What players from the 05 team are on the bubble??

[Pats726]

I know it may be a bit early to discuss this, but given the quietness of the forum, the threads stretching in any all directions...I thought it might be time to see who is on the bubble this year.
<<<BUBBLE>>>
QB Brady, Cassel (BUBBLE) NONE
RB/FB Dillon, Faulk (BUBBLE) Evans, Pass
WR Branch, TBrown (BUBBLE) BJohnson, Childress
TE Graham, Watson (BUBBLE) NONE
OL Koppen(IR),Light(IR), Neal, Kaczur, Hochstein, Mankins (BUBBLE)
Mruczkowski, Yates, Gorin, Tucker
DL Seymour, Wilfork, Green, Warren (BUBBLE) Hill, Klecko, Thomas, Wright(IR)
LB Bruschi, Vrabel, Colvin, Beisel, Banta-Cain (BUBBLE) Izzo, Davis, Claridge(IR), Alexander (PSqd)
DB Hobbs, Samuel, Wilson, Harrison(IR), Sanders, Hawkins, Gay (BUBBLE) Poteat, GScott(IR), CScorrr(IR)
ST Miller, Paxton (BUBBLE) NONE

There were a few that were a bit harder and on the "bubble" of the bubble so to speak. Gorin I thought was close to being NOT on the bubble, but I could see cases where they might go young, more versatile and he would be the odd lineman out. On the other hand, Hochstein I think will make the squad as he is a solid backup inside at all 3 positions. With Koppen injured, he may start on PUP, leaving Hochstein as the experienced starter at C. Banta-Cain was another who I thought was close. ST wise, there may be better players, but he knows the system and with WIllie gone would at worst
be the 3rd OLB (Unless there is a large surprise in camp.) My thinking is he would stay at least another year. Gay might be closer to the bubble, but there would have to a vet added (like Law) and others would have to really shine before they would cut him. He would really have to totally sink; none of these seems likely.
As to others, with Mills in camp, he will push Evans and Pass for a FB spot.
Pass does have versatile play and that will help him. BethelJ has not been anywhere close to where he should be as a 2nd round pick. If he steps it up, great, but if he doesn't, he may be gone. (A trade now might be wise, if they feel he's a definite goner in camp.) As for the line, with so many in competition, it's hard to insure spots to those on the border. Tucker might be
more on an inside track (with Gorin), but I don't think that insures a spot.
Any of the 4, (Hill, Wright, Thomas or Klecko) could be gone, but with only draftee Smith and 2 UDFAs, one or two may stay. But as to who that might be, TC will tell all. I don't think Claridge is guaranteed a spot but he should make the 53. Izzo and Davis are vet STers but they are in competition with many others, which is the way it should be. Alexander has been on IR and the PSqd, but I believe he may have had his eligibity run out, having been on the Squad in 04 and 05 at times. POteat, and the Scotts given injuries and
depth of competition are certanly not sure roster spots.
I do think camp will be very competitive, which is all that any fan can ask for.

 

[mcsully]

Looking quickly without a thought.. Biesel is definitely on the bubble..
On the other end, Hill is goign to be around because of his youth and his cheap salary.
but definitely Biesel is on his way out if he doesn't shop anything..

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

I agree with your assesment for the most part.

You did leave out all the UDFA and other fringe player... I assume you figure they are too lousy to even make the bubble?

Also, I think Hill and Claridge would have to really F up cut this year.... especially Claridge... we just drafted him last year and he was on IR all year.

 

[bucky]

There are very few changes I would make to your list, but here they are:

Gorin and Izzo are not on the bubble. Izzo is still the best ST player on the team and Gorin will probably be around 1 more year. BB often starts out with 9 OL knowing that eventually someone will miss a good chunk of time.

