply wins one more SB, he will undoubtedly go down as the best in all time for the majority of opinions.

That would give him 4 wins + 2 more losses, and Brady will have done it during the modern era of free agency, with much lesser teams. He also holds many more records and has been a part of more statistical categories than Montana.

 

[supafly]

If Manning wins, it does more for him. Less people saying well he could never win it in the playoffs more than once.

If Manning doesn't win, he's still impacted more. People will say well once again he choked.

Unfortunately for Brady/Pats, if Manning wins one more SB this year, it will only narrow any gap between he and Tom, especially if Manning wins in the AFCCG over Tom Brady.

Just think of how many people already feel that there's some huge debate between the two, or how many people already feel that Manning is the better of the 2. Should he win another SB, it will make their opinions seem ever more justified in my opinion (although I'd never agree with them of course).

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

People will remember the records. Brady will probably never touch 50 again let alone get what Peyton got.

Look, I'm all on board with the idea that I'd rather have Tom Brady as my QB than any other QB in history but we're talking legacy here.

Nobody will remember what Tom Brady did this year, people already don't remember how we set injury records in 2003 and broke them in 2004. People don't remember what the seasons were like for Marino but they remembered the records he set.

I'm not advocating for Peyton I'm advocating for reality and the reality is that records will matter more to a player's legacy than winning a bunch of games with a rookie WR corps and more injuries to key players than I've ever seen.

^^^Sums it very well.

The argument is not about a dry logical look at the nuances of each QB's situation. The general public is not going to delve deep into the nuances, not even close to it. This thing is decided on the much much more simplistic; what player makes the bigger splash on FSPN, and subsequently gets greater and repeated love on FSPN(media). From there a large portion of the general public begin their parroting of what they see/hear (also answers the question why did spygate become such an overblown lie).
As Fnord points out perfectly, I'm not advocating for PM. While I certainly would take a PM-BB combo if push came to shove, I'd take Brady if I have a choice. That's beside the point thoug -- PM holds umpteen records that play well on FSPN and can be easily digested by a public largely uninterested in the more complex aspects of the question.

 

[supafly]

^^^Sums it very well.

The argument is not about a dry logical look at the nuances of each QB's situation. The general public is not going to delve deep into the nuances, not even close to it. This thing is decided on the much much more simplistic; what player makes the bigger splash on FSPN, and subsequently gets greater and repeated love on FSPN(media). From there a large portion of the general public begin their parroting of what they see/hear (also answers the question why did spygate become such an overblown lie).
As Fnord points out perfectly, I'm not advocating for PM. While I certainly would take a PM-BB combo if push came to shove, I'd take Brady if I have a choice. That's beside the point thoug -- PM holds umpteen records that play well on FSPN and can be easily digested by a public largely uninterested in the more complex aspects of the question.

While your thoughts certainly make a lot of sense, I think that Brady winning his 4th SB (with a total of 6 appearances) in the free agency era would cement his legacy quite nicely. I think that he certainly holds some very important records himself, along with team streaks of 21 and 18, the only perfect 16-0 regular season, the 3 SB's in 4 yrs aspect, and many other things.

On the other hand....if Peyton Manning wins a 2nd SB this year, it may help him to receive that praise from the general mediot/casual fan who already feels that he may be better than Brady.

It actually could be considered an important victory for either one of them in the modern day debate of Brady vs. Manning.

Just my opinion though, I hardly think there's any "right or wrong" here.

 

[Mountain_Commando]

If Manning wins the big one, he will be anointed the GOAT by practically everyone except Pats Fans.

If Brady wins the big one, he will still be regarded as second to Joe Cool because of the latter's flawless SB record and no INTs in SB.

Not saying either of the above is fair, but these are the simplistic measures of the average analyst and casual (majority) NFL fans.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Unfortunately for Brady/Pats, if Manning wins one more SB this year, it will only narrow any gap between he and Tom, especially if Manning wins in the AFCCG over Tom Brady.

