What players from the 05 team are on the bubble??

[JoeSixPat]

I wouldn't call him a bubble player, but I can't help but wonder if there isn't a plausible scenario in which Graham gets traded.

I appreciate his devastating blocks as much as the next guy, but given what took place in the draft, it doesn't look to me like Graham is going to be a priority FA for the team to re-sign.

I think they'd hapilly go through the season giving the rookies time to develop - but should one of them demonstrate a decent ability to block, and show the good hands they did in college, I can see another team beset by traning camp injuries, making the proveribial "offer you can't refuse" to land a quality guy with one year remaining on his contract and re-sign him to a cap friendly deal

 

[PatsFanInVa]

WR Bubble boy: Bethel Johnson
Bubble Kicker (already): Martin Grammatica
Next year's cap bubble, unless he restructures - LB: Rosie Colvin (some guys could be on the money bubble after all.)

All of them except possibly Grammatica make the 53, don't get me wrong. But the Turk might be coming for them soon enough...

PFnV

 

[bucky]

Nothing like Checking your facts.
1) Please name me a Patriots 5th round draft pick that wasn't given a chance to play under Belichick and Pioli. I can't think of one unless it was in 2000.

How about Brock Williams, Cedric Cobbs and PK Sam? That's 3.

5) Why would you be surprised if a soon to be 32 year old Izzo would be cut? He's wasn't the best player on special teams last year. That was Michael Stone. Who decided to go to the Texans. The Pats have also brought in Mel Mitchell and Tebucky Jones for special teams play. Also, the special teams play has been mediocre at best the last 2 years. Except for the Punting that is. That has been awesome. The coverage, though, has been lousy.

So 32 year old Izzo is too old, but 32 year old Tebucky is an improvement? Seems to me that if you want to improve your special teams, you keep the best ST players and replace the other ones. By the way, Tebucky and Mitchell are both gunners. They don't compete for time against Izzo.

 

[DaBruinz]

How about Brock Williams, Cedric Cobbs and PK Sam? That's 3.

Bucky - Nice to know that you don't do your homework too well. Cedric Cobbs and PK Sam BOTH saw game time with the Patriots. Williams was IRed for 2 years straight in TRAINING CAMP. Different situation entirely. Examples should have been players of 5th round or HIGHER who were cut in their 1st season. NONE of the examples you offered qualify.

So 32 year old Izzo is too old, but 32 year old Tebucky is an improvement? Seems to me that if you want to improve your special teams, you keep the best ST players and replace the other ones. By the way, Tebucky and Mitchell are both gunners. They don't compete for time against Izzo.

Izzo was not very good last year and he was tied for the lead in special teams tackles or maybe had 1 more than Michael Stone did. And Stone played in less games. And the coverage teams have been mediocre at best the last 2 years. And, yes, a 32 year old Tebucky, who hasn't lost his speed and hitting ability as a gunner, is an UPGRADE on the coverage units.

How is it that you can't actually deal with what is said in the posts, bucky?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I actually liked Stone and thought he had a shot at regular PT, but besides being a strong hitter at SS, he failed to develop on the field. Guess BB thought Stone had maxed out his upside.

 

[DaBruinz]

I actually liked Stone and thought he had a shot at regular PT, but besides being a strong hitter at SS, he failed to develop on the field. Guess BB thought Stone had maxed out his upside.

The Pats offered Stone a contract to come back. Granted, it was the Vet Min, but he turned it down. He then signed a vet min contract with the Texans. Go Figure.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

How about Brock Williams, Cedric Cobbs and PK Sam? That's 3.

I agree that it is possible for a 5th round or higher draft pick to be cut before he has really had an adequate chance to prove himself. However, I still say it is rare.

Brock Williams never recovered from an injury he sustained.

I don't remember if injuries affected Sam or Cobbs, so they might be the exceptions.

There is also Dave Stachelski (4th rounder) who got "Home Sick" and never played a down for us. I like to criticize "Mommy's Boy" at every oportunity.

 

[DaBruinz]

I agree that it is possible for a 5th round or higher draft pick to be cut before he has really had an adequate chance to prove himself. However, I still say it is rare.

Brock Williams never recovered from an injury he sustained.

I don't remember if injuries affected Sam or Cobbs, so they might be the exceptions.