Sanders and Banta-Cain are on the bubble. Sanders had an opportunity to step in and play last year, much like Hobbs. But unlike Hobbs, he showed he wasn't ready. He has to show major improvement this year because there are plenty of DBs trying to make this roster. TBC is a tough one. On one hand, he's one of only 3 OLBs on the roster with any experience. On the other hand, he doesn't have any experience to speak of and his ST contributions are only average. TBC has 2 ways to make the roster - 1) he shows that he's ready to be a contributor at OLB on every down, or 2) Nobody else on the roster shows enough ability to even step onto the field at OLB. If neither of those happens, TBC could be gone.

 

[Poll]

What does being on a bubble mean?

 

[spacecrime]

What does being on a bubble mean?

It only takes one prick to burst your bubble.

ANyway, I agree with the original assessment except for Claridge and Hill.

Clarlidge was a fifth round pick who was on IR all year. Why is he on the bubble? It doen't make sense. There had been nothing to evaluate yet. He needs to be with the team, and not show improvement to be onthe bubble.

Hill was a project when they took him. They don't expect to get production from normal rookies, so it ies reasonable to expect they won't get production from projects for at least two years. If he could produce after one, he wouldn't have been a project. Right now, the big knock on him is that he hasn't pressed Seymour and Warren for playing time. Okay. I think the would have to stink up the joing very badly to get cut this summer.

 

[edzo44]

What does being on a bubble mean?

50-50 Chance of being cut or staying. Dead even. You have to put on a good show in TC to stay on the team somehow and one really bad play or weakness could push you out the door!

 

[Pats726]

You did leave out all the UDFA and other fringe player... I assume you figure they are too lousy to even make the bubble?

No actually the thread was ONLY about the 05 players that were on the team and were on the bubble...those that might be ex-Patriots..so to speak. (Hence the title of the thread)
As for Claridge and Hill...Clarifge might be closer to a lock..but can't one see
cases that he may be more on the PSqd..not ready?? Hill might be cheaper, but would they just keep him if others showed more progress?? Maybe so...

 

[Pats726]

There are very few changes I would make to your list, but here they are:

Gorin and Izzo are not on the bubble. Izzo is still the best ST player on the team and Gorin will probably be around 1 more year. BB often starts out with 9 OL knowing that eventually someone will miss a good chunk of time.

Sanders and Banta-Cain are on the bubble. Sanders had an opportunity to step in and play last year, much like Hobbs. But unlike Hobbs, he showed he wasn't ready. He has to show major improvement this year because there are plenty of DBs trying to make this roster. TBC is a tough one. On one hand, he's one of only 3 OLBs on the roster with any experience. On the other hand, he doesn't have any experience to speak of and his ST contributions are only average. TBC has 2 ways to make the roster - 1) he shows that he's ready to be a contributor at OLB on every down, or 2) Nobody else on the roster shows enough ability to even step onto the field at OLB. If neither of those happens, TBC could be gone.

As for Gorin and Izzo...I could see Gorin being the odd one out if others are more versatile and younger. Is there a financial reason to keep Gorin (or not)?? If there is a reason NOT to cut him..then being off the bubble might be MORE correct. If they gain a bit more monry by cutting him and it comes down to him or a rook, he may be the odd one out. I just don't think he's a lock with all the linemen. As far as Izzo goes, he may have been the best STer, no doubt, but if he slows down a bit, he COULD be beaten out by others. NOT saying it is probable...but possible..hence the bubble. As for Banta-Cain, that was a tough one that was close...but I just think being the 3rd OLB (the only one with experience) it makes him hard to cut. Sanders is only in his 2nd year and was injured for a lot of last year (the first part). Don't think they would cut him in his 2nd year (unless he fails dramatically.)

 

[bucky]

For Sanders, a lack of significant improvement would be failure, IMO. Last year, he beat out Dexter Reid for a roster spot. This year, he's more in Dexter's shoes himself.

Another thing to point out is that a player's "bubble status" might change as TC proceeds. For example, Gorin might be on the bubble now, but if TC starts and Light is still rehabbing his leg, Gorin immediately becomes close to a lock. A guy like Hawkins or Gay - we might think he's a lock now, but if he spends all of TC being hurt, he ends up on the bubble. In Izzo's case, obviously he has to keep up his level of play. Based on last year, I'm not sure he's slowed down enough to put him on the bubble at this point.