Just think of how many people already feel that there's some huge debate between the two, or how many people already feel that Manning is the better of the 2. Should he win another SB, it will make their opinions seem ever more justified in my opinion (although I'd never agree with them of course).

I don't disagree with your underlying belief, however, I think this reality's traction is largely limited to Patriots Nation. Outside of Patriots Nation the debate favors PM, IME. I think it was the Sharpe-Marino-Brown-Cowher-??? Sunday round table show that outright (and I think unanimously) stated PM is GOAT. Assuming they are not the only widely watched NFL pundits to do this (meaning it's being repeated sufficiently) that's all a good chunk of the general public needs to hear to form their opinion.

I believe a very good argument can be made that PM is RS-GOAT (Regular Season - GOAT). No it's not a certainty but what he has done in Septembers-Decembers with different teams/HCs is arguably as good as any QB to play the game. So given that, the high profile records he holds, the love he gets from media, and (for whatever reason) the name PM doesn't get connected to post season failure by many in the general viewing public(IME), the GOAT debate swings PM's way.

 

[supafly]

I don't disagree with your underlying belief, however, I think this reality's traction is largely limited to Patriots Nation. Outside of Patriots Nation the debate favors PM, IME. I think it was the Sharpe-Marino-Brown-Cowher-??? Sunday round table show that outright (and I think unanimously) stated PM is GOAT. Assuming they are not the only widely watched NFL pundits to do this (meaning it's being repeated sufficiently) that's all a good chunk of the general public needs to hear to form their opinion.

I believe a very good argument can be made that PM is RS-GOAT (Regular Season - GOAT). No it's not a certainty but what he has done in Septembers-Decembers with different teams/HCs is arguably as good as any QB to play the game. So given that, the high profile records he holds, the love he gets from media, and (for whatever reason) the name PM doesn't get connected to post season failure by many in the general viewing public(IME), the GOAT debate swings PM's way.

There's a lot of sense in what you say, and I agree that way too many of the media members and average fans feel that he's the better of the 2, but one more one/done or even an AFCCG loss this year may start to get people to realize his 9-11 (with EIGHT one and done apperances) postseason record a bit more, which also makes him the QB with the most postseason losses.

As we know of course, Tom Brady is the QB with the most postseason wins, and holds a lot of very nice records over Manning himself. One more SB victory would go an awful long way, no matter which way it falls (IMO). Unfortunately, the odds are favoring Manning much more this 2013 season, at least at the moment anyway.

In the end, if Brady wins 4/6 appearances with one more victory, I think some of those roundtable idiots that you speak of would have no other choice. The modern media is a "what have you done for me lately" mindset, and it just so happens that Manning is the popular one at the moment due to his record setting regular season. In the end, if I HAD to wager money, I think I'd have a hard time going against Manning to represent the AFC. I'm just too concerned that we may come up a bit short due to the insane circumstances. That said, there's also a voice inside of me that reminds me that this 2013 team has a ton of heart, fortitude, and continues to overcome any and all challenges and adversity that is thrown at them in many circumstances. We'll have to see how it plays out.

 

[coolguy]

There's a lot of sense in what you say, and I agree that way too many of the media members and average fans feel that he's the better of the 2, but one more one/done or even an AFCCG loss this year may start to get people to realize his 9-11 (with EIGHT one and done apperances) postseason record a bit more, which also makes him the QB with the most postseason losses.

As we know of course, Tom Brady is the QB with the most postseason wins, and holds a lot of very nice records over Manning himself. One more SB victory would go an awful long way, no matter which way it falls (IMO). Unfortunately, the odds are favoring Manning much more this 2013 season, at least at the moment anyway.

In the end, if Brady wins 4/6 appearances with one more victory, I think some of those roundtable idiots that you speak of would have no other choice. The modern media is a "what have you done for me lately" mindset, and it just so happens that Manning is the popular one at the moment due to his record setting regular season. In the end, if I HAD to wager money, I think I'd have a hard time going against Manning to represent the AFC. I'm just too concerned that we may come up a bit short due to the insane circumstances. That said, there's also a voice inside of me that reminds me that this 2013 team has a ton of heart, fortitude, and continues to overcome any and all challenges and adversity that is thrown at them in many circumstances. We'll have to see how it plays out.