There is also Dave Stachelski (4th rounder) who got "Home Sick" and never played a down for us. I like to criticize "Mommy's Boy" at every oportunity.

Stalcheclski was drafted in 2000 using the Booby Grier draft board.

Sam was with the Patriots for 2 years.
Cobbs spent a full season on the Pats squad, and wasn't cut until the following training camp.

Brock Williams took 2 years to recover from his injury and the Pats had given him an injury settlement. He's since played in the league and was with the Raiders last season.

 

[onegameatatime]

Nothing like Checking your facts.
1) Please name me a Patriots 5th round draft pick that wasn't given a chance to play under Belichick and Pioli. I can't think of one unless it was in 2000.

2) Sanders and Claridge aren't likely to be on the bubble. Claridge was IRed after reports said he looked very good in camp. He injured his shoulder. Sanders was one of the youngest players in the league last year and was learning a very complicated position.

3) Marquis Hill was drafted 64th in 2004. That means he was the last pick of the 2nd round. NOT a high 2nd rounder. Hill was drafted as a project. That's known fact. It hasn't helped his development that he has Green, Seymour, and Warren in front of him so its very hard for him to get playing time.

4) Your playing time scenario is unfounded. As I said has Warren, Seymour and Green playing in front of him. Since you seem to have missed it, the Pats had injury issues each of the last 2 years that would have kept him from getting playing time.

5) Why would you be surprised if a soon to be 32 year old Izzo would be cut? He's wasn't the best player on special teams last year. That was Michael Stone. Who decided to go to the Texans. The Pats have also brought in Mel Mitchell and Tebucky Jones for special teams play. Also, the special teams play has been mediocre at best the last 2 years. Except for the Punting that is. That has been awesome. The coverage, though, has been lousy.

6) I think that Bam Childress is the heir apperent to Troy Brown. Not Bethel Johnson.[/QUOTE]



1/2. I'm not saying Claridge should be cut, only that I would not be shocked if a 5th rounder got cut after a year on IR. This board tends to way overrate potential when it's the Pats. I never said Sanders was in danger and do not think so.

You asked about 5th rounders seeing little playing time under BB. How about some of these:

In 2001, after Seymour in the first round, further picks include: Jabari Holloway (4th), Hakim Akbar (5th).

In 2002, I believe there were no 5th or 6th rounders.

In 2003, Kingsbury was a 6th rounder.

In 2004, PK Sam (5th) and Cedric Cobbs (4th). Remember all the talk about how great they were going to be? Both got cut after one season and little playing time.

2005 was a small draft class. With 7 DBs on IR, no surprise that Sanders got some playing time.

3/4. I was wrong about Hill being a high 2 -- he was a low 2, but that is still a fairly high draft pick. How long is a project?

I certainly understand how many injuries Pats have had, but doesn't that mean it is MORE likely Hill would have gotten playing time if he had great potential? I did not count snaps, but Mike Wright seemed to get more time last year than Hill.

5. We'll see on Izzo. Seemes like every year we bring in special teams guys. Last year Mallard was one.

6. I do not think it's an either/or situation for Childress and Johnson. But I liked what little I saw of Childress and like the 2-way potential. Johnson has had obvious issues in performance and attitude.

 

[RayClay]

I wouldn't think Gorin and Hochstein are safe.

We have 2 massive tackles in O'Callaghan and Britt.

And don't forget versatile Ross Tucker. Very experienced at 26, he could make Hochstein quite bubbly.

The Pats will end up cutting some talented OLinemen for a change.

 

[bucky]

Bucky - Nice to know that you don't do your homework too well. Cedric Cobbs and PK Sam BOTH saw game time with the Patriots. Williams was IRed for 2 years straight in TRAINING CAMP. Different situation entirely. Examples should have been players of 5th round or HIGHER who were cut in their 1st season. NONE of the examples you offered qualify.

Izzo was not very good last year and he was tied for the lead in special teams tackles or maybe had 1 more than Michael Stone did. And Stone played in less games. And the coverage teams have been mediocre at best the last 2 years. And, yes, a 32 year old Tebucky, who hasn't lost his speed and hitting ability as a gunner, is an UPGRADE on the coverage units.