 

[patsox23]

Am I insane or do you have Kevin Faulk and Ben Watson inexplicably on the bubble???? You can't be serious. Please explain.

Oops - I get it now. Good list. I agree about Gorin. He is MAJOR bubble.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I don't think Gorin is on the bubble for three reasons. First both Kazcur and Light are coming off injuries. Second Ashworth is gone, no other experienced tackles on the roster. Third I see Callagan (the guy we drafted this year) as an OG and not an OT in the NFL.
I also think that Sanders is pretty safe also. He was only 20-21 years old last year. The youngest guy on the roster. He lacked the physical maturity needed to play in the NFL. However when he was in there, he showed some serious ball skills and tackling ability. He would really need to tank it to not make the squad.
If Wright has spent this offseason, bulking up and putting on a few pounds, I think he has a legitimate shot at keeping Lekevin Smith on the PS.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

No actually the thread was ONLY about the 05 players that were on the team and were on the bubble...those that might be ex-Patriots..so to speak. (Hence the title of the thread)
As for Claridge and Hill...Clarifge might be closer to a lock..but can't one see
cases that he may be more on the PSqd..not ready?? Hill might be cheaper, but would they just keep him if others showed more progress?? Maybe so...

Roger that. When I grow up, I'm going to learn how to read.

To answer your question, I do see scenarios where Hill and/or Claridge could be excluded from the 53 man roster.... but that is not the same as saying they are on the bubble... to me, that means it is 50-50 or worse as to whether or not they make it. I don't see either of them being that vulnerable.... more like
Claridge: 80% of making the roster
Hill: 70% of making the roster

Just my opinion of course. Both were promissing draft picks... I see us carrying them another year unless they stink up the joint.

For those who think TBC is on the bubble, I reply that he is on the bubble as to whether or not he starts at OLB, not whether he makes the team. Watch some game tape from late last season. He got some playing time and looked good IMO.

 

[Pats726]

The grayness of the bubble...what I meant..and a shade of bubble!!!

50-50 Chance of being cut or staying. Dead even. You have to put on a good show in TC to stay on the team somehow and one really bad play or weakness could push you out the door!

Actually, when I started it, I defined (for myself) BUBBLE as less than 80-20 of making the team...fighting FOR a position much more than others. Just looking for those who were on the roster from last year. On review, and with posters' comments and more logic, it makes more sense to see it as a sliding scale from those who are closer to making it 75-25 say and say 20-80...There's a whole world of difference than say "BUBBLE" or not. There are certainly gradations. Also, it must be noted that it changes as players are added and as injuries and other things happen, so it is a fluid situation.
Given the range of possibilities....
I'll try to break the bubble down a bit closer....(and even here there will be disagreements..but,,,I think it may be closer at this point...)
80-20 Gorin, Sanders, Biesel, Banta-Cain
70-30 Hill, Izzo, Gay
60-40 Claridge, Childress
50--50 BJohnson, Wright
40-60 Pass, Tucker, Davis, CScott
30-70 Evans, Mruczkowski, Klecko, GScott
20-80 Yates, Thomas, Alexander, Poteat

And with players added..say a Ty Law, any CBs chances may be reduced.
If Light or Koppen start on PUP, then OL may have better chances. It's just an interestinf discussion for the off season down time.

 

[DaBruinz]

While Izzo and Davis were 2 of the Pats "best" special teamers last year, the fact remains that our special teams units, Particularly the kick return and punt coverage teams, did not do well. Izzo and Davis were two major players on those teams. Its one reason the Pats brought back Tebucky and also brought in Mel Mitchell.

One can only hope that Brad Seely can put together a unit that blocks better for kick-offs and doesn't take as many stupid penalties. That was one of the biggest problems last year with the special teams. They took too many penalties. One of the culprits, Matt Chatham, is gone. TBC, another one, is probably on his last chance. Mincey, Roach, Mitchell, and Jones should be able to push for spots there.