I love tom, but his superbowl run has given him an edge over every other qb. Tom started his career 10-0 in the playoffs . It's also fair to say tom and the patriots are going through a championship drought right now.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

There's a lot of sense in what you say, and I agree that way too many of the media members and average fans feel that he's the better of the 2, but one more one/done or even an AFCCG loss this year may start to get people to realize his 9-11 (with EIGHT one and done apperances) postseason record a bit more, which also makes him the QB with the most postseason losses.

As we know of course, Tom Brady is the QB with the most postseason wins, and holds a lot of very nice records over Manning himself. One more SB victory would go an awful long way, no matter which way it falls (IMO). Unfortunately, the odds are favoring Manning much more this 2013 season, at least at the moment anyway.

In the end, if Brady wins 4/6 appearances with one more victory, I think some of those roundtable idiots that you speak of would have no other choice. The modern media is a "what have you done for me lately" mindset, and it just so happens that Manning is the popular one at the moment due to his record setting regular season. In the end, if I HAD to wager money, I think I'd have a hard time going against Manning to represent the AFC. I'm just too concerned that we may come up a bit short due to the insane circumstances. That said, there's also a voice inside of me that reminds me that this 2013 team has a ton of heart, fortitude, and continues to overcome any and all challenges and adversity that is thrown at them in many circumstances. We'll have to see how it plays out.

I tell ya Sup, I have less faith in the "process" than you. This is the same process that allowed the tiny mole hill called spygate to become a gigantic lie. It's the same process that made Brett Favre hyper-glorified even though he was a 1 time SB winner that, to me, was an egotistical crud. IMHO most of these pundits will not have their minds changed so easily. Just like much of it sold Favre and never really backtracked away from that even with multiple unfavorable Favre stories out there, they are not so easily going to backtrack from Manning. IMHO the Patriots winning the SB this year will not substantially change their stated views. Now if Manning wins the SB? This single event will cement Manning as GOAT no matter what he does from here.

Not that I care about what "they" think but what they think heavily influences general public opinion. And I take enjoyment from seeing Brady get the accolades.....

 

[DarrylS]

I do not see either legacy becoming impacted at all... We deify guys like Marino, Elway more and more as time passes. In reality both Peyton and Brady are more successful than either of them..

In 10-20 years from now we will not remember the losses only the wins... both Manning's and Brady's legacies have been cemented...

 

[BSR]

I think Mannings legacy will be improved more with a win only because regular season stats are what carries him at this point. He needs a good post season.

As for the regular season stats, we are living in the juice ball era equivalent of football. Marino's TD record stood for 20 years unchallenged. Rules change and the record changes 3 times in 10 years. Same goes with the yardage record and I don't even know who owned it before because nobody ever talked about it then. Even in the past stats were footnotes, they will become even less impressive as single season records continue to get beaten over and over again.

 

[shmessy]

I don't know if a Super Bowl win will do a heck of a lot for Brady's legacy. It will get him tied with Montana and Bradshaw for the most wins and give him the record for most appearances in the Super Bowl. But I still think he will need two more for the people who put Montana over him in the greatest of all time category.

I can't agree with that.

Both Montana and Bradshaw played in the pre-salary cap era. Their teams were loaded and stayed together for decade plus. Brady plays in the salary cap era, and (other than Slater) is the only currently active player still on the roster from even the 2008 version. Further, he is the ONLY player on the team that was there at the 1st SB win. Go look at Montana's 49ers and Bradshaw's Steelers - - there were several still on those teams from the first to the last.

IF he wins a 4th, his accomplishment is FAR greater than any other QB in NFL history.