Yes, Cobbs saw some time - garbage time. But he was cut because he was injured and didn't do squat in his soph TC. Not because of anything he did on the field. PK Sam didn't get any time as a rookie. And Brock Williams was in the exact same predicament as Claridge is right now. He was on the IR as a rookie and was on the sidelines for the following TC. That was enough for BB. So those are ALL precedents for the possibility of Claridge being cut, which is what you were asking for. If he comes into TC, pulls a hammy or something like that and sits out most of TC, he's gone. Which pretty much puts him on the bubble - which was the point of the original thread.

As for Tebucky being an upgrade as a gunner, that's possible and I wouldn't argue that because I didn't watch Tebucky play last year. I do know that he's not a very popular guy with his coaches and Saban - who values ST as much as BB - didn't care about having him on his team. Your statement about Tebucky not losing any speed shows how full of crap you are because you can't possibly know that. Certainly your argument about Izzo's age doesn't support your argument about Tebucky's speed very well, considering they're the same exact age.

Regardless of all that, Tebucky can't be an upgrade over Izzo because they don't even play the same position. You just like to hear yourself argue.

 

[DaBruinz]

1/2. I'm not saying Claridge should be cut, only that I would not be shocked if a 5th rounder got cut after a year on IR. This board tends to way overrate potential when it's the Pats. I never said Sanders was in danger and do not think so.

You asked about 5th rounders seeing little playing time under BB. How about some of these:

In 2001, after Seymour in the first round, further picks include: Jabari Holloway (4th), Hakim Akbar (5th).

In 2002, I believe there were no 5th or 6th rounders.

In 2003, Kingsbury was a 6th rounder.

In 2004, PK Sam (5th) and Cedric Cobbs (4th). Remember all the talk about how great they were going to be? Both got cut after one season and little playing time.

2005 was a small draft class. With 7 DBs on IR, no surprise that Sanders got some playing time.

Actually, I asked which player wasn't given a chance to play under Belichick. I didn't ask which 5th rounders saw little playing time. There is a difference.

Jabari Holloway was cut during training camp in his second year.

Akbar played 6 games for the Pats in 2001 before ending up on the IR. He was cut in TC the next season if I remember correctly.

Kingsbury was on the IR his rookie year and cut during the next training camp.

Both Cobbs and PK Sam saw playing time in their rookie seasons. Sam was on the practice squad for his 2nd year. Cobbs was cut at the end of training camp in 2005 and then signed with the Broncos.

Not sure that I would call 7 guys drafted a "SMALL" draft class. Also, since you need reminding, Sanders made the team out of training camp. There were no injuries coming out of TC. So, that tells me that Sanders was going to see playing time. Also, Sanders played special teams. And the Pats needed special teams players since they had gotten rid of Reid.

3/4. I was wrong about Hill being a high 2 -- he was a low 2, but that is still a fairly high draft pick. How long is a project?

Well, according to Belichick, projects are at least 3 years if the player continues to show improvement. Obviously, Hill seeing time in 8 games this year, though he only had 3 tackles, is a sign, to me anyways, that he is improving. But he's still the #4 DE behind Seymour, Green and Warren.

I certainly understand how many injuries Pats have had, but doesn't that mean it is MORE likely Hill would have gotten playing time if he had great potential? I did not count snaps, but Mike Wright seemed to get more time last year than Hill.

You really don't like makins sense, do you? Where have a majority of the injuries been the last 2 years? At Cornerback and at Linebacker. That being the case, how would it mean that Hill was MORE likely to get playing time? It doesn't. In fact, he's not likely to get playing time when there are LBs and CBs getting injured, regardless of his potential.

5. We'll see on Izzo. Seemes like every year we bring in special teams guys. Last year Mallard was one.

They also ended up bringing in Michael Stone after Mallard failed.

6. I do not think it's an either/or situation for Childress and Johnson. But I liked what little I saw of Childress and like the 2-way potential. Johnson has had obvious issues in performance and attitude.

Well, that may be. However, I don't believe the Pats are going to carry 6 WRs this year. Branch and Jackson are the only two who are guaranteed a spot on the team. However, I do believe that Caldwell and Brown have the inside track on 2 of the other spots. That leaves McGrew, Musinski, Childress, Johnson, John Stone, and whomever else they have in camp at WR.