 

[SamBamsFan]

I know it may be a bit early to discuss this, but given the quietness of the forum, the threads stretching in any all directions...I thought it might be time to see who is on the bubble this year.
<<<BUBBLE>>>
QB Brady, Cassel (BUBBLE) NONE
RB/FB Dillon, Faulk (BUBBLE) Evans, Pass
WR Branch, TBrown (BUBBLE) BJohnson, Childress
TE Graham, Watson (BUBBLE) NONE
OL Koppen(IR),Light(IR), Neal, Kaczur, Hochstein, Mankins (BUBBLE)
Mruczkowski, Yates, Gorin, Tucker
DL Seymour, Wilfork, Green, Warren (BUBBLE) Hill, Klecko, Thomas, Wright(IR)
LB Bruschi, Vrabel, Colvin, Beisel, Banta-Cain (BUBBLE) Izzo, Davis, Claridge(IR), Alexander (PSqd)
DB Hobbs, Samuel, Wilson, Harrison(IR), Sanders, Hawkins, Gay (BUBBLE) Poteat, GScott(IR), CScorrr(IR)
ST Miller, Paxton (BUBBLE) NONE

There were a few that were a bit harder and on the "bubble" of the bubble so to speak. Gorin I thought was close to being NOT on the bubble, but I could see cases where they might go young, more versatile and he would be the odd lineman out. On the other hand, Hochstein I think will make the squad as he is a solid backup inside at all 3 positions. With Koppen injured, he may start on PUP, leaving Hochstein as the experienced starter at C. Banta-Cain was another who I thought was close. ST wise, there may be better players, but he knows the system and with WIllie gone would at worst
be the 3rd OLB (Unless there is a large surprise in camp.) My thinking is he would stay at least another year. Gay might be closer to the bubble, but there would have to a vet added (like Law) and others would have to really shine before they would cut him. He would really have to totally sink; none of these seems likely.
As to others, with Mills in camp, he will push Evans and Pass for a FB spot.
Pass does have versatile play and that will help him. BethelJ has not been anywhere close to where he should be as a 2nd round pick. If he steps it up, great, but if he doesn't, he may be gone. (A trade now might be wise, if they feel he's a definite goner in camp.) As for the line, with so many in competition, it's hard to insure spots to those on the border. Tucker might be
more on an inside track (with Gorin), but I don't think that insures a spot.
Any of the 4, (Hill, Wright, Thomas or Klecko) could be gone, but with only draftee Smith and 2 UDFAs, one or two may stay. But as to who that might be, TC will tell all. I don't think Claridge is guaranteed a spot but he should make the 53. Izzo and Davis are vet STers but they are in competition with many others, which is the way it should be. Alexander has been on IR and the PSqd, but I believe he may have had his eligibity run out, having been on the Squad in 04 and 05 at times. POteat, and the Scotts given injuries and
depth of competition are certanly not sure roster spots.
I do think camp will be very competitive, which is all that any fan can ask for.

I just finished writing checks out so excuse me while I do a little math. First let me say I agree w/ your assessments. I think Gorin, & Izzo are safe, but let's use your list:
QBs- 2
RBs- 2
WRs- 2
TEs-2
OL- 2
DL- 2
LBs- 5
DBs- 7
STs- 2

That totals 32 of 53 spots. Obviously, someone will place kick, and we need a third QB ( he might be a ps, but I doubt it). I'll give spots to Maroney, CJackson, DThomas, GMills, & R O'Callaghan. R Caldwell would really have to mess up not to have a spot (though I said the same about Terrell before last years tc). I think 2 of the 3 DB fa signees make it (from Warfield, TJones, & MMitchell). That brings you to 42 of 53 & looks like this:
QBs- 3
RBs- 3 (I'm calling Mills a TE here)
WRs- 4
TEs- 4
OL- 7
DL- 4
LBs- 5
DBs- 9
STs- 3
There's going to be some big fights for roster positions here...
I know this overlaps the 53 man thread of last week, but the layout on the start of this thread just got me to thinking...