 

[stevedogc]

I say Manning. I think Manning needs another SB just to get back in the conversation of greatest QB. We all know what the numbers are. 9-11 playoff record. 8 one and done's. 3 td, 7 int, 70.5 rating in his only SB championship. Im still amazed his 2006 performance doesn't get more talk. I looked it up (yes, I have to much time on my hands). That playoff stat line is the 2nd worst ever for a superbowl winning QB. In fact, if you really look at it, Manning played 16 qtrs. of football that post season. He played up to his level in only 2 qtrs. that post season, the 3rd and 4th against the Pats. Yes, I realize that he was key in the Colts comeback vs the Pats, but take out those two qtrs. and his stat line becomes 83 of 129 for 809 2 tds, 7 ints, 64.4 rating.

 

[Rob0729]

Wrong.

Both Montana and Bradshaw played in the pre-salary cap era. Their teams were loaded and stayed together for decade plus. Brady plays in the salary cap era, and (other than Slater) is the only currently active player on the roster still on the team from even the 2008 version. Further, he is the only player on the team that was there at the 1st SB win. Go look at Montana's 49ers and Bradshaw's Steelers - - there were several still on those teams from the first to the last.

IF he wins a 4th, his accomplishment is FAR greater than any other QB in NFL history.

We are talking legacy which is basically public opinion. A large segment of people have him the greatest of all time because he has gone to five Super Bowls and won three with several very different teams. People who think that way won't change their opinion of him if he wins another.

I am saying that the people who think Montana is the greatest won't move the bar if Brady wins another one. For most of these people to move the bar, he will have to have win five Super Bowls.

 

[Fencer]

One guy can increase his ring count by 100%, the other by 33%.

Special features: Brady can greatly extend the time period from first to last championship; Manning could win with a second franchise.

Context: Brady started out as super-duper post-season winner, but now his post-season track record is merely good/very good. Winning another ring would move him up to very good/excellent. Manning's post-season track record is in the range of poor/very poor; winning another ring would move him up to good.

I think Manning's legacy has more to gain.

 

[Brady6]

Manning's legacy is on the line more IMO. His team is at it's peak too. If he doesn't win it this year, he probably will never win a SB again.

The Broncos are most likely losing Decker to FA to some team that will pay him 7-9 million a year as a WR1. Moreno may be lost as well. The most overpowered offense in NFL history will soon become this in 2014:

QB: 38 year old Manning
RB: Ball
TE: Thomas
WR: Thomas
WR: ???
WR: 33 year old Welker

Not as frightening as the 2013 version. Then in 2014, Demaryius Thomas, Julius Thomas, Wes Welker, and Von Miller are all free agents. This team's window is closing shortly, while the Pats roster should be loaded for Brady's last few years.

The Broncos would be smart to cut Welker and use that money to retain Decker. Welker is likely a few hits to the head away from retirement.

 

[shmessy]

We are talking legacy which is basically public opinion. A large segment of people have him the greatest of all time because he has gone to five Super Bowls and won three with several very different teams. People who think that way won't change their opinion of him if he wins another.

I am saying that the people who think Montana is the greatest won't move the bar if Brady wins another one. For most of these people to move the bar, he will have to have win five Super Bowls.

OK. I hear ya.

 

[fair catch fryar]

If anything I think it will have the same impact on either. Both of their legacies are cemented, a SB win will only improve it for either one. There's going to be 'haters' and 'ballwashers' for each and those that can appreciate the 'greatness' of both. A win for Brady or Manning will only enhance that for both IMO.

 

[dales804]

This is a good question. I've concluded that it would do more for Brady. Right now, most people consider Manning to be the better QB. We've all seen or heard the discussion about how the Patriots haven't won anything post-camera in the wrong spot-gate. If the Patriots win the SB this year, it means Peyton lost again in the playoffs as a favorite, at home. Any time someone might say how great Peyton is, they could point to Brady and say how he was won 4 SBs, been to 6 and his amazing numbers and longevity.

That's just a better resume, in my opinion. Peyton will still have the regular season records but be looking at playoff futility as his legacy, kind of like Marino. It would be acknowledged that Peyton is an excellent QB just not on the level of Brady (or Montana).

Of course, this isn't their last year playing, I don't think, so it's all subject to change.