 

[onegameatatime]

"I just finished writing checks out"

Are you Steve DeOssie and it's alimony time?

***

I do not see why Claridge would not be on the bubble -- he was a 5th rounder. Some guys in the 5th and below do not even make it into the first year.

Someone said Hill was a project. Wasn't he an early second rounder? The fact that he has almost no playing time in two years says something is not working. He was from LSU, I believe, so you would think we had a reliable recommendation!

I'd be very surprised if Izzo were cut.

I'd like to see Childress in and Bethel out.

 

[PATSNUTme]

What if they are in the bubble? Is that better or worst than being on the bubble?

 

[DaBruinz]

"I just finished writing checks out"

Are you Steve DeOssie and it's alimony time?

***

I do not see why Claridge would not be on the bubble -- he was a 5th rounder. Some guys in the 5th and below do not even make it into the first year.

Someone said Hill was a project. Wasn't he an early second rounder? The fact that he has almost no playing time in two years says something is not working. He was from LSU, I believe, so you would think we had a reliable recommendation!

I'd be very surprised if Izzo were cut.

I'd like to see Childress in and Bethel out.

Nothing like Checking your facts.
1) Please name me a Patriots 5th round draft pick that wasn't given a chance to play under Belichick and Pioli. I can't think of one unless it was in 2000.

2) Sanders and Claridge aren't likely to be on the bubble. Claridge was IRed after reports said he looked very good in camp. He injured his shoulder. Sanders was one of the youngest players in the league last year and was learning a very complicated position.

3) Marquis Hill was drafted 64th in 2004. That means he was the last pick of the 2nd round. NOT a high 2nd rounder. Hill was drafted as a project. That's known fact. It hasn't helped his development that he has Green, Seymour, and Warren in front of him so its very hard for him to get playing time.

4) Your playing time scenario is unfounded. As I said has Warren, Seymour and Green playing in front of him. Since you seem to have missed it, the Pats had injury issues each of the last 2 years that would have kept him from getting playing time.

5) Why would you be surprised if a soon to be 32 year old Izzo would be cut? He's wasn't the best player on special teams last year. That was Michael Stone. Who decided to go to the Texans. The Pats have also brought in Mel Mitchell and Tebucky Jones for special teams play. Also, the special teams play has been mediocre at best the last 2 years. Except for the Punting that is. That has been awesome. The coverage, though, has been lousy.

6) I think that Bam Childress is the heir apperent to Troy Brown. Not Bethel Johnson.

 

[Pats726]

I just finished writing checks out so excuse me while I do a little math. First let me say I agree w/ your assessments. I think Gorin, & Izzo are safe, but let's use your list:
QBs- 2
RBs- 2
WRs- 2
TEs-2
OL- 2
DL- 2
LBs- 5
DBs- 7
STs- 2

That totals 32 of 53 spots. Obviously, someone will place kick, and we need a third QB ( he might be a ps, but I doubt it). I'll give spots to Maroney, CJackson, DThomas, GMills, & R O'Callaghan. R Caldwell would really have to mess up not to have a spot (though I said the same about Terrell before last years tc). I think 2 of the 3 DB fa signees make it (from Warfield, TJones, & MMitchell). That brings you to 42 of 53 & looks like this:
QBs- 3
RBs- 3 (I'm calling Mills a TE here)
WRs- 4
TEs- 4
OL- 7
DL- 4
LBs- 5
DBs- 9
STs- 3
There's going to be some big fights for roster positions here...
I know this overlaps the 53 man thread of last week, but the layout on the start of this thread just got me to thinking...

It IS an interesting way to look at the roster...given who will make it and who MAY NOT....If we add Izzo and Gorin, there are 44...with 9 spots open. With possible additions at WR, OL, DL (VERY much needed), LB (needed) and DB; taking into account SPers...returners and those covering. VERY interesting view.